Pensacola
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Posts posted by Pensacola
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I actually find it quite amusing how strong the reactions are and what I am being acused of. It really is because I probably read every interview, I know every song etc etc.
Folks, people who were here for Lana because of the chart success already left this fandom before UV dropped, which is actually my favourite Lana album along with AKA.
And let's not get started with why BTD was recieved so poorly. We all know it, so let's keep it there.
Part of BTD's bad reception was because people had their knives out for her, DUH, but when you compare it with her last 2 albums, it's like night and day. BTD is a classic, but not a masterpiece. Let's keep it real. It has some shit songs on it.
Anyway we're getting farther away from what the initial point of this convo was.
If you're not letting the commercial stuff affect your opinion, then excellent. But you haven't done a great job of making it sound that way. That's all we're saying.
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Well, she isn't doing anything interesting with it, which is true, but the focus is what is on the record. It's all pretty, but sometimes also pretty dull.
It is not an awful album, don't get me wrong, it is just so without any drive. And the songs on there are not really among her strongest when you compare it to the rest of her discography.
The thing is, it ain't bad, it is just a middle of the road.
Not many people agree with that. Look at the reviews of Born To Die comapred to this.
Both this and the last album have elevated her to a level of respect that she always wanted. She's said over and over how her primary goal was to be a musician and an artist, one that people enjoyed, not this provocateur, polarizing icon that her fans elevated her to in 2012. She obviously enjoyed playing with jarring imagery back then, but she's been there/done that, and she did the promo circuit back then too, but again, she has said that she does not enjoy it.
The fact that you are virtually dismissing her work and her drive as a creator based on her lack of desire to do things she finds unsavory isn't really all that fair. If you want to stan for a pop star that you can brag out to other people (and have that be your primary source of enjoyment), then I can link you to the Toilet Seat boards. But you're here because i assume you connect with Lana, so just let it happen. She's getting further and further away from the Stan Wars culture and you're gonna have to adapt.
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This is a place for her fans, not Lana or what she actually thinks. It's what we think. Every single one of us. The reason why fan forums exist.
And that's fine, but if you guys have frustrations about the way Lana expresses herself or makes her money, they should have a more legitimate foundation to stand on other than "WHY CAN'T SHE SELL ALBUMS LIKE LORDE
(((( "Otherwise you really do sound kind of sad.
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I think in the case of UV it was really just because she didn't care for the record after it dropped.
See, I don't care about ppl on here and other places who come for Lana and post bullshit like "OMG Halsey and Melanie Martinez released better records", because they totally didn't.
The only thing that is frustrating is that she actually leaves room with her decisions when making an album for others to claim enough space to run with something she started with.
Same with Lorde, now Halsey.
And she is very competitve actually. I mean, this is the same woman who talked about other females trying to steal her thunder and how she was pissed about it. And rightfully so, just by the way.
Thing is, Lorde is kind of a joke, shes not even 18 years old first of all, and she hangs out with idiots like Taylor Swift. People are well aware that she's Lana Del Rey for White Mothers and Children.
Halsley will probably go the same route.
People aren't stupid. Lana Del Rey originated the image and sound that set off a firestorm of fashion trends and musical trends. Everyone gets called out for copying Lana now, and it's amusing.
It's a lot like when Lady Gaga's ripping off of Madonna culminated in a song that no one liked and her career has more or less been an afterthought since. The public has never taken too kindly to second-rate imitations of ANYONE. I can give you maybe another dozen examples too.
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You are blinded by the sales.
Elephant in the room that people keep trying to ignore.
I think some people invest themselves in artists for the wrong reasons. Lana would roll her eyes at so many of these posts. If you guys are all under the age of 20 then I'll cut you some slack tho. lol
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I don’t intend to write on LB for a while so I put all my thoughts about the HM era here and it came out a bit lengthy sry for that
I would entitled this review “LDR hits a wall with Honeymoon”, but in fact is more accurate to say that she hit several walls at once with this release. I said in my earlier posts that I don’t understand her rush to come out so soon with an album after UV. Commercially didn’t make any sense as it is confirmed by the dismal sales of HM. She wasn’t ready to promote and her shy and awkward promotion of HM is a clear indication of that. I feared that she will come out with an album that will be the bad middle point of being in the same time subpar commercially and critically. The critics didn’t panned the album but no one is enthusiastic about it as were some of them with UV. This album just doesn’t make sense from the standpoint of her career and taken together with the botched UV era is creating a lack of perspective on her career which has inevitable influences on everybody who’s following her.
