Azealia comments on "Art Deco" diss track rumors

[Coney Island King 25,991]

Lana should wear a burqa with a war bonnet in her next video. I think she would look hot af.

 

but instead of the eye slot she should have a mouth slot so we can see her plump lips yessssssssss x

[plush 656]

she could be talking about Rupaul

[Atom Heart 1,929]

Lana should wear a burqa with a war bonnet in her next video. I think she would look hot af.

I was looking at Lanaboards & saw that i really hurt someones feelings ! Im sorry.

It was light green background with white egg shape . Bye

[Valentino 884]

The real problem with cultural appropriation isn't that some white girl uses a bindi or twerks. Those are actually separate issues about how some traditionally "ethnic" things are considered okay if done by white people but trashy or gross if done by the people who created it. This doesn't really have a name, and it is something that should be discussed, but people call it cultural appropriation and it's not the best use of the term.

 

The issue with cultural appropriation is taking something from its cultural context, especially without permission. That's why war bonnets are a touchy symbol. They're the equivalent of earning a medal in a war. By wearing it to look "cute" or because you "feel free", you degrade it from an actual symbol of heroic bravery into a hipster trash accessory on par with flower crowns. The symbol stops meaning anything significant, and that's part of the culture that eroded away.

 

Intention doesn't really mean anything when it comes to this. All that matters is that you're using something that has special meaning, especially something sacred, and using it outside that intended context, and that by itself causes the object to become associated with the mundane as opposed to the sacred. Even if that wasn't your intention, that is the end result, and it's still harmful to the cultures in question.

 

It's a shame the discussion about cultural appropriation has degenerated into BS like "can white people use things from non-white cultures?" because that just encourages cultural segregation while missing the core of what makes appropriation harmful. Sharing is great. But sharing requires someone to offer you something. Sacred symbols are never offered to other cultures (precisely because they are sacred). There are plenty of Native American decorative items one can choose to use that are sold by Natives and have no special value. Use those. There's no need to go for the one that has an important meaning.

 

I normally try to stay away from political discussions here, but I can't stand to see discussion about appropriation be turned to "twerking! bindis!" because all that does is make people reject the concept wholesale. It is an issue. But not for the reasons most people think. Lana did appropriate the culture by using a war bonnet outside of its intended context. She probably had no intention of doing so. But actions have consequences beyond their intentions (also the 60s and 70s were full of cultural appropriation of sacred things by hippies, so don't be surprised).

[PrettyBaby 2,219]

This forum is the worst whenever topics like racism and cultural appropriation (and feminism) come up. Fucking hell there are some idiots on this forum. 

 

I just figured out who you are LOVE the name 

[PrettyBaby 2,219]

The real problem with cultural appropriation isn't that some white girl uses a bindi or twerks. Those are actually separate issues about how some traditionally "ethnic" things are considered okay if done by white people but trashy or gross if done by the people who created it. This doesn't really have a name, and it is something that should be discussed, but people call it cultural appropriation and it's not the best use of the term.

 

The issue with cultural appropriation is taking something from its cultural context, especially without permission. That's why war bonnets are a touchy symbol. They're the equivalent of earning a medal in a war. By wearing it to look "cute" or because you "feel free", you degrade it from an actual symbol of heroic bravery into a hipster trash accessory on par with flower crowns. The symbol stops meaning anything significant, and that's part of the culture that eroded away.

 

Intention doesn't really mean anything when it comes to this. All that matters is that you're using something that has special meaning, especially something sacred, and using it outside that intended context, and that by itself causes the object to become associated with the mundane as opposed to the sacred. Even if that wasn't your intention, that is the end result, and it's still harmful to the cultures in question.

 

It's a shame the discussion about cultural appropriation has degenerated into BS like "can white people use things from non-white cultures?" because that just encourages cultural segregation while missing the core of what makes appropriation harmful. Sharing is great. But sharing requires someone to offer you something. Sacred symbols are never offered to other cultures (precisely because they are sacred). There are plenty of Native American decorative items one can choose to use that are sold by Natives and have no special value. Use those. There's no need to go for the one that has an important meaning.

 

I normally try to stay away from political discussions here, but I can't stand to see discussion about appropriation be turned to "twerking! bindis!" because all that does is make people reject the concept wholesale. It is an issue. But not for the reasons most people think. Lana did appropriate the culture by using a war bonnet outside of its intended context. She probably had no intention of doing so. But actions have consequences beyond their intentions (also the 60s and 70s were full of cultural appropriation of sacred things by hippies, so don't be surprised).

 

I agree that Lana did (in the Ride video) appropriate the culture regardless of intent. Her intent is relevant for determining how the problem should be addressed. In the case of "Art Deco," her intended meaning of "you're so ghetto" (both "ghetto" and "you're") is relevant both for determining whether there is a problem, and also if so, how the problem should be addressed.

[ZeroZero 2,225]

close the thread this never gonna end

[slang 1,532]

 

Intention doesn't really mean anything when it comes to this. All that matters is that you're using something that has special meaning, especially something sacred, and using it outside that intended context, and that by itself causes the object to become associated with the mundane as opposed to the sacred. Even if that wasn't your intention, that is the end result, and it's still harmful to the cultures in question.

