Taco Truck x VB

I just cannot envision her making a really good album again after love+fear & ancient dreams. Like it just feels so far outside the realm of possibility, which is so sad. 
 

Poor Marina, I don't think she will return to her old days. 
 
She kinda tried with Ancient Dreams but she fucking ruined it with the whole political and woke edge. 

To be honest I agree that LF is somewhat better than AD. They are quite different so a bit hard to
properly compare but AD is quite cringe and forced as @Embach said. 
 
and I must say that I like the fact that she is political as artists should be political and should take a stance and should make comments on our environment and future as society. However, she just does a very very shitty job at it. It’s the level of a 16 year old kid that gets all its opinions from reddit and twitter. 
 
even Lana’s attempts at political comment have not been the best but in my opinion Looking for America and WWTWTWTWTWTWD are miles better than whatever purge the poison’s lyrics are

very controversial take but why can i see where youre coming from?
I will say i think LF aged better than ADIAML (and that pains me because i despise like 70% of LF but have been streaming it more). I think ADIAML is more reminiscent of her old self in the fact the thing is fucking everywhere like my emotions but LF is a more 'mature' album. Sure, some of it is awful (orange trees and messing up them fuckin towels) but for the most part it is written better in the sense that the political lyrics (literally none except tbh) and observations don't make me wanna gag?
Although ILYBILMM i will defend til the end 
 
my reply is so bad sorry but im just thinking and typing at the same time lols 

Also since this thread came back from the dead and as a long time Marina stan I want to post my unpopular opinion and it's very very VERY controversial and long 
 
Love + Fear album > Ancient Dreams album.
 
I know that these albums are definitely not her strongest work but I find Ancient Dreams worse than L+F. 
 
When Ancient Dreams was released, it was my new favorite Marina album, I was so hyped and I loved every song on the album, I played it non-stop, especially Venus Fly Trap and the title track. But after a long break of not listening to this album (+ when the deluxe tracks dropped) - I found that album extreamely cringe  like that album did not age well for me. 
 
The whole album seems so prententious for me now and very forced. In fact it was forced. When Marina saw the hate comments about L+F she did kind of force herself into her "old sound" (because fans wanted her to do it) but in my opinion it didn't really work out well. It sounded more of a "parody" of her old sound imo.
 
Like she has done that disco-rock/dance-rock/electro-pop rock/synth-pop/new wave sound (or whatever it is called) like million times, she could've explored new genres instead, like folk, soul, triphop, soft/psychedelic rock, not redo that electronic sound or oompah-oompah piano songs.
 
And the lyrics have become so awkward and clunky, not only the political songs which sounded like a novelty tracks but the break-up songs were even more awkward. Goodbye used to be my favorite song from Ancient until I relistened to it and realised how cringe it is, it's like a song written by a high-school student for a musical or a play. And I think the same about other break-up songs on the album too  
 
The only good song from Ancient Dreams is Highly Emotional People, and I think it's the best song from the album.
 
Love + Fear was also very clunky and awkward in terms of lyrics like for example in No More Suckers and Enjoy Your Life but the album was just lacklustre and boring and lyrically/sonically too simple and plain. It wasn't really that pretentious and awkward as Ancient Dreams was. It was obvious that this album wasn't that strong lyrically/sonically because she had been away from music for few years. I don't think that L+F had a forced sound because it was just the "aftermath" of the environment Marina was living in (her hiatus, her then bf with Clean Bandit and the psychology courses). If the reception from her fans was less harsh and if Covid didn't happen, I think she would have moved on to a whole new level in music, like a new genre and theme. Like when Taylor transitioned from Lover era to Folklore/Evermore.
 
Imo, her holy trinity will forever be her first three albums, because these were a perfect trilogy of her life and her mindset. The concepts of those albums were perfectly executed, especially Electra Heart's which was just brilliant. Now I think she has a writer block or I think she doesn't have anything "fundamental" to write about because everything she wanted to say, was said in The Family Jewels, Electra Heart and Froot. And you can see it in L+F and Ancient Dreams that these two albums are very different from her first three.
 
My favorite album of hers is Froot and song Froot too. I think it's a perfect pop album and perfect pop song.
 