The lyrical wall. When you put out slow music you put inevitably your lyrics to the front. She was widely criticized for her cliché-istic writing by using a lot of well-known poetic references, pop imagery and for the over use of location names and icons. When you’re aware of that you have to be extra careful to not abuse it again because otherwise you’re putting yourself in the trolling category. At this point in her career trolling is just infuriating and lame. BB, MPG, FMWTT was enough of trolling, she didn’t needed more emphasis on how misunderstood and how mistreated she is by the critics. That’s why I don’t like the cover of DLBM, as it is an unnecessary lament especially after the UV era when she was praised plenty. Another major critical point regarding the lyrical content of HM is about the narrow sided artistic vision of hers. Honeymoon opens a bit towards more nuances about relationships but not enough to create the feeling of her moving forward artistically. I felt that HM is a combination of BTD and UV lyrically but there are present the same overused tropes in her work: escapism to nowhere and from nothing specific, being desperately in love and lonely after the inevitable disappointment. In my opinion the critics gave HM a better evaluation that it deserves. This is maybe due to their ridiculous negative overreaction during the BTD era and they are compensating here. I would gave HM a 6/10 for the lyrics but in the same time I’m convinced that she cannot put out an album with the same lyrical pitfalls and be taken seriously.
The sonic wall. Many critics and listeners are saying that all LDR songs sound the same and they are boring. If we analyze the melodies or the genre variety on her albums we can objectively say that they are surprisingly varied. I don’t know many artists who have on the same album rock, blues, pop and jazz (UV) or jazz, pop, trap (HM) songs. I think that the problem resides rather with her delivery. Lana is capable of a wide variety of vocals ranging from operatic highs to low contra-alto warbles. The problem is her disaffected tone in her voice, like she is so bored to sing that song. You don’t know, for example, if watching the boys is boring or sexy (probably both which is awkward). There are no sustained emotional highs on HM despite some songs are clearly demanding it. It’s like she’s afraid or restrained to sing emotionally which is disappointing. This coldness in her delivery makes HM a difficult listen and is diminishing the beautiful sonic constructions she came up with. I give HM 7/10 for the sound. I think that she reached another wall here because this type of singing is not enjoyable for longer periods and she needs to change it for her next albums. I have to say that I changed my opinion on HM after several listens and I think that UV is better than HM. HM had better potential but falls flat mainly because of her cold delivery (sadness with no emotion is off-putting).
The video and imagery wall. We discussed here how after Tropico her videography became lackluster. Tropico was a huge mistake which highlighted both her unchecked artistic freedom and her limitations as a video artist. In my opinion, her best videos were BTD, BJ, NA and Ride, beautifully shot with cohesive stories and imagery. But Tropico was a mishmash of ideas, frankensteined together, too much even for trolling purposes. Her last good video was SOC, but the emphasis on that old dude just didn’t make any sense when you’re considering who her audience is. Her videos just don’t add lately anything to her artistic appeal, they are just dismissed as awkward or surreal by the critics (see MTWBT video) and they don’t have any significant commercial impact. She needs to let the reins of her videos in the hands of people who understand her vision but who can execute it rightly (like Woodkid did). I never really cared about or liked her album imagery tbh. BTD cover is iconic with that steely stare but UV’s sad boring look cover is forgettable and the HM cover is just bad while suggesting the disconnection between her and the listener. Moreover, her public image slowly became uncool, especially when we count her numerous subpar public appearances and photo shoots. These things are not directly related to the album but it affects the perception of it. Her image is tired and boring. She needs to brake this sad potato meets Priscilla Presley image which will be very difficult because she’s so entrenched in it and there is a chance that people will not be into the new image.
The likability/hype wall. “I wish I was dead”, “I fucked my way to the top”, “I’m not interested in feminism”, “I make everything for myself” these statements did an irreparable damage to her career. Her words were twisted by the journalists for sure but what counts is the end result which is tragic for Lana. I will put here the Gaga diss also which was another terrible blow for her, turning against her the majority of one of the most numerous and compact fandoms in pop. She was perceived as a threat by many fandoms whose faves have no chance when comparing them with Lana’s voice, beauty and music. Many Lana fans contributed to this with their obnoxious behavior on twitter and forums and now there are many stans rooting for her to fail. She became isolated from the GP which has no information about her and whose perception about her is rather negative and she became limited to her small fanbase who is following her activity on the internet. Let’s face it, the hype is dead and she has a very low likability factor today which explains the crumbling interest in her album. Likability is a subjective thing and is very easy to destroy it and is very hard or next to impossible to regain it. There is always other artists ready to pick up your audience (Lorde, Martinez, Halsey, Banks, Day, etc.). If we are taking in account her lack of confidence and her inability to perform live there is practically no chance that she can turn this situation around. The next bad thing for her will be the lack of interest in her tour which is closely related to her sales (who would pay 50$ for her ticket and not buying an album for 15$?).
