LaMartine

and i never found that interesting to talk about. Never was interested in Manson or references of him, but that's what American's do and talking about Manson isn't prohibited like talking about Harvey isn't prohibited just to remind you. But talking about having a consensual relationship with him now that he's a known rapist/harasser, and that many women for 30 years were afraid to come off as liars because rape culture makes the song embarrassing. Not the same thing that censorship is. All these women (and others) stayed shut because relationships with moguls were portrayed like in that song: it's their fault, they were the instigators, they wanted the jewels, the favours and to become famous, they started it, and thus they are lying about being raped. It furthers a toxic culture and lana is seeing it's doing more harm than good and she doesn't like it anymore. She doesn't like it, but y'all don't want to understand that. It will probably take her some time to start seeing things differently. But if you're going to be like this and belittle me because I don't agree with you, all right. But you can't dump all examples into one mold and then talk about double standards.

i'm not gonna quote everything you say and answer in full, I'm just gonna say that I don't see everything in black and white I don't apply moral calvinism for what is right and what is wrong, neither do I believe the 60s to be the beacon of what is le bon gôut. I never said sexual harassment was worse than murders, unfortunately those women, men and children who were:are harassed find i more difficult to come out: a lot of these women have claimed that their managers instead of protecting them pushed them to harvey saying that he was a scary guy and of they could survive a meeting with him they were strong and could survive anything. These people because of the culture got used to be treated like victims, and the abuse and rape has become something that had to be endured because that's the way of the business. Harvey was a bully and was also somewhat close to Lana. For me, this doesn't even compare to the 60s murders, it's a different league of affair completely that I see through to new lenses. Lana has written a song that was supposed to be ironic and fun about a mogul preying on women and doing the fast life, she also quoted the crystals line "he hit me and it felt like a kiss". Both songs, UV and and Cola, feature things that Lana has grown out of and doesn't want to perform anymore. It's like most of us who cringe at stuff we said and did 4 years ago except that for her it's released songs. So what, she wants to take it out?? She's needs time or she's acquiring a new perspective? I don't remember myself or people on this forum throwing stones at her tbh. I just believe that an artist who decides to take something off is mostly for personal reasons like growth, doubt and etc not just for fear mongering and censorship like y'all are implying. And an Artist should be free to take back what they said and change their opinions. Cola is a song that heavily implied Harvey and featured a starlet that was very eager to be in a relationship with him despite the public opinion and "his wife". And now lana realises that that stuff isn't funny anymore, because what was really happening were a plethora of women getting harassed and getting raped. The song that heavily implied Harvey, someone she knew, wasn't the same song anymore. And now, if i may add, with time she can change the lyric and take back her song, that's what i believe. Would that even happen? It's like you don't wan to see how things are supposed to be seen individually and not all dumped in the same bucket, she's not singing about murdering celebrities/people for a current manson figure. She was singing about being in a consensual scandalous relationship with a man-figure she knew very well and now turns out to be a rapist/harasser and she's taking it back. But I don't think we will ever agree on things because we really don't see things the same way.

if it wasn't for you sis, doing the god's work and already saying what i thought, i would have probably written an essay i have to constantly practice restraint

I love this @@vodkaa, i'll keep it short tho. the song is cute and the instrumental is gorgeous on its own but I still think Lana and Abel should have been capable of coming up with better, at least in terms of execution. I still don't fully understand what she wanted to convey in this track, since in the video she seems to put down a black notebook before getting up and dance with death/the edge lord/the weeknd, anyway if this wasn't the title track and if lana had made more videos I would like it more. Lana and Abel singing in a high register is something of a for me, i prefer her spoken word and his "secrets" voice.