I also think that she's not an alternative artist. She has always been pop for me. Maybe the early era of TFJ was alternative with Mermaid Vs Sailor EP and that's it.
 
I currently prefer her poetry to Ancient Dreams because I think the "awkward political/societal wordiness" looks better in poetry than in songs.
 
I knowww that my opinion I stated here was very very very harsh but it was already very difficult for me to state too because I have loved her music since 2010 and I love Marina herself very much. But this was just my insight and no one obviously doesn't have to take my opinion seriously. I just had to say it and this forum was the best place for it 

She needs to pull through with her next album. Ancient dreams was definitely an upgrade from love + fear, but I’m starting to loose faith in her music. I still enjoy her new work but it seriously lacks in comparison to her first three albums

This is painfully true. Even when people bashed on COCC and BB, they were not cringey albums. I listen to them more than BTD to be honest. Lana's music never felt cheap surprisingly, and that is one of the many reasons why I enjoy her music. Even her pick-me era songs are just cute now that I listen to them after many years. But I simply cannot take Marina's music seriously since Ancient. Ancient had so much potential but ruined with lackluster lyrics and absolutely no insight to the world/community. I will never forget the first time I listented to PtP.. the lyrics... They sound like an elementary school poetry contest.. We know Marina's potentials with her first three albums, I wonder what is blocking her from all that honesty and creativity. Miss her a lot.

The only song I don't really enjoy on Froot is Blue  
I think overall MARINA albums are actually cohesive somehow, even if they explore different genres like Froot did.
 
And forgive me but I'm so attached to L+F because the outtakes are miles better than most of the released tracks + it was the first album release I experienced as a fan but I see why people don't enjoy it much - is a mess lmao.
 
I really hope to see more Ancient-esque production in her further work (title track, Venus Fly Trap, Goodbye, Highly Emotional People, Man's World have beautiful productions imo), but she definitely has to step up her songwriting game - I can't believe this is the same woman who wrote the Froot album on her own. Maybe some peer-review would work? Or she could write and let it rest to come back and rework the lyrics idk. I hope M6 will be an incredible album, fingers crossed.

she needs to dip her hand back into the froot-bowl (aka one of the best albums of all time) because the half baked and pretentious ‘self-aware’ lyrics are unlistenable atp

I think Froot is also loved for the sentiment. It kinda felt like a full circle moment for Marina and her fans. The roll out of the album was great (with the froot of the month), she made the album on her own, she made peace with no going fully commercial & lyrically Happy is a song that adds to the full circle moment of Marina being in a happier place herself. 

Overall I've always ranked the albums like: TFJ > EH > Froot > ADIAMW > L&F
TFJ & EH are musically really really good, putting TFJ is because I personally enjoy the more indie/newwave sound over the full pop.
Froot has some really high peaks with the title track & Happy, but also has some skips (weeds, better than that, gold). The lyrics and music seems to become a bit more basic than her first two albums
ADIAMW has actually less skips but is a little bit on the nose with the lyrics at times. But I don't dislike any of the songs on there.
L&F is just basic pop. Handmade heaven, To be human & End of the earth are nice. The other songs ain't terrible, it's just not on the same level as her other work. 

Me thinking that there would just be a companion EP titled "Vegetables"

I still feel most people don't get that the "you" who can "do better than that" in the song is not Ellie but the man Marina is singing to. 

This is AI sis

To Be Human is still a beautiful song

angelina jolie?
 

a fan in this thread is clearly suffering from post lobotomy syndrome

I don't really understand the placebo analogy you're trying to make but I feel like you can't compare fake luxury to music 
 
A lot of people say unreleased versions are better because people don't have expectations when it comes to unreleased songs, as for released songs they should be technically be good but since Lana has so many great unreleased songs it's easy to compare...
 
I remember when Nectar of the Gods leaked I thought it was amazing and deserved a release, and it was amazing for an unreleased song... it's still a concept demo and it shouldn't have been released as a concept demo if you get what I mean.
 
When it comes to BAR and TNBAR, BAR was already a fully complete song intended for released but scrapped at the last minute due to unfortunate circumstances set on by active LanaBoards member, I would be lying if I said TNBAR wasn't a far more lazy version of BAR, but I don't mind either version. Fans were also used to the BAR version as they were with Thunder so to like something they're familiar with more is not as strange as you're making it out to be.
 