 

It's a shame the discussion about cultural appropriation has degenerated into BS like "can white people use things from non-white cultures?" because that just encourages cultural segregation while missing the core of what makes appropriation harmful. Sharing is great. But sharing requires someone to offer you something. Sacred symbols are never offered to other cultures (precisely because they are sacred). There are plenty of Native American decorative items one can choose to use that are sold by Natives and have no special value. Use those. There's no need to go for the one that has an important meaning.

 

 

 

The problem I have with calling her use of the headdress racist is that the term "racist" implies hatred and fear, and I don't think she has either for Native Americans. I think you can say she is disrespectful or insensitive to something, and nobody is arguing her use of the headdress in the video is authorized. But how offensive it is depends on the meaning of her use, or what she intended to communicate by using it. Even if all appropriations are wrong, the degree of wrong is not one-size-fits-all and has to be considered case by case.

 

That said, my favorite interpretation of why she wears the headdress supposes LDR considers being a recovered alcoholic a kind of struggle she shared with some Native Americans (alcohol being a weapon of the "Indian Wars" of the 19th century). She wears the headdress as a badge of honor for her victory over alcoholism and maybe as a defensive talisman protecting her from the effects of alcohol on her men. The Wikipedia entry for "War Bonnet" is what gave me both ideas (badge of honor is a standard function; protective talisman is suggested by the last paragraph about Roman Nose). I'm not defending her, because it's still a cultural appropriation, even if the headdress is used in a culturally-relevant way. However, at least I have an explanation for why a Native American headdress shows up in a video with so many cut shots to booze -- attached only to her men -- while her character (crazy in many ways) makes a point of drinking orange soda. I don't think LDR has to have intended my interpretation for me to hold it (although I find it plausible she does). However, she does need to stay sober in order for me to continue to hold it. 

[Valentino 884]

 

 

 

 

The problem I have with calling her use of the headdress racist is that the term "racist" implies hatred and fear, and I don't think she has either for Native Americans. I think you can say she is disrespectful or insensitive to something, and nobody is arguing her use of the headdress in the video is authorized. But how offensive it is depends on the meaning of her use, or what she intended to communicate by using it. Even if all appropriations are wrong, the degree of wrong is not one-size-fits-all and has to be considered case by case.

 

That said, my favorite interpretation of why she wears the headdress supposes LDR considers being a recovered alcoholic a kind of struggle she shared with some Native Americans (alcohol being a weapon of the "Indian Wars" of the 19th century). She wears the headdress as a badge of honor for her victory over alcoholism and maybe as a defensive talisman protecting her from the effects of alcohol on her men. The Wikipedia entry for "War Bonnet" is what gave me both ideas (badge of honor is a standard function; protective talisman is suggested by the last paragraph about Roman Nose). I'm not defending her, because it's still a cultural appropriation, even if the headdress is used in a culturally-relevant way. However, at least I have an explanation for why a Native American headdress shows up in a video with so many cut shots to booze -- attached only to her men -- while her character (crazy in many ways) makes a point of drinking orange soda. I don't think LDR has to have intended my interpretation for me to hold it (although I find it plausible she does). However, she does need to stay sober in order for me to continue to hold it. 

 

 

If you'll notice, the word "racist" was not used once in my post. This was intentional on my part. It's a loaded word and when you throw it at someone's fave, people become more concerned with protecting their fave than thinking "well, is what she did really racist, and if so, how can we stop it from happening again?" It stops discourse, and I think talking about these things calmly is important. Unfortunately a stan forum is probably the worst place to do this, but whatcha gonna do.

 

Intent can only carry you so far. There's a reason people apologize if they accidentally elbow you in the face - despite not intending to hurt you, they nevertheless hurt you. And once they finish their apology, they usually say they'll be more careful from now on not to accidentally elbow you in the face (this has happened to me, so it's not some weird hypothetical). The same should apply to these actions.

 

I would bet you she used it because she thought it looked pretty. She's all about ~aesthetic~. And also because there was a trend of hipster white girls wearing headdresses (see: Coachella). Even Marina and the Diamonds was guilty of this. They probably thought "this looks nice, let me wear it", but didn't realize the value it had to the culture and, moreover, the devaluation of it they were causing by wearing it in such a frivolous manner.

 

For those of you who think this is hoopla over nothing and no tribes were harmed in the making of this video, look up 'the daily nebraska lana del rey war bonnet.' A member of one of the tribes that uses war bonnets (because remember - not all of them do) talks about the significance of it and why it's not okay. She also talks about some other pop artists. Obviously, one member of a group doesn't represent the group. Still, there is such a thing as majority opinion, and most everything I've read from members of war bonnet using tribes say "this item is not acceptable to wear outside its intended purpose."