I don't agree with you, I actually think time changes perspective on things. What is general culture and what is hot piping current events are two different things, this is why people say "it's too soon". I am personally more affected by the Harvey Weinstein claims because i'm a young woman soon to be thrust into the workforce, 1960s sociopathic sex cults and murderers don't affect me the same way even tho they were horrific. They have relevance today and have been analysed/talked about enough that time allows for an artist to quickly cite them in their body of work; I'm not against Lana talking about dark themes and in fact there are elements of pedophilia , female subjugation/objectification that ring true and grounds her art in real life. And historically artists have always referred to the past to make a point about the present rather than use what is going on if it's sensitive and there's censorship. And I believe that an artist censoring themselves isn't losing, a good and mature artist probably is capable of getting their point across differently. Like think about "The Betrothed", the novel by A. Manzoni: it's considered one of the main opuses of italian literature, the first italian modern novel and the first one to use modern italian. It was written when the country was under foreign (Austrian) occupation and it was strictly forbidden to talk negatively about the regimen but "lucky for him" Italy has already been occupied different times by other nations. Manzoni "pretended" (everyone knew it was a bluff/not real/jocking) that he found a manuscript in an attic about a romance and updated the language for current readers. But the book isn't just about that, (not only it tackles themes of human psyche and morality) it's about living under Spanish occupation, how it means for a country and its functioning and how it affects every strata of a society; and more importantly it was absolutely a critique of the "current" austrian occupation and somewhat a pamphlet for a free country. A lot of artists flirt between what is acceptable and what is taboo, and it is a widespread belief that time changes perspectives, there's no strict rule to how handle events except of what the general population think. It may not seem logical for some but it is for me, I understand that if we cared, we will always have to deal to what is average/acceptable by popular standards. And maybe it upsets lana personally how someone she knew was harassing maybe raping so many women, when something makes you this uncertain then you take it out until you can articulate your feelings better and you (and in this case) society have/s healed.Also the crimes aren't even the same, sexual harassment and murder aren't the same. Murder victims are cold dead and sexual harassment victims have a hard time to be heard to be believed ,that's why it's delicate; and this is just to see things one way before i write a novel about that too. I mean I don't really know much about the philosophy of passing of time, but if I did i think I would do a better job at expressing myself because Time allows for things to become from personal to belonging and available to everyone. So if you can't see how things can change when time passes we will never agree. Anyway in a broad sense I expect an artist to be smart about their art, not everything should be spoon fed in a low context matter where everything is super direct, and artist also have the ability to change their opinions. Lana had a some time to process the weinstein matter, by the time this interview happened a lot of articles talked about "cola" specifically so she knew what everyone was thinking. She made the decision to take it off, and probably she discussed that with the interviewer beforehand that's why it seems she's heavily suggesting. Just because an artist seems to "cater" and to "self-censor" doesn't always mean it's a bad thing. They are people too and when new information arrives they also need the time and take a step back to think about this on a greater perspective and scale, this is how people continue on learning and maturing.

i don't give him any credit whatsoever, from what we have noticed since the elections, trump: doesn't have the ability to have empathy feel remorse or grief always thinks he is right about everything and he can do no matter what doesn't have the ability to know what is right from wrong even when it's basic knowledge doesn't ever learn about his experience and that's also a problem for his administration, it's like we're in a loop where we've been through this over and over i'm not coming at you sis, not at all; you're not wrong. i'm just saying that instead of being a person who actually has built confidence over the years and has toughen up, all he has that works for him are traits of a character disorder and he's keeping us hostages. At least he grew up super rich and isn't very smart? Because if he were capable of learning maybe he'd look like a proper president and he'd fuck the world even harder but even in that case you can notice what is wrong and see through to his impairments. the only good thing about this shit show is probably that the some of worse people are showing their cards, he's allowing some people to be their ugly self in public (not everyone, there are still other people "smart" enough not to come out about their bad behaviour and such). But that's positive if you are a privileged person living here who is actually from the future and hangs around us because they need to understand what the f has happened for their thesis on human behaviour and the relation with the political condition they are groomed in. Or just an historian who want to know what really is going on.

about that, i've wanted to post this on the unpopular lana opinions for some time but laziness: if fmwuttt is to lorde, i'm not comfortable with lana calling an underage brazen girl a whore and i don't even like Lorde

i think it's because it's not an abstract theme you can "comfortably" quote rn? manson and jonestown were specific events that happened decades ago and are used often as reference in general culture, like dropping a bar like "she eat your heart out like Jeffrey Dahmer" in a pop song. And pedofelia is a dark theme, but she uses a renowned classic novel to draw the imagery not a recent case? I think like in 5/10 years it's going to be the same for Weinstein, his name won't be just *His* but it's going to be a label for that kind of behaviour and people will name drop him too as the hollywood mogul executive who preyed on women but rn because of him a lot of people are coming out about their experience, and not just women: men and (former) child stars. So it's delicate because it involves people and eventual new voices. And I agree about the suggestive interview, altho it could have been planned in advance? I don't know if they still do that but the girl interviewing her was really cognisant about lana's body of work and they both seemed comfortable, maybe they reviewed the points they were going to talk about before to give structure to the interview. The Harvey thing is super delicate as I said previously, so I don't think Lana would talk about it without working on her statement before hand.

