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Probably unpopular and I have yet to hear BB in full, but… 

To appreciate Chemtrails better, you should listen to it in the fall, when the weather is cooling down a bit and your « regular life » is on full mode. All the songs that I didn’t listen to as much this summer (Dance Till We Die, Wild at Heart, Let Me Love You Like a Woman and For Free) sound much more « fuller » and not as « watered down » as I felt in the spring. And well, it’s not as surprising since this album is mainly a reflection on her craft and falls are usually synonymous of going back to work, so I think that why the songs hit differently. 
As for BB, I’m sure I’ll love it no matter when it comes out, but the themes of healing, the whole « cabin feeling » of the album, the thunderstorms and the black bathing suit situation seem to be better fitting in the spring. 

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12 minutes ago, GeminiLanaFan said:

Same! I always saw her songs as « a capture in time », expressing how she was feeling at that moment. In a society that negates « negative » feelings, she is a breath of fresh air. It’s important to acknowledge when we feel sad / shitty / unappreciated and not bottle those up and her music is therapeutic in that way, by helping me acknowledge and better understand how I feel. That being said, the only album of her that can « depress » me is UV in the middle of winter, with my mild seasonal depression, when I listen to it from cover to cover: I have to listen to it sparsely. 

 

It's kinda weird how society is so selective on who can sing about negative feelings, what negative feelings are aloud to be expressed while singing about hypersexuality is completely safe because it's hedonistic and because everyone and their grandma sings about sex. 

For example, Kurt Cobain could sing about anything, even rape, and would be praised because he's Kurt, while Lana is that 'depressing' SNL girl that sings about Lolita and domestic violence. Reminds me how Courtney Love's music was completely overlooked by her being a social climber, allegedly killing Kurt and, most importantly, being a woman in a misogynistic rock n roll scene. 


I'm fucking crazy, but I'm free 

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18 hours ago, Sportscruiser said:

 

I got so interested in this thread that I went way back and really sinked my teeth in everybody’s opinions.

 

I’ve stated before that I personally disagree with a good chunk of your posts (respectfully so!) but I can’t deny they’re always intriguing and interesting to read. This one in particular kinda voiced what I thought about Blue Banisters (the track) when I heard it for the first time. I have no issue with the direction Lana is taking in her songwriting. It’s ultimately her decision and I support it as a fan but I feel like in between LFL and NFR she found herself in the middle of a crossroad and whatever direction she would pursue would have a price to be paid: she could either stay in the lane she carved from BTD to Honeymoon (elusive, more vague storytelling and an abundant use of metaphors and symbolic imagery) but risk not being taken seriously as en evolving musician and songwriter OR she would deepen her storytelling by bringing up more personal and intimate details into her writing and lose her mysticism and mystery during the process. I think it’s clear which path she chose and it’s even clearer the price she paid for it.

 

I take NFR (my favorite album of hers alongside Honeymoon) as the perfect middle point between both directions. In that album she managed to convey more intricate lyricism but used it to paint a broader, bigger picture - take songs like The Greatest or Bartender: full of concise and direct references and feelings that relate to her pessimistic views on everything that surrounds her; it felt like her persona as LDR was crumbling down as she tried to get a grasp on the surrounding reality that itself was also falling apart almost in an apocalyptical kind of way. That she managed to combine such a personal, antics-free posture with her known tendency to approach certain subjects with mystery and enough vagueness that made her songs more universal (a good example of this being How To Disappear - an excellent take on male toxicity and how bottling up one’s feelings eventually manifests in violence, emotional impotence and makes people disappear into themselves) is exactly what makes NFR such a potent album in my opinion. She preserved her persona but made it more accessible without risking the entirety of its mysticism and allure. A very very delicate line to tread on but she did it beautifully and that’s probably why NFR appealed to such a wide range of people, from her diehard stans to newfound fans and even people who use to be indifferent/critical of her.

 

COCC is a strange beast. It doesn’t quite expand on a lot of things she approached on NFR but instead it looks inward; I feel like it’s an album about isolation and emotional inertia. It doesn’t sound as bombastic and fiery as NFR and it’s a lot more discreet and timid. Even in that album there was still some mystery to her more diaristic songs: in WD her vocal delivery really transports the song to an aching realization she was probably happier and freer in the past and by opening up the album with such a strong lyrical and vocal contrast really makes the song sound very intriguing and alluring. I could say the same thing about COCC itself and perhaps even WAH, NAWWAL and BUS. However, tracks like DTWD, DBJAG and TJF were a lot more specific to certain events, certain people, certain occurrences. Couple that with her increasingly polarizing social media presence and her entire mystique is gone. You no longer ask who is she or what does she mean by whatever she says in her songs. At this point you know exactly what she’s referring to and can even pinpoint in a calendar the time stamps in which she met Sean and later broke up with him and the same can be said about Clay.

