The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind

[DeadAgainst 1,515]

I am trying not to say too much until the album drops, but ...

 

I've just read this whole three took me about two hours. I can say I love it and can't for future analysis of songs for, Honeymoon. I honestly wonder how conscious Lana is that she includes all of this in her work, and subconsciously or coincidentally it just happens to be there. I think the BTD video analysis is spot-on, and happens to be purposeful all the way through. It is pretty incredible. I'm an amateur when it comes to philosophy and theology still but I hope I can swiftly catch up to know as much as you two to be able to contribute to this thread. I have always wondered if Lana's work had some very deeper (and possibly darker) meaning to it then just what we hear and interpret to her life. Now it seems a bit more clearer.

 

I hope this isn't a dumb random question and actually fits into the topic, but I would also like to know one of your insights on the whole, "Living like Jim Morrison" from Gods&Monsters. Jim Morrison was also very inspired by philosophers and poets. There are many philosophical elements included in the work of the Doors, especially in songs written by Morrison. Do you think it is possible Lana could actually be modeling her life after Jim Morrison?

 

Honestly the figure she always seemed most similar to is David Bowie -- while today he is canonized, back in the 70's he was often criticized as being a hollow, cynical manipulator of his own image, appropriating the styles of his avant-garde contemporaries to push a mainstream product (and still today; just read Scaruffi's writeup, and compare it to what he said about the Doors -- he liked Ultraviolence, ironically!). This was unfounded, I think, but his analytical approach to creativity was always in stark contrast to cohorts like Lou Reed and Iggy Pop, who seemed to be more like forces of nature than anything else -- and the same could be said for Jim Morrison.

 

​"She has a definite vision of what she is and what she wants to be, musically and visually, which is cool. Patrick Carney (The Black Keys, drummer) and I have always just been, like, 'You can take our photo, I guess,' but she just like looks at this whole thing as this big art project that she gets to do, which is great."

 

So, what is true poetry? I must refer to this telling passage by Robert Graves -- http://www.dhushara.com/book/diana/diana.htm

 

"The theme, briefly, is the antique story ... of the birth, life, death and resurrection of the God of the Waxing Year; the central chapters concern the God's losing battle with the God of the Waning Year for love of the capricious and all - powerful Threefold Goddess, their mother, bride and layer-out. The poet identifies himself with the God of the Waxing Year and his Muse with the Goddess; the rival is his blood-brother, his other self, his weird. All true poetry - true by Housman's practical test celebrates some incident or scene in this very ancient story, and the three main characters are so much a part of our racial inheritance that they not only assert themselves in poetry but recur on occasions of emotional stress in the form of dreams, paranoiac visions and delusions.... The test of a poet's vision, one might say, is the accuracy of his portrayal of the White Goddess and of the island over which she rules. The reason why the hairs stand on end, the eyes water, the throat is constricted, the skin crawls and a shiver runs down the spine when one writes or reads a true poem is that a true poem is necessarily an invocation of the White Goddess, or Muse, the Mother of All Living, the ancient power of fright and lust - the female spider or the queen-bee whose embrace is death. Housman offered a secondary test of true poetry: whether it matches a phrase of Keats's, 'everything that reminds me of her goes through me like a spear'." (Gaves 1948 24)

 

But Graves went further and said that for the female artist, she must BE the White Goddess -- http://magmapoetry.com/archive/magma-37-2/articles/the-female-poet-and-the-male-muse/

 

For Robert Graves in The White Goddess, “Woman is not a poet: she is either muse or she is nothing”, adding that this doesn’t mean women can’t write poems, but that the woman who chooses to do so: “must be the Muse in the complete sense: she should be in turn Arianrhod, Blodeuwedd, and the Old Sow of Maenawr Penardd who eats her farrow, and should write in each of these capacities with an antique authority. She should be the visible moon: impartial, loving, serene, wise”. 

 

By this definition, Lana is a true poet.

[litewave 519]

Do you think it's possible Lana could be trying to finish the life of Jim Morrison but without dying young so she could finish his work maybe?

 

I think that in her art, Lana is finishing not just Jim Morrison but the whole period of human history that is marked by separation between human and God. She reminds us of the glorious, vibrant but long forgotten beginning where we lived in harmony with the divine and to this end she invokes imagery of an early stage of a fateful romantic relationship, biblical paradise and idealized aspects of American past. She also recounts how this initial harmony was lost and we were plunged into darkness but holds out the hope for eventual reunion that now seems imminent ("Feet don't fail me now, take me to the finish line").

