Honeymoon - Post-Release Discussion Thread + Poll

[WaitForLife 5,233]

I remember that she wanted to release a video for Dark Paradise in September 2012

[LittleFool 1,912]

I remember that she wanted to release a video for Dark Paradise in September 2012

That doesn't mean it's finished and just sitting on YouTube. It's already been established what the private video is.

[Valentino 885]

I'd rather listen to the May Jailer stuff than Paradise, I think that should give you an idea of how much I like it. 

For future reference, the Totally Absolute and Indisputable Canon of Lana Albums (Honeymoon currently excluded because I'm in the honeymoon period):

 

1. AKA (unique in sound and lyric, she still hadn't hung on to some of her lazier songwriting cliches, beautiful vocals except for her stupid fake southern accent)

2. Born To Die (sorry, UV fans Influential production, true sense of grandiosity, less reliance on repeating a single line for choruses. Some of her career-wide stereotypes start cementing themselves here, such as the bad boy, being doomed in love, being submissive. Some vocals and production were superior in demos)

3. Ultraviolence (repetitive choruses become more prominent, not a fan of Auerbach's production except on West Coast, which was inexplicably the only song on the album that sounded like that. More daring with vocals, but also some sloppy performances passed off as "raw" *side-eyes PWYC* She gets away from some of the old Lana trappings and starts singing about new stuff like a guru, being a hipster, and Lorde a pleasant lady who was inspired by Lana's sound)

4. Sirens + Sirens-era stuff (Beautiful bright, clear voice, none of the typical Lana imagery, no pretentions of artistry, it's just a girl singing about life and it's refreshing. Her guitar playing is very static and uninteresting, but by limiting herself to a few chords she comes up with some unexpected chord progressions.)

5. Paradise (literal trash, delete it fat   Nah, I don't feel that way. It's... eh. Lazy vocals, I think she said she recorded this record very quickly and it definitely shows. A lot of the songs are just okay, like Ride, G&M, Bel Air, and the covers/re-recordings don't fare much better. Songwriting was pretty static? At least if you include Burning Desire it's a little upbeat. Also not a fan of the production. Sorry Paradise fans  )

 

I don't really dislike any of her albums, to be fair. I have groups where there are albums I simply won't listen to. Because they're bad. But those weak albums came early in their careers, and Lana has been serving us surf noir/Hollywood sadcore/narco swing/future jazz bops since the beginning. Her truly awful stuff is, thankfully, unreleased. I'm including such gems as Delicious, Big Bad Wolf, Daddy Issues, Moi Je Joue. I truly challenge anyone talking about how there's not a single bad Lana song to show me the redeeming factors of Delicious. You can like it, of course (I sometimes like BBW) but there's no way you can argue that this song meets any standard of "good."

[Creyk 11,697]

 

 

I'd rather listen to the May Jailer stuff than Paradise, I think that should give you an idea of how much I like it. 

For future reference, the Totally Absolute and Indisputable Canon of Lana Albums (Honeymoon currently excluded because I'm in the honeymoon period):

 

1. AKA (unique in sound and lyric, she still hadn't hung on to some of her lazier songwriting cliches, beautiful vocals except for her stupid fake southern accent)

2. Born To Die (sorry, UV fans Influential production, true sense of grandiosity, less reliance on repeating a single line for choruses. Some of her career-wide stereotypes start cementing themselves here, such as the bad boy, being doomed in love, being submissive. Some vocals and production were superior in demos)

3. Ultraviolence (repetitive choruses become more prominent, not a fan of Auerbach's production except on West Coast, which was inexplicably the only song on the album that sounded like that. More daring with vocals, but also some sloppy performances passed off as "raw" *side-eyes PWYC* She gets away from some of the old Lana trappings and starts singing about new stuff like a guru, being a hipster, and Lorde a pleasant lady who was inspired by Lana's sound)

4. Sirens + Sirens-era stuff (Beautiful bright, clear voice, none of the typical Lana imagery, no pretentions of artistry, it's just a girl singing about life and it's refreshing. Her guitar playing is very static and uninteresting, but by limiting herself to a few chords she comes up with some unexpected chord progressions.)