 

She has insisted regularly that the previous claims throughout her career that would suggest she feigned emotional authenticity and romanticized abuse and violence in relationships really took a toll on her. Ironically enough, the widespread acclaim of NFR must also have contributed to the opposite of vindication and led her to realize she was never going to be accepted as a fragile, submissive woman - the industry wants a hardened, more emotionally self-sufficient version of herself. You would think this could cause her to return to her old BTD/UV/HM days but that’s practically impossible at this point: with QFTC and everything that happened ever since, she completely shed her persona to pieces and her desire to further dive in to her past won’t restore any type of mysticism or unpredictability; that’s why we get such specific, almost diary-like entries in her songwriting these days: it feels like this her way to reclaim her narrative even though that will inevitably make her change a lot as an artist.

 

I love her songwriting in general but I can’t possibly pretend I relate to tracks like BB or TB as a whole; the power of Lana for me was the fact that even from very different life experiences she managed to draw universal feelings (many of them ugly and scary) that you could easily and deeply relate to. It’s not like she didn’t lose that ability completely (WW still wrecks me to this day and I relate to a good portion of it) and she doesn’t necessarily have to do it but she’s of course risking losing a part of her fanbase. Does she care though?

 

I’ll wait until BB is released. I have a feeling the album has something up its sleeve that we’re not quite ready for. It might be a determinant career step for her in a few ways though. Let’s see where she goes from here.

 

Btw apologies for the long ass testament and I’m sorry if my English isn’t the best. I hope y’all have a great Sunday! :)

I really like your take on the subject of her lyricism !

I really think that she is indeed in a place where she seems to not know what the next step for her is ( or at least that's how i feel after COCC and now with BB ) . 

I think that her more diary-like lyrics can be a hit or miss when it comes to making music and not poetry . I find that with some of her songs you really dive in her thoughts and feelings about a situation ( like in WFWF or TB ) but the catch is that the song might lack in the parts of musicality. For example i find the opening of the song Arcadia to be really good but when we reach the part of : ''All roads that lead to you as integral to me as arteries '' and also towards the end of the song it feels like it's separated in two different parts even though it's the same song. I don't know how to properly explain it but i feel like there is a lack of cohesion between the musical and lyrical aspect . But that's only my opinion , because even though TB is wordy as well in it's lyrical aspect , i think that it doesn't lack musically and that it flows really well. 

 

( English is not my first language as well so i hope what i've written makes sense :toofunny: )

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56 minutes ago, Deadly Nightshade said:

I really like your take on the subject of her lyricism !

I really think that she is indeed in a place where she seems to not know what the next step for her is ( or at least that's how i feel after COCC and now with BB ) . 

I think that her more diary-like lyrics can be a hit or miss when it comes to making music and not poetry . I find that with some of her songs you really dive in her thoughts and feelings about a situation ( like in WFWF or TB ) but the catch is that the song might lack in the parts of musicality. For example i find the opening of the song Arcadia to be really good but when we reach the part of : ''All roads that lead to you as integral to me as arteries '' and also towards the end of the song it feels like it's separated in two different parts even thought it's the same song. I don't know how to properly explain it but i feel like there is a lack of cohesion between the musical and lyrical aspect . But that's only my opinion , because even though TB is wordy as well in it's lyrical aspect , i think that it doesn't lack musically and that it flows really well. 

 

( English is not my first language as well so i hope what i've written makes sense :toofunny: )

 

Thank you for your feedback!

 

And I definitely agree with your on all accounts. I’m critical of the BLM inclusion in TB and even though it’s not a song I felt on an immediate level (I had to take my time with it) it’s beautifully arranged and poignant as a piece of music. Arcadia is just probably one of her weakest tracks in recent memory (imo) mainly it just doesn’t “gel”. On one hand you have beautiful melody arrangements in the verses but the lyricism is weak and on the other hand you have passable lyrics in the chorus but a weird melody progression. The ending result is not BAD per se but it’s definitely a piece of work better suited for poetry and not music, perhaps? Plus her general lack of accountability can sometimes become a bit jarring because as so thoughtfully expressed by another user a few pages back, Lana doesn’t look at criticism with nuance and lumps everything together in a way that feels kind of irresponsible because even though she gets a lot of unwarranted shit most of the times, there are certain occasions in which the criticism is valid and pertinent.