[litewave 519]

The image in the middle of the vinyl looks interesting:

 

 

It also appears in the booklet:

 

 

At first sight it is striking that the three flags are affixed on a cross of sorts, with the two smaller flags on the sides predominantly blue and red respectively, while the US flag on top is a more balanced combination of blue and red and of course white, which is the union of all colors. Again, connotations of political right wing (individualism/ego) and left wing (collectivism/soul), subsumed in the larger reality that is United States of America. These fundamental principles are also expressed in the Christian concept of the Holy Trinity, with the analytic Logos (Son) and the holistic Pneuma (Holy Spirit) being subsumed in their source, the Father.

 

The predominantly blue flag appears to be of United States Navy and the predominantly red one of United States Marine Corps. The Navy and the Marines have a close relationship; they are both administered by the US Department of the Navy, and the Navy serves as a sea base for projecting the Marine soldiers onto the land or into the air. Which symbolically corresponds to a soul projecting its ego out of the soul's more unified/blended world into the more sharply differentiated world of the ego, or the ultimate soul projecting its egos.

[DeadAgainst 1,515]

50 States = 50 Gates of Binah at the Still Pole of the World-Axis between the Blue and Red of Mercy and Severity

 

Simone's Other Woman: http://www.oocities.org/writingryan/beauvoir.html

 

Boy look at you, looking at me

I know you don't understand

You could be a bad motherfucker

But that don't make you a man

Now you're just another one of my problems

Because you got out of hand

We won't survive

We're sinking into the sand

 

     According to Beauvoir, man is "the one" and woman "the other." This is because,

"'Man can think of himself without woman. She cannot think of herself without man.'"

(p.xiii) Woman is a nonessential creature because man is defined and differentiated with

reference to man. He is not defined in reference to woman because is the essential, the

Absolute, the One. She is simply the Other.

     She accepts this role as the other for several reasons. One is that this nature of

otherness appears to be absolute - "it lacks the contingent or incidental nature of historical

facts." (p.xv) If women could look back to a time when they were not inessential and see

when and how they came to be such, they would know that it was possible, even

precedented, that they not be the Other. A nature that was brought about by a certain set

of conditions could be abolished by some other set of conditions. There is not, however,

such a time for them to look back to. Because of this, "she herself fails to bring about this

change." (p.xvi) ... "She is the Other in a totality of which two

components are necessary to one another."(p.xvii)

     A third reason offered by Beauvoir is that women are happy in their role - or at

least n ot so discontented to give up the positive aspects of being the Other because, "To

decline to be the Other, to refuse to be a party to the deal-this would be for women to

renounce all of the advantages conferred upon them by their alliance with the superior

caste." (p. xvii) Because she associates with similar men, as opposed to other women, she

cannot easily leave the men and go with women of another race, class, or ethnicity. She

has chosen her role as the other over that of empowerment because they, "may fail to lay

claim to the status of subject because she lacks definite resources, because she feel s th

enecesarry bond that ties her to man regardless of reciprocity, and because she is often

very well pleased with her role."(p.xviii)

     One final reason that Beauvoir at least infers for women accepting their role as the

Other is because men advocate, if not mandate, that they do. In a quote from Poulain de la

Barre she says, "'Being men, those who have made and compiled the laws have favored

their own sex, and jurists have elevated these laws into principles,'"(p.xvii) because "the

males could not enjoy this privilege fully unless the believed it to be founded on the

absolute and eternal; they sought to make the fact of their supremacy into a right."...

     "There is no way out for her than to lose herself, body and soul, in  him who is

     represented to her as the absolute, as the essential. Since she is anyway doomed

     to dependence, she will prefer to serve a god rather than obey tyrants...She 

     chooses to desire her enslavement so ardently that it will seem to her the 

     expression of her liberty."(p. 643)

Beauvoir then uses quotes from both Byron and Nietzsche to express the concept of

difference between men and women's conceptions of love. Each says that women feel that

love is the total and entire devotion of themselves to man - to the point of willingly

annihilating themselves. To men, on the other hand, "the beloved woman is only one value

among others; the wish to integrate her into their existence and not squander it entirely on

her." (p. 642) 

     The mystic is Beauvoir's example of a woman in love, to the point of worshipping

man as god. It is a picture of how women love. She says that, "most women mystics are

not content with abandoning themselves passively to God: they apply themselves actively

to self-annihilation by the destruction of their flesh." (p.675) Of these mystics she says,

"All she can do is abandon herself to His fires without resistance." Because she has made

the choice to worship man, instead of simply obeying tyrants, her devotion to losing

herself in him makes him indistinguishable from god.

 

 

Religion.m4a = Salvatore as the "Savior"

 

The One as Shiva/Adam; the Other as Shakti/Eve, running and returning from each other down in Kali-fornia Dark Paradise.

 

To look for love by plumbing the depths of the unconscious, "deeper and deeper," is the mystic's path ...