 

I'm not going to post any further because discussions about this topic tend to turn ugly, so please don't quote this post. I'll just end this by saying that if Art Deco is about AB (which I'm pretty sure it's not, wtf Lipsters), calling her 'ghetto' is tacky, at best. Plus, 'ghetto' is definitely a racialized descriptor, let's be real. When you call someone ghetto, you're not saying "you look like a Jew from the segregated part of town!" You're saying "you look like you come from a poor black neighborhood and you're trashy." "The ghetto" refers to poor black neighborhoods specifically. I've never heard anyone talk about an Asian ghetto or a white ghetto (and the trailer park isn't really equivalent). I don't think this song is racist and I don't think Ghetto Baby is racist either, but let's not pretend that 'ghetto' has nothing to do with poor black neighborhoods.

[Divisive Princess 3,754]

We might as well lock this thread because it's a mess and her career is over anyways so it's time to move on.

[slang 1,532]

Fair enough I won't quote you @@Valentino. And yeah, if you thought the "racist" comment was directed at you (which was reasonable, I guess) that was my mistake. Someone above you was using that term, and I should have found the quote and multi-quoted it. It's basically the idea that "intention is meaningless" in an appropriation that I am questioning. I'm sort of tired that people talk about the wrongness of the appropriation without speculating about the reasoning behind the appropriation (other than the obvious bad reasons). I did concede that she was wrong to do it, the question is how wrong. The thought experiment I was proposing was: you have LDR's headdress use and Victoria's Secret's use. The latter apologized and LDR did not, but I think you can make an argument (under certain interpretations) that LDR's use was less offensive.

[Starsx 1,849]

Lana Boards is so frustrating. I come to this forum to talk about music. Not serious issues.

 

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[evilentity 13,341]

The problem I have with calling her use of the headdress racist is that the term "racist" implies hatred and fear, and I don't think she has either for Native Americans.

Racism can be much subtler than that.

 

That said, my favorite interpretation of why she wears the headdress supposes LDR considers being a recovered alcoholic a kind of struggle she shared with some Native Americans (alcohol being a weapon of the "Indian Wars" of the 19th century). She wears the headdress as a badge of honor for her victory over alcoholism and maybe as a defensive talisman protecting her from the effects of alcohol on her men. The Wikipedia entry for "War Bonnet" is what gave me both ideas (badge of honor is a standard function; protective talisman is suggested by the last paragraph about Roman Nose). I'm not defending her, because it's still a cultural appropriation, even if the headdress is used in a culturally-relevant way. However, at least I have an explanation for why a Native American headdress shows up in a video with so many cut shots to booze -- attached only to her men -- while her character (crazy in many ways) makes a point of drinking orange soda. I don't think LDR has to have intended my interpretation for me to hold it (although I find it plausible she does). However, she does need to stay sober in order for me to continue to hold it.

I think you're reaching so much you're gonna dislocate your arm. See @@longtimeman, I told you I was gonna have to steal that line. #PostAppropriation

 

I'm not going to post any further because discussions about this topic tend to turn ugly, so please don't quote this post.

I agreed 100% with everything you said up until this point in your post, and I agree that discussions like this tend to turn ugly, but I have to disagree with this "don't quote me" business. It comes off like you feel entitled to have the final word. It's a discussion forum. People are entitled to respond if they wish.

[naachoboy 7,993]

in all the wrong places... oh my god. 

[Wynwood 19,967]

Lana Boards is so frustrating. I come to this forum to talk about music. Not serious issues.

 

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

then go to a different thread, this thread is about Art Deco and its controversies, if you dont like it then leave

[KillKillQueen 1,298]

Sometimes I forget forums like this are populated by confused children who pick and choose issues. I wonder what would happen if lana said "baby you're so gaaay looking to whore"   ("looking to score-drug reference, if I'm going to reach) "SHE MEANT HAPPY" "DON'T SLUT SHAME"

[slang 1,532]

I think you're reaching so much you're gonna dislocate your arm. See @@longtimeman, I told you I was gonna have to steal that line. #PostAppropriation

 

 

 

Fair enough, but I think reaching is precisely my point. I'm given a choice of looking at the headdress as just some random thing she did that she was ignorant about the ramifications of. Or I can be shocked by the headdress and posit a meaning based on what I know of her. What should I do? It's my choice as an art consumer, but LDR tweeting she had spent considerable time on "Indian Reservations" kind of forced my choice, because I cannot (easily) assume she didn't know about the meaning of the headdress. Therefore, I choose to view the cultural appropriation as being of the cultural/historical functions of the headdress (as well as its visual aspect on her) and was made happier by virtue of the fact there appeared to be an external lattice to pin my interpretation on (her coming out about her alcoholism problem shortly before the Ride video, her behavior wrt to alcohol in the video and the odd prominence of booze imagery in the video, her tweeting--in a private twitter conversation, later divulged--that "I wore the headdress because I share struggles w my friends", not to mention the historical relation between Native Americans and alcoholism). So my reaching appeases me somewhat in terms of *explaining* her actions, but I don't know if Native Americans (who were strongly offended by her appropriation, not all of them were) would be affected by this interpretation.

 

 

 

[Atom Heart 1,929]

in all the wrong places... oh my god.

People said the song was about Azealia because it said ghetto. Smh.

[naachoboy 7,993]

People said the song was about Azealia because it said ghetto. Smh.

i know sis... racist cunts 

[WaitForLife 5,230]

I think this song is about me in some ways