 

All in all, Arcadia isn’t just for me and I’m fine with it being The Skip of the album for me (I always have one per album: Carmen, The Other Woman, 24, TNC/GBA, TNBAR, Yosemite - DONT KILL ME!). 


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14 hours ago, Sportscruiser said:

 

Thank you for your feedback!

 

And I definitely agree with your on all accounts. I’m critical of the BLM inclusion in TB and even though it’s not a song I felt on an immediate level (I had to take my time with it) it’s beautifully arranged and poignant as a piece of music. Arcadia is just probably one of her weakest tracks in recent memory (imo) mainly it just doesn’t “gel”. On one hand you have beautiful melody arrangements in the verses but the lyricism is weak and on the other hand you have passable lyrics in the chorus but a weird melody progression. The ending result is not BAD per se but it’s definitely a piece of work better suited for poetry and not music, perhaps? Plus her general lack of accountability can sometimes become a bit jarring because as so thoughtfully expressed by another user a few pages back, Lana doesn’t look at criticism with nuance and lumps everything together in a way that feels kind of irresponsible because even though she gets a lot of unwarranted shit most of the times, there are certain occasions in which the criticism is valid and pertinent.

 

All in all, Arcadia isn’t just for me and I’m fine with it being The Skip of the album for me (I always have one per album: Carmen, The Other Woman, 24, TNC/GBA, TNBAR, Yosemite - DONT KILL ME!). 

The word “gel” you used is exactly what i wanted to say . At first i thought my main problem was her vocal delivery but now i think that it’s more about the structure of the song itself .
Also I think that after so many years of unjustified hate she might not be able now to really differentiate negative from constructive criticism and that’s my only concern about her behavior in general . 
 I find that it’s perfectly normal for us fans to state our opinions on which songs we feel are weaker than others , especially when we talk about our favorite artists . I think that Arcadia might be a skip for me as well because whenever i listen to the song i can’t stop thinking about the things that are bothering me  ( structure wise )  :toofunny:

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Talking about her lyricism:
I don't know if it truly is an unpopular opinion, but I never quite figured why people think Lana romanticize abuse or sadness. I've never ever in my life as a fan wanted similar relationships because, well, being in love with a cheater or an abuser... sucks? :oopna2:
I can understand how people can be inspired and would want to suffer the sadness, pain and heartbreak of an abusive relationship (you know how people mimic celebrities, and not only teenagers btw), but blaming it solely on Lana's lyricism is a little unfair. I've always had the feeling that sugarcoating her words is just a way to cope with her feelings, like magnifying the pain so it seems less unconquerable.

For real, I don't know how you can listen to Ultraviolence or SAD Girl and think "wow, I want to be that girl so much and live the same life" when you can feel the despair in her voice.

Even the so-called glamorous lives narrated in Born to Die seem full of pain. When you scratch the glossy veneer, everything's dark and melancholic. I think the problem is, people are obsessed by aesthetic. They differentiate looking glamorous and the real feelings behind the mask, when in Lana discography, it goes hand in hand. Carmen is a perfect example for me, as she describes how fun her life can seem, when she actual feels like dying: it's like, you know, thinking beautiful people have it easy in life just because they're beautiful, but in reality, they feel miserable for many reasons.

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49 minutes ago, Mash Tragic said:

Talking about her lyricism:
I don't know if it truly is an unpopular opinion, but I never quite figured why people think Lana romanticize abuse or sadness. I've never ever in my life as a fan wanted similar relationships because, well, being in love with a cheater or an abuser... sucks? :oopna2:
I can understand how people can be inspired and would want to suffer the sadness, pain and heartbreak of an abusive relationship (you know how people mimic celebrities, and not only teenagers btw), but blaming it solely on Lana's lyricism is a little unfair. I've always had the feeling that sugarcoating her words is just a way to cope with her feelings, like magnifying the pain so it seems less unconquerable.

For real, I don't know how you can listen to Ultraviolence or SAD Girl and think "wow, I want to be that girl so much and live the same life" when you can feel the despair in her voice.

Even the so-called glamorous lives narrated in Born to Die seem full of pain. When you scratch the glossy veneer, everything's dark and melancholic. I think the problem is, people are obsessed by aesthetic. They differentiate looking glamorous and the real feelings behind the mask, when in Lana discography, it goes hand in hand. Carmen is a perfect example for me, as she describes how fun her life can seem, when she actual feels like dying: it's like, you know, thinking beautiful people have it easy in life just because they're beautiful, but in reality, they feel miserable for many reasons.