5. Paradise (literal trash, delete it fat   Nah, I don't feel that way. It's... eh. Lazy vocals, I think she said she recorded this record very quickly and it definitely shows. A lot of the songs are just okay, like Ride, G&M, Bel Air, and the covers/re-recordings don't fare much better. Songwriting was pretty static? At least if you include Burning Desire it's a little upbeat. Also not a fan of the production. Sorry Paradise fans  )

 

I don't really dislike any of her albums, to be fair. I have groups where there are albums I simply won't listen to. Because they're bad. But those weak albums came early in their careers, and Lana has been serving us surf noir/Hollywood sadcore/narco swing/future jazz bops since the beginning. Her truly awful stuff is, thankfully, unreleased. I'm including such gems as Delicious, Big Bad Wolf, Daddy Issues, Moi Je Joue. I truly challenge anyone talking about how there's not a single bad Lana song to show me the redeeming factors of Delicious. You can like it, of course (I sometimes like BBW) but there's no way you can argue that this song meets any standard of "good."

Lol I like how you wrote this as if we depended on your opinion and it was THE official factual opinion that matters to everyone and all Lana fans abide by it

We crave your approval so bad daddy

[Wynwood 19,967]

i really need for lana to explore with some new producers, every album she would evolve more and more but with HM i feel like she took a large step backwards

[Valentino 885]

@@Creyk
I thought it'd be obvious it was a joke by how ridiculous it was.   I hoped calling it the freaking ~indisputable~ Canon and adding Important Capitals would really take it over the top into "not serious" territory, but it seems not.

My opinion is not the definitive one. Nobody's is. I'm well aware I'm not the Lord of Lana Music. 

 

I'll make sure to type all my responses in assembly code to prevent future misunderstandings.

[graham4anything 2,859]

There is no issue with songwriting.

 

IT is once again just the negative long post taken as a given when in fact, it wasn't true in the post it was in to start off with. It is called a straw man.

And if repeated strawmen become fact, when it was never true to begin with.

 

Her Honeymoon lyrics are actually quite witty, and also like me stream of conscious.

 

And High by the beach, we didn't even know the true meaning until the video came out.

 

More and more, Lana reminds me of Buddy Holly, and had Buddy Holly not died, he would be Lana Del Rey (conceptually).

I always pictured Buddy had he lived remaining in music his entire life, producing himself and others as he got older, and playing with a bunch of friends

in a community (in a way like Nashville songwriters do and the Wrecking Crew is (the Los Angelese studio musicians that populated thousands of albums in the 60s and 70s and 80s, etc.)

 

More and more, it also reminds me of Brian Wilson, and how some of his fans just want it to be 1963-4-5 all over again

and to only have Fun, Fun, Fun and wish everyone was California Girls and Surfin' USA and never wanting Brian Wilson to do what he himself wanted to do

(Like the original Smile album not being wanted).

 

But then some think Summertime Sadness (the original) was a happy bouncy fun lyric instead of it was about suicide.

 

I hope Lana never changes from doing whatever it is she wants to do today tomorrow and forever.

 

Perhaps Lana should send a message to the haters on her next album, next year- she should do My Way.

Perhaps she could do it as a 3 way with Nancy Sinatra and Leonard Cohen.

That would be a hoot.

[NikodemDeVault 227]

I hope Honeymoon gets nominated for a Grammy

But we all know that it won`t get any nomination      

[Nick Del Rey 5,279]

Well, she said in the Interview Magazine that she will bring in new producers and open up.

 

 

Who is currently really producing exciting stuff? Anybody has an idea? I mean, I hope she takes two years off and really focuses on different experiences and places that will hopefully improve her writing, but I find it hard to see her with some producers she has not worked with before and who are doing an amazing job.

 

Any ideas?

Lol maybe Abel's producer (The Weeknd)

[graham4anything 2,859]

Lana should self-produce, now that Honeymoon was the first where she has the first producer on every cut, she should be the only producer.

 

She knows in her head how it should sound.

No need to have some producer d'jour alter it.

 

Unless George Martin would come out of retirement.

 

Gus Dungeon would have been interesting (Elton's long time producer, but he died).

[Kommando 3,264]

I'm including such gems as Delicious, Big Bad Wolf, Daddy Issues, Moi Je Joue

come on Delicious is fuckin hilarious, that's genius in its most bare form.

 

4 Her guitar playing is very static and uninteresting, but by limiting herself to a few chords she comes up with some unexpected chord progressions.)