The promotion wall. Depression is a hard sell. First, you have to do it right and with high artistic credibility. Secondly, the way you’re presenting the album will have a great effect on how people are perceiving it. If you put the album out without any promotion there is a good chance that people will not take notice or that they will judge it on their own terms. I’m still not over about her assessment that UV and HM are basically words that have a cool sound to them. Really Lana, that’s all you’re saying and you’re trying to sell me your 1 hour of disaffected depression? One of the most annoying things regarding the album and the promo is the length of the songs. They are dragged indefinitely with purposely slow vocal deliveries and with endless repetition of some lyrics (GKIT). Well, I suspect that she did this on purpose so that no songs will fit the radio formats. But why would any artist in their right mind do that when hits are moving records and keep the interest alive? I would say something about BTD here. BTD sold continuously in relatively small numbers, except for the opening weeks in Europe. The momentum was kept by her high profile in the mainstream media and fashion in 2012 and by her only hits in the US, YB and SS. I hate that SS remix, but I have to admit that a large part of the sales after 2012 are due to these hit songs which were played relentlessly on the radio. She had 4 hit worthy songs on BTD: BTD, BJ, VG and SS which were enough for a buying decision. She went hitless on UV and HM and the consequences are dire: her albums are off the radar in 2-3 weeks after the release. Why wouldn’t she have a hit? My opinion is that she’s afraid to perform live in the mainstream media and hits would put a huge pressure on her to do so. I speculate that she had taken a decision to not do live TV anymore. No TV performances and no radio? Let’s be real this is an insurmountable wall regarding her promotion which will push her towards irrelevancy sooner than later. The drop in interest regarding her music from album to album is huge and I would be curious how many stans will be on this site after 3 years from now. Go to the MarinaBoards to have a taste of that.
Sometimes I bashed her management for not doing enough or doing stupid things regarding her career. Well, I don’t like that Mawson guy a bit, but I have to admit, looking back with more objectivity, that is a miracle that they made out of Lana a relatively big name in music on the strength of one good song and an awkward video. None of the songs on BTD were close to the artistry of VG, and she was terrible performing live (that’s why I will never understand how could Interscope take the decision to put her on SNL). If I had been an executive, after watching her live performances as Lizzy Grant I would never gave her a contract tbh. From her attitude while singing I would never felt that she wants it badly and she’ll do everything what it takes to shine her work.
She’s talented no doubt, a good songwriter and a very good studio singer and I will be ever grateful for her beautiful music (included HM) but lately, for the first time since I’m a fan of hers, I felt that there is a possibility in the future when I will not care about LDR anymore. And this is the biggest wall for any artist: when they are starting losing their hardcore fans. But she probably doesn’t care. I would have liked her more to perform confidently for her fans, on some improvised stage, new songs from HM, televised for the fans who will never have a chance to see her performing live, than kissing on lips some deranged fans who thinks that this is appropriate.
I think you're letting your investment in commercial success cloud your enjoyment (and to a certain degree, opinion) of her output. A lot of this smacks of being really attached to other people's opinions and characterizations of Lana instead of your own. Which is unfortuante but I notice that a lot of fanbases get caught up in this way of thinking. Most grow out of it eventually and just relax. Living vicariously through pop stars is a bit pathetic but I realize it's a phase.
I saw someone make a comparison of Lana and Bjork awhile ago. They're completely different artists, and Bjork is far less polarizing and controversial, but her trajectory was very similar. She started relatively strong considering the material she was putting out. She had a shtick and never veered from it. Her albums are all markedly different, but still rooted in the same world (the alien experimental art world). She's still a household name, but doesn't sell albums and hasn't been a commercially viable artist since the late 90s. Yet critics fall head over heels for her and she still has a very solid fanbase. I see Lana going this route.