What did you notice, sleuth?

she reminds me of my mom, not in a good way: she always has her phone in her hands while she's on the wheel it drives me insane because i worry

okay i admit that these last three episodes i've been mainly hate watching, i genuinely believe every character is so very dumb and it's annoying me i have a problem with ryan murphy as a writer or whomever pens these concepts, i thought that maybe i should have more of a sense of humour watching this so i can get closure on it and appreciate the actors a bit more. lena dunham is so grating, i can't stand her and hearing her voice but at least if she's out there with her irritating self then anyone should be confident enough to make it i actually have so many issues but i'm extra and there's not enough time, i'll check brooklyn nine nine to relieve myself from the tension

i mean we should let some time pass at least, to respect the victims. Maybe in 5 years or so she'll reclaim the song and change the lyrics like "And I was in the sky with [...] making me crazy" which still works. If a lot of fans ask for it it could be possible, but for the moment it's better to take it off

i'm glad now that cola doesn't have a mv, it would have been a mess

that guy on the video looked like my philosophy teacher in high school, i got scared cause i thought it was him for a sec

i checked the video and there's actually a subtitles button on it, can you see it? i don't know if the subs are 100% correct but it should help you from how i fast forward-it it's pretty accurate this is such a cute interview, i love it!! some of the things we knew already but it's nice that i can see her acknowledging it like her coming full circle, i feel we've been on a journey and there was an actual ongoing story and character development. that really is legendary, i love her so much for it. and the set design for her tour sounds interesting i'm glad lana is thinking all this through and i'm super excited for a technicolor mv it's all i'm asking for. give me glorious eastman kodak 35mm, just thinking about it my celluloid seams are thriving

it's a bit unrelated but it kinda reminds me of the breaking glass sounds from the BAR demo, could be even the same effect

people have stated that this era was dead many times but i have seriously enjoyed it a lot (it's also the only era i actually followed so my judgment is flawed, still)

I would stan lana even if she recycles UV footage because that shit would be hiLLArious at this point

yeah i thought the same, visuals are nice but there's no clear plot and it drags

i was living my life and video games was on tv while i was dealing with my parents, tbh that was right around when i left home (circa 2011). I remember I was distracted by the americana vhs imagery and her voice was beautiful but i didn't have time for that sort of thing if it makes sense. was super busy and stressed. Then some years later I was cruising the guardian as you do for my english class studies in current affairs/politics and there was a review of lana with a high score but the way it was written was a bit cynical and guarded.. so i listened to ultraviolence on Deezer and i got 100% hooked on Cruel World. Then every single song on UV. I mean i knew it was iconic: CW, UV, SoC, BB and when West Coast ended i had to take a break because it was so awesome. I mean I heard SS several times when you hang around at the bar and maybe once at the club and her voice was always nice. But Uv was what turned me into a stan , and then I tried to find all of her unreleased.

did no one notice the THEY'RE BURNING ALL THE WITCHES tags on 3:17?? I took a screenshot too but i'm too lazy to upload it. I mean, say what? Is Lana in trouble? Anyway I watched it once and I'm probably wrong but is she killing herself? The visuals look like they are nodding to assassin creed and i don't know anything about that so i don't get that reference, if there is one. I thought the video was like in a loop and can't really understand how it advances. So i'll probably make leaps and say taylor swift is trapped and naked? and she likes pretty stuff like white horses and she's trying to get rid of dark taylor that she created but doesn't represent her accurately to the media. I have no idea.

here i'm more interested about the production value of the mv and how she handles being active once again, because taylor is really putting herself out there with the ambitious visuals and references. I try to be neutral about her even tho i can't get into her voice and the songs all together the lwymmd was extremely rich, but the texture isn't something i like a lot and i'm not turned on when visuals are very produced still i'm curious

she said she'll be posting news next month right? not months, if i'm hearing correctly. We will have new videos and we haven't even been sooned

it's not that deep, it goes both ways. people are actually looking into the lyrics on this thread for once

the main way of talking about this subject without being problematic is probably by saying nothing, but this is a forum not a court. If lana today were to reveal that there were some non consensual dealings going on and she felt intimidated and etc (god i hope it didn't happen) then NO-ONE in the right mind on here would say that she's lying because of the little we actually know about her; no-one. we would believe her and support her. Other than that there were pictures and articles published dating back from 2012/2013/2014 about harvey and lana and people are just speculating. Just that, it doesn't mean people are victim blaming. But I gotta garee that the way it's often phrased it sounds like it but it's mostly conjecture not challenging an eventual coming out. Lana like any other celebrity could have been a victim, maybe she was maybe she wasn't. rn this story has been covered several times by national newspapers and mags online, even here... it's a shame that her name had to be attached with this monster at this moment.