 

Darling, dive deep and dark blue suede

Rushing up from the water where the ice meets

 

 

The Blackest Dei: Kali means "beyond time"; Atlantic says: "Her career is all about music as a time warp, with her languorous croons over molasses-like arrangements meant to make clock hands seem to move so slowly that it feels possible, at times, they might go backwards."

 

The pole at the center of the spinning record, or Aurora's spinning wheel.

[litewave 519]

 

50 States = 50 Gates of Binah at the Still Pole of the World-Axis between the Blue and Red of Mercy and Severity

 

 

I wonder, why Binah (the archetype of femininity)?

[litewave 519]

In a sense, Lana seems to have reenacted the three-part story of Tropico with her albums Born To Die/Paradise, Ultraviolence and Honeymoon. BTD/P was her birth on the world scene and had a heavenly lush production; Ultraviolence was grittier and extra dark, both musically and lyrically; and Honeymoon is softer again and despite the persistence of dark themes the title sounds like a climax of happiness. The Honeymoon booklet is pretty colorful too. Moreover, the three eras sort of correlated with Lana's personal life. She was in love with her then boyfriend in the first era; second era was rough for her - separation and the media troubles; now she seems in a better place again. It's like she's gone through Tropico in her real life...

[Nastja 15]

Im super excited for your interpretations of Honeymoon in the next weeks/months

[LoreleiLee 1,306]

I have noticed a pattern in Lana's work that repeats, considering exchange between young lover and old caregiver: women have two kinds of animus, that haunt them in their dreams.

 

These are the excerpts from the essay about my work, since I deal somehow with psychoanalysis, and partially with esotericism – I am not an expert - (some lines I remolded, and accentuated the examples of Lana's work or stages of progression on wavy spiritual axis, since her and my work overlap in some spots and knots):

 

The main characters of my (and sometimes her) psychodrama are animus and anima, plus carnivorous demon or notorious double, and central actor, myself, with all aspects and archetypes of feminity and psyche. I found an interesting notion about how animus works inside the woman; he is either young, mad and bad rebel (tattooed, temperamental and wasted, with his gang, „you were a dick with your crew“ - Lana) that through visions and dreams reminds overly independent, busy, strong, stubborn amazonian superwoman that she needs to loosen up, or the old, scary, monstruous man (ancient sugardaddy with goldmine and thick cigar, mafioso or tutor/manager - Lana)  who is after  puella aeterna to face her with neccesity of taking responsibility for herself and to grow up, to face her demons and to resolve sexual ambuiguity, frustrations, fears, dependency to kindness of strangers, and playing victim.

 

Puella aeterna is in Lana's case Lolita lost in herself, seductive, provocative, teasing, manipulative, naughty girl, unaware of her intoxicating sexual effect on men and of her psychic core, and she is doing all sorts of acrobacies to rest in that blessed state of being taken care off, because she, with her non-sublimated desires and youngster inner flames and hurricanes, represents certain danger mostly to herself.

 

Then -  when woman is daydreaming while doing random things, it is the devil's playground and the perfect surrounding for animus to become malignant, terrifying and paranoia-inducing, so she must harness her intellect and creativity and do something concrete, build something lasting, perennial and  precious that will reflect her soul and affirm her identity, and maybe be valuable for society (or change other people's lives with her vision and creation). Lana greatly captured that danger of adverting her precious attention of her greater, sublime mission by citing verses about Lady of Shalott, who loses sight off her weave and looks down to irresistible knight, who symbolizes fatal distraction, and she loses focus and sacred mission.

 

And before, she was split between puella aeterna and amazonian, because both young enfant terrible and corrugated father figure were after her (she was obsessed with them, because they assaulted the fortress of her mind and emotional chambers). Now, when she approaches her individuation, situation is reversed, she is, as a ghost, after them: she represents their conscience, sometimes bad, because they realized they treated her poorly and stabbed her heart to pieces (in videos like „West Coast“ and „Shades of Cool“). But there she is also beautiful, yet melancholy reminiscence, a fatamorgana that is like god's miracle, or good hearted and platonic succubus, not black as vampire, but white as angelic creature. She is mature enough not to take nightmarish revenge.

 

She  played with various stages and roles of feminity, from a fragile, porcelain doll that stands for innocence, tenderness and being lost in the world, that is, the puella aeterna (a girl that hesitates to grow up, has daddy issues, is helpless and searches for her prince on the white horse – all those idealistic features), to the grown woman whose psyche and social conditioning is forcing her to change masks and personas; in other words, from doll and nymph, to virgin, whore, amazon warrior, vamp, femme fatale, empress, priestess and magician. Lana  searches for her holy grail of identity (ok, you've also said something similar);  the aim of that expedition is spiritual androginy, or masculine reason married with feminine emotions, intuition and wisdom that is tightly connected with wilderness and power of nature.