Lana's refusal to succumb to commercial/mainstream demands the way say, The Weeknd has (arguably her most perfectly matched contemporary) is not somethign to shit on just because you're not happy she's not doing 2012 numbers. You should applaud her for settling into her vision confidently, for not doing things she doesn't want to do (television and interviews), and for being true to herself overall. I guarantee you that if she felt forced to be or do things she wasn't interested in, she'd unravel, like anyone would.
I understand the artistic frustrations you have, with lyrics or videos or whatever, but you're going to have to accept that you're in the minority since she's getting the best reviews of her career and despite the bare-bones budget, the last two videos have gotten a great reception too (and this is coming from someone who agrees that the videos have gotten a little unimaginative, but I can still find things to admire about them on a technical level).
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https://a.tumblr.com/tumblr_n3prkc09Vt1qerg8so1.mp3
Listen at your own risk. I really don't want to leak it, but let's face it, various snippets are already out. Blackest Day has an almost Hans Zimmer feel to it. It reminds be a bit of Born to Die, but less single-ish. I don't know if I really like it yet, but I think it's one that grows, like West Coast maybe? Really adds to the "diversity" that Lana we were hoping for, I'm sure. I really like the lyrics though. A lot better than Honeymoon. It's a bit awkward, not that many strings. It sounds more modern in my opinion, but not like HBTB. It's a new sound that sounds familiar, if that makes sense.
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Terrence Loves You is beautiful. Wasn't expecting to like it at the start, since it kind of felt like another Honeymoon (I like Honeymoon alright, but it's a bit tiresome)... but by the end I was blown away.
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I'm remembering when 70% of this board had their conniptions when the Ultraviolence cover was unleashed.
Now apparently everyone loves it.Watch the same thing happen a year from now.
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The ode to the imaginary bad lover is beyond tiresome at this point. Sorry Lana, hiring snoozfest Rick Novels to produce the entire album was a huge mistake. The sound is tired, HM and TLY are so similar that is kind of tacky. Humming half of the songs is just lazy. I don't give a fuck about the covers but with this one, where she is just a tiny head between the lines, it's kind of a suggestion for the inevitable fading into irrelevance of her career. After TLY I give up any hope for this album. UV next to HM is a masterpiece and I still don't understand the rush to come out with this subpar album after UV
omg stop crying
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Oh, and a sidenote - having people agree with you doesn't exactly exclude something you said from being insufferable... just saying. So I would retire that defense.
<3
Love you tho mean it. I'm sure you didn't mean to come across negatively.
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Hope you had a great time writing all this witty pejorative response but let me tell you something, you can still make your points without being an asshole.
Your opinion does not invalidate mine and my comment was clearly not "insufferable" since a lot of people seem to agree with what I said. So please take several stadium seats before coming for me boo.
I realize it came off as pretentious to mention I'm a film student but you can't deny the "certain look" they were going for didn't translate well to the screen. I'm talking about the mix of brutal hand held camera work and smooth dolly slow motion shots that simply didn't go well together.
And hey you gotta stop trying to justify every single thing she does with "Oh no, no, no, they were going for that look, it was the intended aesthetic". I you feel the need to keep telling yourself that then something's not right. I can make a crappy video and quote lots of famous directors and genres as my influence but that won't make it better. Whatever
I don't really think I've posted enough on this forum for you to categorize me as a Lana brown noser. I'm probably 1 of the only ppl who will tell it like it is - Lana has made some pretty dubious artistic choices - a lot of which have come in the past year in the form of lackluster soundtrack singles and 1 glaringly awful music video (Ultraviolence, which there was no excuse for).
I just think the culture on here can get pretty hysterical and pompous and your initial post was a great example of that. You may have not meant anything by it but hwatever, you responded to my compliment about the video with that mess, so if you were expecting a polite response it just wasn't meant to be.
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I get that they wanted that handheld look but did the filming really have to be that shaky at points? Like, when Lana was going down one of the sets of stairs, there's about 5 seconds where you can't see her and it looks horrible. But the biggest problem with the video is the random jump cuts, there's literally no excuse for them. It makes the video look so unprofessional. At least the handheld filming was bearable and didn't ruin anything that much.
Shrug. They wanted that pro-am look. You could easily say that it's an dumb excuse for lazy camera work, but at the end of the day that's what they wanted the video to look like and that's what they created.
I love the National Anthem and Shades of Cool video for example but there were certain parts of it that look like they were shot with your cheaper-than-normal film equipment; laziness, budget, or intentional? Probably intentional, and it's really up to you to decide whether you like it or not.