I don't think I ever saw anyone talk about it, but her guitar playing style is actually interesting, espacially after the Sirens stuff. Songs from the pre-AKA/AKA era like Disco, Oh Say Can You See, Yayo, For K P2... Have an unusual yet simple and original style of chords, very Cat power-like (which makes sense since she's a fan), minimalistic but also dark and folky, which suited her music. Mostly fingerpicking 2 fingers chords, which she probably came up with naturally from the way she used to play major chords in the Sirens era. I wonder if she's still writing on the guitar tho, the Joshy & I leak was recorded around 2010-2011 and if she's the one playing in the recording, it's possible she's playing the bass ( ) or most likely a guitar in an alternate tuning, which would be a very interesting development in her guitar style. Can't wait for her to be 45 and do an accoustic tour, Graham4everything tea.

 

Also about her decline in quality as a writer, apart from the fact that she doesn't seek inspiration somewhere else etc... I think the biggest issue is the shift in her writing process. She's always improvised songs lyrics, but from the AKA/BTD interviews it's clear that she also spent a lot of time writing, correcting, assembling the lyrics and her ideas... Crafting the whole thing in maybe a more pragmatic fashion. Since UV I think she doesn't really talk about writing lyrics or working on songs that way, it seems like it's mostly improvisation/figuring out lyrics rather than maybe sitting down afterwards to work on them, examples being PWYC or HBTB. We can't really know, but now she just looks easily satisfied by her writing while she's spending months on the mixing, when obviously there's some issues on the songwriting.

 

She just needs to put new perspective in her work and also to change her environment, which is composed in parts, of people sucking her ass 24/7 (her composers like Rick, her team, some random "artists" that stick around her), people being really harmful to her work and her personally (I think HM is the first record where she doesn't have any of the plain stupid pressures she got from Interscope) and also her working with people that aren't suited for her craft/aren't that competent just because she likes them (her sister etc).

[neuf 197]

Are there no confirmed bonus tracks or anything?  Nothing listed on her publisher's site as registered with the Honeymoon songs?

[leaked_version 10,499]

Well, she said in the Interview Magazine that she will bring in new producers and open up.

 

 

Who is currently really producing exciting stuff? Anybody has an idea? I mean, I hope she takes two years off and really focuses on different experiences and places that will hopefully improve her writing, but I find it hard to see her with some producers she has not worked with before and who are doing an amazing job.

 

Any ideas?

[lernerderrey 2,415]

Well, she said in the Interview Magazine that she will bring in new producers and open up.

 

 

Who is currently really producing exciting stuff? Anybody has an idea? I mean, I hope she takes two years off and really focuses on different experiences and places that will hopefully improve her writing, but I find it hard to see her with some producers she has not worked with before and who are doing an amazing job.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

i think she should slowly rerecord some old songs with a new producer, put out a small EP(4 or 5 songs) in a year or two, while working on an album with new material for a few years(like 3 years). that way she is working, learning (going back and studying older work can bring new perspective, she can weave her new thoughts into her new work), making money, and whatever.

[DeadAgainst 1,515]

Please let her meet Steve Albini in the next strip club

[essiductonto 170]

I love the lyrics on Honeymoon, I would always describe Lana's lyrical style as deceptively simple and that's one of the things I love about her. It's not just about the lyrics but the way she sings them, for example in Music to Watch Boys To, "I live to love you and I love to love you and I live to love you Boy" might sound kind of cliched, but the way she sings it gives the impression that she's faking it, she doesn't mean what she says but is just playing along, for whatever reason. 

[Valentino 885]

I don't think I ever saw anyone talk about it, but her guitar playing style is actually interesting, espacially after the Sirens stuff. Songs from the pre-AKA/AKA era like Disco, Oh Say Can You See, Yayo, For K P2... Have an unusual yet simple and original style of chords, very Cat power-like (which makes sense since she's a fan), minimalistic but also dark and folky, which suited her music. Mostly fingerpicking 2 fingers chords, which she probably came up with naturally from the way she used to play major chords in the Sirens era. I wonder if she's still writing on the guitar tho, the Joshy & I leak was recorded around 2010-2011 and if she's the one playing in the recording, it's possible she's playing the bass ( ) or most likely a guitar in an alternate tuning, which would be a very interesting development in her guitar style. Can't wait for her to be 45 and do an accoustic tour, Graham4everything tea.