Masculine also represents civilisation, and feminity vulcanic and oceanic instincts, unstoppable and transformative. Hollywood is masculine for its ambition and structure of power, but feminine because of decadence, chaos, voluptusity, passion and dreams that are coagulated there.

 

As far as mythologic creatures go, I am as equally enchanted by Hecate, three-faced goddess, and Lilith, first Adam's wife, because the latter is one strong and independent woman that refused to subdue to man, but she also has her dark side, living at the bottom of the ocean and killing and eating children of married women. She fights against the system and is revolutionary, subversive element, thorn in the eye of patriarchal society, and also represents sexual freedom and confidence, and being in charge of her own body and sexuality (which facet of herself Lana started  to welcome in Ride already; she showed it in Ultraviolence songs tinted with rage, fury, revenge and pride – „so happy now you're gone“, „I want money, power, glory“, „you should run, boy, run“, „I'm a dragon, you're a whore“).

 

And Hecate is female magician that has active impact on reality. She is also a creature of the night and moon (Honeymoon), from the dynasty of chtonic goddeses, related to secrecy, magic, darkness and descent into downward spirals of lower astrals, so to say (correct me if I am wrong about astrals – I know by now that lower ones are the dark and dangerous place when soul can loose its grip and person can descend to insanity if he or she is not ready to face demons or darkest and most hidden aspects of themselves). Feminity is still territory that appears as a dark jungle of irrationality, capriciousness, elusiveness and mystery, as in famous Freud's question, „What does a woman want“ that perpetuates the enigma of feminine soul. Because, female sexuality is a „dark continent“.

 

 And Lana's repetitive chanting „dark blue, dark blue“ and involving moon in the title of her album can be accepting her feminity, strong, integrated one, in totality: she is now her own and everyone else's mother, lover, child and sister. Oceanic depths and magnificent vastness of the harmonies and her return to chtonic, aquatic and lunar empire of goddess qualities are a sign of her curing from horrific turmoils from the past and skeletons in the wardrobe: she is lulled in the honey craddle of the night system of imaginative (Gilbert Durand), vs. day system. Second is schizoid, phalic, black and white, ambitious, controlling, rigid, stubborn, warrior-like and unapologetic, first is dark, soft, vividly colored in all tones of gems, fertile and soothing. It alchemically turns toxic spikes of depression into tender, balming, fructiferous feathers and furs of melancholia, which also contains sorrow, but that sorrow doesn't have destructive, but integrative quality. And it incites profusion of creative juices.

 

Also, Melusine is one of the water creatures, and one of her incarnations is Lady Of The Lake, which is connected with the time of Sir Lancelot, the same knight that Lady Of Shalott looses her mind and life upon. And Lorelei is also one of the water/river nymphs ( ) - it is a name of the character Marilyn Monroe, Lana's mother, played in the movie "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" (ok, the color of the hair is here irrelevant). And, Lana went a long road from sirens, also naiades and ondines, that have their master, Greek god of the ocean, Poseidon, therefore, are in the lower row, to eternal, comprehensive and supreme mother of the whole Ocean (High By The Beach might associate to the Queen by her Kingdom, and swelling ocean tide, which is the culmination of her feminity and feeling secure and magnificent in her own skin, needing nobody). - "Leave me alone, you phalic, penetrative, flashing, bullet-like paparazzi, I want to indulge myself in my soft, warm, delightful nest, which is a womb I came from, I am and I will be for more enchanting hymns of surf noir sadcore." She is now female Poseidon.

 

I have also read that in gnostic cults there were orgies were many men and women were indulging sexual activities, but that sex was depersonalized (in contrast with egotistical sex between two romantically involved individuals or procreative sex with purely biological purpose) – it was an orgiastic, ecstatic tool to reach the contact with God and celebrate metaphysical myth; therefore, I would describe Lana's viscose and versatile sexuality in Ride with a bunch of free spirited bikers as her aim to transcend her lower being through sacred sexual submission to those masculine compadres and cock sparrows.

 

Lana's ambiguity between fanatic devotion to her object of unconditional love ("you are my religion, you're how I'm living") and resurrected, magically transformed, wide-winged supervixen ("I'll do it on my own/I don't need your money") reminds me of Persephone and her double life/dual nature (one part of the year she spends with Hades, darksome and occult god of Underground/Hell, where she is entrapped and sacrificed, dependent and addicted - boyfriend, sugar daddy, cult leader; the other on the surface with her mother Demeter, goddess of fertility and harvest, i.e. with her grown up, autonomous self.