But I do think it's stupid for people (not to name any names.... but GangstaBoy) to waltz in citing their "education" as reason to school us on what we should or shouldn't like about these videos. Have a seat, and don't leave it until you've earned the right to.
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It's nice to see people who clearly don't know shit talk about camera work for example. Camera movements were terrible and all over the place. There were a few nice moments, like the beginning and the ending but overall I wouldn't call the camera work good. Another thing that bugs me is those random cuts and repetitions that make absolutely no sense becuase they don't have a purpose and were poorly executed. I study film production so I'm coming from knowledge. And it's not like I'm a die hard BTD fan and I want those videos back, I truly enjoyed UV's visuals and I think SOC is one of her best videos as well. As someone said above me it's a mediocre video, a good concept but a poor execution.
Expecting tons of GURL BYE and stupid reaction gifs after saying all this
Oh the obligatory "I study film so yeah" post. How do you know that I don't know shit about camera work, fool? Man, film students are all the same. I used to be 1 myself. Everyone starts thinking theyre David fucking Fincher. It'd be funny if it weren't kind of tragic tbh.
ANYWAY, your insufferable post aside, it's obvious they were either working on a small budget or intended the whole thing to look handheld/home video/spontaneous. It's not like they just walked in there and turned on the camera and winged it. They clearly had enough budget for a damn helicopter, aerial shots, and a dolly tracking during the key running scene down the dark railed hallway, so it's not like they couldn't have done a smooth dolly style inside her house as well. So it's natural to assume they wanted a certain look to this. The UV video this is not.
So let me translate your post for you: the camera work is not to my liking or taste.
As for the random cuts - I'll give you that, it added nothing to the video except break up the pace. But IMO that's a small bone to pick.
Anyway carry on, hope you graduate. lol
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I feel like a lot of the criticism of this video has been pretty limited to the hardcore rabid fans, to be honest. It's gotten a pretty good reception from everywhere else.
There's something to be said for good camera work, a unique concept, and creativity over budget. That's why Lana is so consistent on the video front. Each video has been pretty different from the last. You guys are going to have to deal with the fact that she's not going to make a Ride 2.0 or a Born To Die right out the gate every single time. Been there, done that.
It's a great video, but if you were hoping for some daddy-issues/sad bottoms anthem type of visual then you're probably going to be very disappointed with her videography from here on out.
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It's not UV video level trolling but it will not help her in this era.
I like it somewhat visually because she is so beautiful and I love the ocean.
Fuck Jake Nava, this shit didn't needed a director.
She killed HBTB commercially with this video but put the song in a different perspective and strangely I enjoy it more watching the video. I think that she exaggerates the paparazzi thing, she's not that famous. She was more insulted as an artist than bothered in her every day life by the media.
You can stop trolling Lana you'll never become a superstar. I'm not interested anymore how she fares commercially because she obviously doesn't give a shit. So far, qualitywise, HM has to mediocre songs and a subpar video. At least UV had quality songs, I'm done staning this era
Jesus christ get a grip.
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As I saw her in Italy she seems to be in a serious relationship with Francesco. Maybe Honeymoon, the album, is secondary for her at this point and she's more into planning her personal life: her wedding, HM with Francesco and little Lanas. I wouldn't be surprised tbh: she's 30 y.o., a millionaire, her father is a millionaire, Francesco is wealthy in his own right and part of Italy's high life. Why would she be doing promo for her album when she hates it? Honeymoon, the song, was released (if we could call the posting on her YT account a release) with even less coherency and promotional effect than WC last year, is a low key song that points nowhere lyrically or sonically. She's appears to be so over being a star, so I just wait patiently for the music and nothing else, I hope that HM is a misleading single for the album tho
fun stuff
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Speaking my language.
Honeymoon - Post-Release Discussion Thread + Poll
in Post-Release Threads
Posted
She's laughable at this point.
It's already been said - but how hilarious that she saw ONE VIDEO from Lana and now not only thinks she holds the default opinion of Lana's entire catalogue, but it also makes her previous remarks about Lana's "wish I was dead" quote even more egregious. Here's a girl who Ms. Gordon knows zero about, aside from one song and music video, and yet felt comfortable enough to not only lecture her about how to behave but also suggested she follow through with offing herself. What class.
Typical aging, out of touch white trash. Put her out to pasture. She's a perfect example of aging ungracefully.