It all comes down to quality at the end of the day, some songs are perfect unreleased songs and some released songs just aren't up to par. That being said, I would have probably LOVED Chemtrails / BB if it were unreleased for the sole reason they're not up to par with the rest of her discography (my opinion of course..) but I always look at things through the bigger picture, it's not just a black and white conversation or "placebo", theres many factors to consider and everyone has different interests. 

i mentioned it in my earlier post, but it could be recency-bias, whatever is new will be more exciting for our minds, also, regarding demos with different sounds leaking, it's sort've like a "the grass is greener on the other side" kind of phenomenon, when a demo of a song leaks and it's noticeably different, it makes us think of what could've been, but at the same time, i think some people can just listen to a demo/earlier iteration of a song and maybe just prefer it, especially when it's very, very different, like pink champagne, or lust for life (demo 1) i don't think that means there's some psychological effect there, it's been over 3 years since the first lust for life demo leaked and i still prefer it over the album version (i still like the album version though)

i’m suffering from unreleased withdrawal
someone leak paradise pls

i know for thunder the production was actually reworked which completely changed the song for me. i like the roughness of the demo even if it wasn't meant to be heard yet. also nothing can convince me that pink champagne isn't miles ahead lmlylaw

Architecture and Pink Champagne are two that I can objectively say have better lyrics than their released counterparts. 

I didn't know what to name the thread but recently online on YouTube and IG I have noticed what I call 'Unreleased Syndrome'. It is similar to the placebo effect or other behaviors that examine people reacting to false information. 
 
My first example would be Architecture. When it leaked the reception from fans online was very positive and had people looking forward to the album. Now that it is released in its final format, fans say they like the unreleased version better. 
 
Another example is the Venice Bitch demo she released. I have noticed the same attitude toward the demo version being better than final. A lot of times I read on YouTube and here "this should've replaced the released version." When Black Beauty was released I remember many fans expressing their disappointment with the released version. 
 
So now at this point, I think a lot of the sentiment toward unreleased music being "better" is because of what I'm calling Unreleased Syndrome. Essentially because fans see that a song is unreleased, they become under the impression any variant of the song afterward is inferior. In reality the released version is better or would've been actually more liked among fans if she kept it unreleased in favor of the released version. 
 
A contemporary example is this prank. Basically the prank had low quality shoes masked as high end, designer shoes. Because people assigned a certain quality to the items they can be heard calling the shoes "high quality" when in reality they were from Payless. Below is the video.
 
 
The funny thing about this experiment is that the opposite placements would have had the same effect. If people walked into a designer store masked as a off-brand store, they would probably not notice the higher quality of the designer garments. Similarly fans can dismiss (mistake) the high quality released music for lower quality music as they can hear the unreleased versions. 
 
I would be interested for there to be some kind of study where 100 Lana fans listened to two versions of a song (unreleased then released) and picked which one they liked better versus 100 Lana non-fans. I honestly believe the non-fan group would choose the released versions each time, or it would be 50/50, because they are unbiased.
 
I think there are so many factors as to why this happens. I think the driving factor is the human instinct to go "What if...?" in many situations when it is unreasonable. I think there is something else called Impression Bias where people are less likely to identify a positive choice when surrounded by other negative choices. But maybe some users here can better explain some of the elements at play. This is not exclusive to Lana fans... I think it very common in a lot of media whether it be film, video games or other musicians. 
 
Have you ever suffered from Unreleased Syndrome? What do you think on this phenomenon? 
 
Wikipedia article detailing Soviet nostalgia linked below. I was reminded of Surf Noir's comment about recency bias. It's worth a read in the context of this conversation. 
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostalgia_for_the_Soviet_Union

the update nobody asked for
 
i found her in the little bag with free toiletries they gave us on the flight  i remember i put her in there for safe keeping so she didnt get lost
 
but i have now spent $70 on another necklace i do not need 

I think it got lost in the tunnel under ocean blvd 
 
Manifesting this omg. I wanted the boob vinyl soooo bad and now I’m gonna have to try not to get scammed on Discogs in order to get it