 

And, concerning polarity between male and female in one person: Lana is a serial dater (as far as I remember from everything I've read, she always had long-term boyfriend, shorter adventure or fuck-buddy). As long as she will search resolving of her inner conflicts, excitement, fulfillment and protection in other people, i.e. men, she will never attain perfect balance of male and female energy inside herself. As visual artist and performer Marina Abramovic said in her manifesto, artist must spend a lot of time alone, in the house, on the top of the mountain, in the forrest, by the ocean, nevermind, but alone and contemplating, in the deepest contact with his or her innermost and truest and barest self and elements of nature and the universe. Nevertheless, there are different approaches, and Lana operates differently than Abramovic, but significant moments of solitude and absolute independence are crucial for one's integration and individuation, in Jungian and in mundane terms.

 

These are just my amateurish musings.

[letsescapelizzy 672]

I have noticed a pattern in Lana's work that repeats, considering exchange between young lover and old caregiver: women have two kinds of animus, that haunt them in their dreams.

 

These are the excerpts from the essay about my work, since I deal somehow with psychoanalysis, and partially with esotericism – I am not an expert - (some lines I remolded, and accentuated the examples of Lana's work or stages of progression on wavy spiritual axis, since her and my work overlap in some spots and knots):

 

The main characters of my (and sometimes her) psychodrama are animus and anima, plus carnivorous demon or notorious double, and central actor, myself, with all aspects of feminity and psyche. I found an interesting notion about how animus works inside the woman; he is either young, mad and bad rebel (tattooed, temperamental and wasted, with his gang, „you were a dick with your crew“ - Lana) that through visions and dreams reminds overly independent, busy, strong, stubborn amazonian superwoman that she needs to loosen up, or the old, scary, monstruous man (ancient sugardaddy with goldmine and thick cigar, mafioso or tutor/manager - Lana)  who is after  puella aeterna to face her with neccesity of taking responsibility for herself and to grow up, to face her demons and to resolve sexual ambuiguity, frustrations, fears, dependency to kindness of strangers, and playing victim.

 

Puella aeterna is in Lana's case Lolita lost in herself, seductive, provocative, teasing, manipulative, naughty girl, unaware of her intoxicating sexual effect on men and of her psychic core, and she is doing all sorts of acrobacies to rest in that blessed state of being taken care off, because she, with her non-sublimated desires and youngster inner flames and hurricanes, represents certain danger mostly to herself.

 

Then -  when woman is daydreaming while doing random things, it is the devil's playground and the perfect surrounding for animus to become malignant, terrifying and paranoia-inducing, so she must harness her intellect and creativity and do something concrete, build something lasting, perennial and  precious that will reflect her soul and affirm her identity, and maybe be valuable for society (or change other people's lives with her vision and creation). Lana greatly captured that danger of adverting her precious attention of her greater, sublime mission by citing verses about Lady of Shalott, who loses sight off her weave and looks down to irresistible knight, who symbolizes fatal distraction, and she loses focus and sacred mission.

 

And before, she was split between puella aeterna and amazonian, because both young enfant terrible and corrugated father figure were after her (she was obsessed with them, because they assaulted the fortress of her mind and emotional chambers). Now, when she approaches her individuation, situation is reversed, she is, as a ghost, after them: she represents their conscience, sometimes bad, because they realized they treated her poorly and stabbed her heart to pieces (in videos like „West Coast“ and „Shades of Cool“). But there she is also beautiful, yet melancholy reminiscence, a fatamorgana that is like god's miracle, or good hearted and platonic succubus, not black as vampire, but white as angelic creature.

 

She  played with various stages and roles of feminity, from a fragile, porcelain doll that stands for innocence, tenderness and being lost in the world, that is, the puella aeterna (a girl that hesitates to grow up, has daddy issues, is helpless and searches for her prince on the white horse – all those idealistic features), to the grown woman whose psyche and social conditioning is forcing her to change masks and personas; in other words, from doll and nymph, to virgin, whore, amazon warrior, vamp, femme fatale, empress, priestess and magician. Lana  searches for her holy grail of identity (ok, you've also said something similar);  the aim of that expedition is spiritual androginy, or masculine reason married with feminine emotions, intuition and wisdom that is tightly connected with wilderness and power of nature.

Masculine also represents civilisation, and feminity vulcanic and oceanic instincts, unstoppable and transformative. Hollywood is masculine for its structure of power, but feminine because of decadence, chaos and dreams that are coagulated there.

 

As far as mythologic creatures go, I am as equally enchanted by Hecate, three-faced goddess, and Lilith, first Adam's wife, because the latter is one strong and independent woman that refused to subdue to man, but she also has her dark side, living at the bottom of the ocean and killing and eating children of married women. She fights against the system and is revolutionary, subversive element, thorn in the eye of patriarchal society, and also represents sexual freedom and confidence, and being in charge of her own body and sexuality (which facet of herself Lana started  to welcome in Ride already; she showed it in Ultraviolence songs tinted with rage, fury, revenge and pride – „so happy now you're gone“, „I want money, power, glory“, „you should run, boy, run“, „I'm a dragon, you're a whore“).