 

i think the "aesthetic" aspect of her music is what makes it so intriguing & complex, yet, what is being depicted isn't neccessarily something which is desirable or glamorous, that's something i do really love about the born to die/paradise era is how complex the music itself, and it's themes/lyricism really are, at first, it's a gorgeous, perfect mix between luxury, opulence, romance, melancholy, somber, & despair, which is illustrated by the music itself, with luscious strings & fast-paced hip-hop beats, paired with dark guitars, & lana's smokey, summery voice, i can see why it would be easy to listen to her music and think of it as very glamorous & exciting, but if you really listen to the music, and the lyrics, you'll see that it's very gloomy, i think it's very subtle, in the lyricism itself, there's many examples of this subtle, yet strong presence of darkness & anguish, like off to the races, for example, is quite fast-paced and it talks a lot about glamour, materialism, luxury, troubled, yet exciting romance, yet there's still darkness & gloom within the lyrics "he knows me, every inch of my tar-black soul", "he doesn't mind i have a flat, broke-down life", "cause he knows i'm wasted, facing, time again at riker's island and i won't get out" i honestly think the complexitiy in her early work is genius, i think some people simply don't understand and they label it as toxic or romanticization, but i don't really think it is, i do think some people can find a sense of beauty in their own pain/troubles/sadness, and although i think this can be a harmful way of interpreting your own problems & emotions, i can personally relate to finding a strange sense of beauty in my sadness and i think it's wonderful that she was authentic and wrote about her own experiences & feelings, many people will be able to relate even if they can't personally relate to the experience of being with a partner who wasn't a good person for you, or living a troubled lifestyle

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2 hours ago, Angelic Tropico said:

I don’t think she’ll ever meet the standard of BTD, UV and HM again

She will set new standards I hope, but only if she has the heart to not release too many of her older songs.

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6 hours ago, Angelic Tropico said:

I don’t think she’ll ever meet the standard of BTD, UV and HM again

Still love her forever and her music remains my favorite.. nothing she releases is bad to me.. but this is the truth. I'm just thankful we even have BTD-Honeymoon because clearly it was life changing for us. I'm so happy she continues to make music though. There's some amazing songs on LFL NFR & COCC but she really started out so strong and so unique there's just no way she can match or top it. There's not a single song id remove from her discography, its all important but I would be just as satisfied and happy if all we ever got was BTD-Honeymoon.. it was just SO good.

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Spoiler

I just heard Nectar of The Gods for the first time and I don’t understand what’s so great about this song? The melodies are alright and lyrically the chorus is so insipid… I’m used to much better by our Queen Mother…

 


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11 hours ago, shady said:

 

It's kinda weird how society is so selective on who can sing about negative feelings, what negative feelings are aloud to be expressed while singing about hypersexuality is completely safe because it's hedonistic and because everyone and their grandma sings about sex. 

For example, Kurt Cobain could sing about anything, even rape, and would be praised because he's Kurt, while Lana is that 'depressing' SNL girl that sings about Lolita and domestic violence. Reminds me how Courtney Love's music was completely overlooked by her being a social climber, allegedly killing Kurt and, most importantly, being a woman in a misogynistic rock n roll scene. 

 

This is quite literally the exact point Lana was trying to make in QFTC skjsfsin 

I really wish it was better-received, as the point she was trying to make was really quite valid x


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11 hours ago, shady said:

 

It's kinda weird how society is so selective on who can sing about negative feelings, what negative feelings are aloud to be expressed while singing about hypersexuality is completely safe because it's hedonistic and because everyone and their grandma sings about sex. 

For example, Kurt Cobain could sing about anything, even rape, and would be praised because he's Kurt, while Lana is that 'depressing' SNL girl that sings about Lolita and domestic violence. Reminds me how Courtney Love's music was completely overlooked by her being a social climber, allegedly killing Kurt and, most importantly, being a woman in a misogynistic rock n roll scene. 

there's a word for that, it's called misogyny. 

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Lana's best albums are: 

1. NFR

2. HM

3. COCC

 

Ultravioence comes in at 4 

 

*Runs* 


578c68b668f2f515fc750b6860a1213b--torch- Ever since my baby went away... its been the blackest day..... its been the blackest day

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After listening to 'Honeymoon' in full earlier- while I always thought it was objectively her best album- I never fully connected with every single song on the album. But listening to it, even the songs I didn't really care for initially, I was pleasantly surprised by them (namely 'HBTB' and 'Swan Song'). 
 

This album is simply gorgeous.

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36 minutes ago, West Coast said:

'Swan Song'). 

Swan Song is super super underrated! 

 

 


578c68b668f2f515fc750b6860a1213b--torch- Ever since my baby went away... its been the blackest day..... its been the blackest day

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