I agree it's interesting to see how her guitar playing changes. Disco, Axl Rose Husband, OSCYS, those have a very simple pattern, it sounds like she's just playing octaves to my ear (though I'd need to check). On Sirens, her guitar playing is more advanced, with a more complicated plucking pattern. She doesn't strum much, except on Move. I bet you she practiced long and hard for Sirens, because none of her laptop stuff is like that. You can even hear her stumbling during "Bad Disease" and slowing down her vocals momentarily to make up for it. I think she said in an interview that she just "sucked" at playing guitar, and that's why she stopped. I think it helped her come up with cool sounds, though. Like the chorus of Drive-By is I i I i I VII I (in the key of C, it'd be C Cm C Cm C Bb C). I've never heard that before. And there are probably other cool things like that scattered through Sirens that happened because of her limitations as a guitar player. She said she only learned 4 chords, but it can't literally be true (we can just look at every chord played in Sirens to make sure  ), although I'm certain it was a very limited number. I think she said F or B was hard? Anyway, she managed to take the few chords she could play and come up with interesting sounds. That's creativity!

 

Also her acappella stuff shows her experimenting a lot with harmonies, like Bentley. Carmen is actually pretty interesting as a demo because you've got parallel fourths or fifths above the melody line during the chorus, and then a picardy third at the very end. She never studied music theory, so she came up with that stuff on her own. Off the top of my head, Lady Gaga is the only other pop music artist that I've heard picardy thirds (So happy I could die) (don't complain that Lana isn't pop, I'm using pop as a catch-all compared to folk or "art" music).

 

I don't know how she writes songs nowadays. There's supposed to be a Cola laptop demo, but we've never gotten that. I don't think we have demos for any of the UV songs except maybe the "radio mix" of West Coast. We know a segment was cut from Cruel World. But if she doesn't use her guitar or create acappellas... how is she writing nowadays? Acappellas are what people who don't play an instrument use to write music (see: Michael Jackson's demo for Beat It). She's said she sits down to write at the same time every day "because your muse will know where to find you," but her process is still shrouded in mystery. If only interviewers asked about this stuff instead of the tired "feminism? depression? fashion?" questions.

 

Also about her decline in quality as a writer, apart from the fact that she doesn't seek inspiration somewhere else etc... I think the biggest issue is the shift in her writing process. She's always improvised songs lyrics, but from the AKA/BTD interviews it's clear that she also spent a lot of time writing, correcting, assembling the lyrics and her ideas... Crafting the whole thing in maybe a more pragmatic fashion. Since UV I think she doesn't really talk about writing lyrics or working on songs that way, it seems like it's mostly improvisation/figuring out lyrics rather than maybe sitting down afterwards to work on them, examples being PWYC or HBTB. We can't really know, but now she just looks easily satisfied by her writing while she's spending months on the mixing, when obviously there's some issues on the songwriting.

 

She just needs to put new perspective in her work and also to change her environment, which is composed in parts, of people sucking her ass 24/7 (her composers like Rick, her team, some random "artists" that stick around her), people being really harmful to her work and her personally (I think HM is the first record where she doesn't have any one the plain stupid pressures she got from Interscope) and also her working with people that aren't suited for her craft/aren't that competent just because she likes them (her sister etc).

Be honest with me... are you talking about James Franco? Or is there someone else we should know about?

[WaitForLife 5,233]

Summertime Sadness is about suicide?

[letsescapelizzy 672]

she had an aqaintance that committed suicide. (like most of us, we all know people whom have 'offed' themselves..)

 

As far as people talking about the hate, thats getting so old. Every artist is loved AND hated, by people.

Who really cares I say? We dont need to over compensate and make up things in our minds that are not in

any reality, and completely untrue. Its funny how defensive people get, and how they embilish and tell stories.

This is not directed at anyone in particular, you see it everywhere.

 

Lana has great supporters, she is not a fragile little flower crumbling in the corner at posts on lanaboards, LOL..

quite the contrary be it known. LOL.

 

Anyway, guess thats what fan forums are about..i'm fine with HM, and anyones opinions on it.

Its a nice album, from a nice artist named Lizzy Grant. Finito.

[Valentino 885]

Summertime Sadness is about suicide?

 

The video is supposed to be about a friend committing suicide. At least, so I've heard. If someone can provide links to interviews proving this, I'd love to see it.

 

She once said in an interview that Summertime Sadness was "about nothing." Songs, after all, don't have to be about personal experience. Or anything at all. And the meaning of a song does not have to hinge on its video, either - the two can be independent.