 

And Hecate is female magician that has active impact on reality. She is also a creature of the night and moon (Honeymoon), from the dynasty of chtonic goddeses, related to secrecy, magic, darkness and descent into downward spirals of lower astrals, so to say (correct me if I am wrong about astrals – I know by now that lower ones are the dark and dangerous place when soul can loose its grip and person can descend to insanity if he or she is not ready to face demons or darkest and most hidden aspects of themselves). Feminity is still territory that appears as a dark jungle of irrationality, capriciousness, elusiveness and mystery, as in famous Freud's question, „What does a woman want“ that perpetuates the enigma of feminine soul. Because, female sexuality is „dark continent“.

 

 And Lana's repetitive chanting „dark blue, dark blue“ and involving moon in the title of her album can be accepting her feminity, strong, integrated one, in totality: she is now her own and everyone else's mother, lover, child and sister. Oceanic depths and magnificent vastness of the harmonies and her return to chtonic, aquatic and lunar empire of goddess qualities are a sign of her curing from horrific turmoils from the past and skeletons in the wardrobe: she is lulled in the honey craddle of the night system of imaginative (Gilbert Durand), vs. day system. Second is schizoid, phalic, black and white, ambitious, controlling, rigid, stubborn, warrior-like and unapologetic, first is dark, soft, vividly colored in all tones of gems, fertile and soothing. It alchemically turns toxic spikes of depression into tender, balming, fructiferous feathers and furs of melancholia, which also contains sorrow, but that sorrow doesn't have destructive, but integrative quality. And it incites profusion of creative juices. Also, Melusine is one of the water creatures, and one of her incarnations is Lady Of The Lake, which is connected with the time of Sir Lancelot, the same knight that Lady Of Shalott looses her mind and life upon. And Lorelei is also one of the water/river nymphs ( ) - it is a name of the character Marilyn Monroe, Lana's mother, played in the movie "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" (ok, the color of the hair is here irrelevant). And, Lana went a long road from sirens, also naiades and ondines, that have their master, Greek god of ocean, Poseidon, therefore, are in the lower row, to eternal, comprehensive and supreme mother of the whole Ocean (High By The Beach might associate to the Queen by her Kingdom, and swelling ocean tide, which is the culmination of her feminity and feeling secure and magnificent in her own skin, needing nobody). - "Leave me alone, you phalic, penetrative, flashing, bullet-like paparazzi, I want to indulge myself in my soft, warm, delightful nest, which is a womb I came from, I am and I will be for more enchanting hymns of surf noir sadcore."

 

I have also read that in gnostic cults there were orgies were many men and women were indulging sexual activities, but that sex was depersonalized (in contrast with egotistical sex between two romantically involved individuals or procreative sex with purely biological purpose) – it was an orgiastic, ecstatic tool to reach the contact with God and celebrate metaphysical myth; therefore, I would describe Lana's viscose and versatile sexuality in Ride with a bunch of free spirited bikers as her aim to transcend her lower being through sacred sexual submission to those masculine compadres and cock sparrows.

 

And, concerning polarity between male and female in one person: Lana is a serial dater (as far as I remember from everything I've read, she always had long-term boyfriend, shorter adventure or fuck-buddy). As long as she will search resolving of her inner conflicts, excitement, fulfillment and protection in other people, i.e. men, she will never attain perfect balance of male and female energy inside herself. As visual artist and performer Marina Abramovic said in her manifesto, artist must spend a lot of time alone, in the house, on the top of the mountain, in the forrest, by the ocean, nevermind, but alone and contemplating, in the deepest contact with his or her innermost and truest and barest self and elements of nature and the universe. Nevertheless, there are different approaches, and Lana operates differently than Abramovic, but significant moments of solitude and absolute independence are crucial for one's integration and individuation, in Jungian and in mundane terms.

 

These are just my amateurish musings.

 

amtuerish? my ass.. holy fuck, pardon my french, but i've been slayed. You are an incredible mind and writer.

I think i'm much to dumb for this thread. Some of you posters above are blowing my mind..you're awesome..

who are you people? and where am i? :facepalm: :facepalm: :gclap: :gclap:

[LoreleiLee 1,306]

amtuerish? my ass.. holy fuck, pardon my french, but i've been slayed. You are an incredible mind and writer.

I think i'm much to dumb for this thread. Some of you posters above are blowing my mind..you're awesome..

who are you people? and where am i? :facepalm: :facepalm: :gclap: :gclap:

 

Thank you so much , but sirs above me have much more knowledge and they handle with more informations. I kind of summed up part of my knowledge on the theme in more poetic than factic way, plus, I actually didn't make so much reference to esoteric teachings, but more to mythology. But still

[letsescapelizzy 672]

Thank you so much , but sirs above me have much more knowledge and they handle with more informations. I kind of summed up part of my knowledge on the theme in more poetic than factic way, plus, I actually didn't make so much reference to esoteric teachings, but more to mythology. But still

 

Thank you so much LoreleiLee. You are truly incredible. I should go back to the begiining of thread and read it all.

Alot of it is hard to understand though, and i have to go over it again and again, so it will probably take awhile..

some incredible smart minds in this room. Much to learn for a dumbo like me.. like holy F***. expecially here, you

people run circles around me..lol..

[LoreleiLee 1,306]

Thank you so much LoreleiLee. You are truly incredible. I should go back to the begiining of thread and read it all.

Alot of it is hard to understand though, and i have to go over it again and again, so it will probably take awhile..

some incredible smart minds in this room. Much to learn for a dumbo like me.. like holy F***. expecially here, you

people run circles around me..lol..

 

 

Don't put yourself down, all of us have to learn through the whole lifetime.  

[letsescapelizzy 672]

Don't put yourself down, all of us have to learn through the whole lifetime.  

 

Thank you, yes you are right.. 

 

was going to say tho.. which lifetime, the ones before or the afterlife to come??       

[LoreleiLee 1,306]

Thank you, yes you are right.. 

 

was going to say tho.. which lifetime, the ones before or the afterlife to come??     

 

For some reason I believe in reincarnation, so both

[TRENCH 15,450]

I understand everything in this tread but what exactly is it that you all are interpreting or what answer are Yall seeking from Lanas journey between each song/album?

 

idk how to put it in words 

[LoreleiLee 1,306]

I understand everything in this tread but what exactly is it that you all are interpreting or what answer are Yall seeking from Lanas journey between each song/album?

 

idk how to put it in words 

 

I am doing it for fun and some brain gymnastics, without pretension for something bigger than life. And Lana is voluntary a public person, so she (and her opus) serves as screen for projecting our own wishes, dreams, desires, identifications or disagreements, thoughts, analyses etc. I don't know about the others. For me, meanders of her own jurney clarify some things in my own life, and I enjoy reading litewave and DeadAgainst because I'm seriously interested in esoterics, metaphysics and philosophy in general, since highschool. And those fields of human knowledge and experience are much easier to understand when compared with something familiar, something that we love and appreciate and are fascinated by, and is also a part of popular culture.

[litewave 519]

Thank you Lorelei for the colorful description of the tension between masculinity and femininity and their integration in a woman. I am not sure what a perfect balance between the two would be, considering also the dispositions of one's body, but a certain degree of flexibility is surely desirable and healthy.

[litewave 519]

I understand everything in this tread but what exactly is it that you all are interpreting or what answer are Yall seeking from Lanas journey between each song/album?

 

idk how to put it in words 

 

I don't know exactly either, but it seems to me that Lana's art is a sign of a wider phenomenon - of an emerging spiritual awareness in our society.

[DeadAgainst 1,515]

She  played with various stages and roles of feminity, from a fragile, porcelain doll that stands for innocence, tenderness and being lost in the world, that is, the puella aeterna (a girl that hesitates to grow up, has daddy issues, is helpless and searches for her prince on the white horse – all those idealistic features), to the grown woman whose psyche and social conditioning is forcing her to change masks and personas; in other words, from doll and nymph, to virgin, whore, amazon warrior, vamp, femme fatale, empress, priestess and magician. Lana  searches for her holy grail of identity (ok, you've also said something similar);  the aim of that expedition is spiritual androginy, or masculine reason married with feminine emotions, intuition and wisdom that is tightly connected with wilderness and power of nature.

...

Lana's ambiguity between fanatic devotion to her object of unconditional love ("you are my religion, you're how I'm living") and resurrected, magically transformed, wide-winged supervixen ("I'll do it on my own/I don't need your money") reminds me of Persephone and her double life/dual nature (one part of the year she spends with Hades, darksome and occult god of Underground/Hell, where she is entrapped and sacrificed, dependent and addicted - boyfriend, sugar daddy, cult leader; the other on the surface with her mother Demeter, goddess of fertility and harvest, i.e. with her grown up, autonomous self.

 

And, concerning polarity between male and female in one person: Lana is a serial dater (as far as I remember from everything I've read, she always had long-term boyfriend, shorter adventure or fuck-buddy). As long as she will search resolving of her inner conflicts, excitement, fulfillment and protection in other people, i.e. men, she will never attain perfect balance of male and female energy inside herself. As visual artist and performer Marina Abramovic said in her manifesto, artist must spend a lot of time alone, in the house, on the top of the mountain, in the forrest, by the ocean, nevermind, but alone and contemplating, in the deepest contact with his or her innermost and truest and barest self and elements of nature and the universe. Nevertheless, there are different approaches, and Lana operates differently than Abramovic, but significant moments of solitude and absolute independence are crucial for one's integration and individuation, in Jungian and in mundane terms.

 

Fantastic musings, all ...

 

Maybe the reason the Lanalysists can never get anywhere is that she flits so easily between projections and those same withdrawn projections transformed into the imaginal, archetypal world.

 

"Burnt Norton" divides between the idolized and worshipped goddess, impersonal and remote, and the desperate seeker -- i.e. the Public Persona as Other (the roses looked at) and the Private Individual.

 

The White Goddess is such only after passing through the Black. Lizzy in her Keds speaks of her Muse; of becoming her Muse, since such the female Poet must do.

 

You refer to her dual personae as Demeter and Persephone in the Mystery cultus. This fandom is basically the modern iteration of the Cult of Isis. Much more could be said there. The religious impulse is, again, a function of projection of an idealized Self onto an Other.

 

"I don’t focus on feminism, I focus on the future."

 

Lizzy most certainly encountered Teilhard de Chardin at Fordham (The Still Omega Point): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phenomenon_of_Man

 

The development of science and technology causes an expansion of the human sphere of influence, allowing a person to be simultaneously present in every corner of the world. Teilhard argues that humanity has thus become cosmopolitan, stretching a single organized membrane over the Earth.[10] Teilhard describes the process by which this happens as a "gigantic psychobiological operation, a sort of mega-synthesis, the “super-arrangement” to which all the thinking elements of the earth find themselves today individually and collectively subject".[8] The rapid expansion of the noosphere requires a new domain of psychical expansion, which "is staring us in the face if we would only raise our heads to look at it".[11]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point

 

Teilhard de Chardin's The Phenomenon of Man states that the Omega Point must possess the following five attributes. It is:

 

Already existing

Only thus can the rise of the universe towards higher stages of consciousness be explained.

Personal (an intellectual being and not an abstract idea)

The increasing complexity of matter has not only led to higher forms of consciousness,[5] but accordingly to more personalization, of which human beings are the highest attained form in the known universe.[6] They are completely individualized, free centers of operation. It is in this way that man is said[7] to be made in the image of God, who is the highest form of personality. Teilhard expressly stated that in the Omega Point, when the universe becomes One, human persons will not be suppressed, but super-personalized. Personality will be infinitely enriched. This is because the Omega Point unites creation, and the more it unites, the increasing complexity of the universe aids in higher levels of consciousness. Thus, as God creates, the universe evolves towards higher forms of complexity, consciousness, and finally with humans, personality, because God, who is drawing the universe towards Him, is a person.

Transcendent

The Omega Point cannot be the result of the universe's final complex stage of its own consciousness.[citation needed] Instead, the Omega Point must exist even before the universe's evolution, because the Omega Point is responsible for the rise of the universe towards more complexity, consciousness and personality. Which essentially means that the Omega Point is outside the framework in which the universe rises, because it is by the attraction of the Omega Point that the universe evolves towards Him.

 

 

 

This is described as a transition from a state of externalization (in the Without, all is Other) to a state of interiorization (in the Within or dark, burning heart of things)

 

http://teilharddechardin.org/index.php/forerunners-in-the-united-states

 

The American edition of The Phenomenon of Man was published by Harper & Row in 1959 (it had appeared in France in 1955 and in England in 1959). The Divine Milieu came out in 1960. By 1961 The Phenomenon of Man had already sold 90,000 copies in France and over 50,000 in the United States.

 

Early in the 1960s Fordham University became a center for the critical study of Teilhard, the first such center for serious study in this country. Teilhardian studies started slowly with Dr. Louis Marks in Biology and Joseph Donceel, S. J., in Philosophy introducing his thought in their lecture courses. There was also a short-lived Teilhard Circle under a former colleague of Teilhard, J. Franklin Ewing, S. J., whose object was to stimulate critical appraisal chiefly from an anthropological point of view. Ewert Cousins, who went to Fordham in 1960 to teach in the Classics Department and also to study in the Graduate Philosophy Department, remembers discovering a lively interest there.

[letsescapelizzy 672]

I don't know exactly either, but it seems to me that Lana's art is a sign of a wider phenomenon - of an emerging spiritual awareness in our society.

 

Hi Litewave, if you have time and feel like it, please elaborate further on this topic..

you are also a great writer, and i like to read your thoughts..

 

same to you @@DeadAgainst and @@LoreleiLee..