Summersault

On 6/16/2022 at 5:36 PM, mlittle11 said:

did we consider that lana might be saying “whatever happened to the girl i threw in the wasteland” bc it makes sense and lana may have changed up the lyrics just to add a lil bit of a personal touch

This song was the soundtrack of my summer, I've listened to it so many times and  I still can't figure it out. Knew? Threw? Thew?

Also I love how much FJM's writing style suits her. Like this could legit have been a Lana song. They  are twin flames who should collab much more than they already do. 

On 8/10/2022 at 9:46 PM, Surf Noir said:

 

i don’t agree with this idea that the whole “fame is so awful & i’m the underdog” thing was planned or intentional, i highly doubt lana intended to have a bad SNL performance, or to have people completely disregard her music or her as a person because of a few plastic surgery procedures or the simple fact that she changed her stage name, she was clearly traumatized by these intial reactions & still had to deal with it with further controversies (the “i wish i was dead” comment, qftc, the body-shaming, etc.) i don’t think it’s fair to say that she has to deal with the consequences of these things, she doesn’t deserve to have trauma from her fame, & i feel like she should have the right to dislike fame without people telling her it’s annoying or that she shouldn’t complain, maybe people should’ve treated her better to begin with

Re: The underdog angle

My own possibly unpopulary opinion is, that while I strongly agree that the initial backlash wasn't planned and  must have been very traumatizing, she lacks self awareness as to how it comes off when she pulls out the "I'm the underdog"-trope again and again years later now that she's litterally a rich, succesful, critically acclaimed celebrity singer who most critics would agree has had significant impact on pop culture. Like...what more do you want girl? A statue? It gets especially aggrevating when she uses it as a shield against any kind of criticism, like when she went on her Insta-rants a few years back. 

At the end of the day she is only human. I can't blame her for being stuck on that, I would probably be the same way to be honest. Unlike us, Lana doesn't have the luxury of analyzing her own life from the outside and making coolheaded decisions about how to feel about trauma that happened to her depending on what looks best to the public. We're all the protagonists in our own stories. But I sometimes wish that she had a good PR manager who would tell her to go easy on that angle. But then again she wouldn't be Lana.   

Me @ this new reponse:

2. I didn’t get that impression from her letter at all. All I got is that she wants to feel normalized get to the point of these woman to be able to express HERself. She’s painting herself as the “victim” YES but in no way she’s discrediting these other women’s struggles. And I think don’t she needs to write ten more paragraphs explaining Doja cat struggle working with dr Luke or Nicki supporting a convicted rapist or Camila saying NiGGURH.

I can see why you (or I for that matter) don't get that impression. We're giving her the benefit of the doubt. 

But I also think it's a fair point that for those women their sexuality is exactly part of why they've been criticized or held to double standards too by critics through out the years. As if Nicki or Beyoncé haven't had backlash against them exactly because  of them sexualizing themselves in paticular ways. Emma Watson critcizing Beyonce for showing off her body too much and how that was unfeminist of her i.e. comes to mind. Not saying whether Emma's point was valid or not, just noticing how these female artists' sexuality are not that "normalized" afterall. They're pretty much in the same boat as Lana in many ways, so why hold them up as counter examples ?  

3. She did acknowledged her success. 

 

Which it did, Born To Die sold well influenced a generation.

She's complaining like "can I go back to singing about.." as if she hasn't been doing exactly that to great acclaim with a thriving career for the better part of a decade. If you're not in a kind mood when reading her letter, Lana implies that she's been struggling with watching her artistic work influence the world to little acclaim until recently and seeing other artists thrive while she herself has been shunned by critics, feminists, the likes. That is not exactly true and I can see why people call her out on it. 

Yes, when reading her letter in a nuaced way that lends her the benefit of the doubt she has very valid points. But she doesn't make it easy for herself to be understood ("I'm not not a feminist"?????) and then she get's very upset that people misunderstands her.  

Regarding my opinions on her letter. I don’t see anything wrong with it. I can see how she could come across as condescending to some people but there were no anti black undertones or whatever at all.

 

The first paragraph of her describing those artists music as sex, naked, cheating etc it didn’t come from a bad place whatsoever. She was literally just saying it to mirror what some critics thought of those woman (disregarding the integrity of their music demeaning it to just sex). In the same way to how HER OWN music was deemed as “glamorizing abuse”. It was just oddly phrased. Someone could read that and thought she’s belittling those women. She’s saying it the same way her haters would call her music boring, dull, death etc. The explicit word use like “fuck” got people brain rilled up. When Lana causally use those words lol.

 

Some people got ticked off because Lana described Beyoncé and Necki’s music as “fucking, cheating” While describing her own music by putting it on a pedestal as “being in love, beautiful etc”.......but her whole point is that fucking, cheating, wearing no clothes is NOT bad. And you should not looking it as bad because I’ve been through it too because my music was dull, death, abusive etc. 

 

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.

And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...

1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 

2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....

3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.

So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

whats sadder is that you can imagine the valid criticism and points people were making were probably the last messages she took from all this.  when tons of people are sending you explicit hate,  most of it totally unwarranted,  i doubt her takeaway has been the few people who attempted to criticize the post with valid concerns

 

i want to believe this is why she doubled down, and seemingly wasn't able to see what some were trying to say.... because i think the natural response to having your words taken this way, would be 'im SO sorry for making it seem that way, that wasn't what i meant at all' 

 

like where's her apology to all the WOC she hurt?   i think if this wasn't so explosive, she'd be able to see her words hurt people she wasn't intending to

Yes, I think you're absolutely right.

It has become increasingly clear through the years that Lana is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from the media and tastemakers in general. And yes, she did get a lot of unwarranted and unfair criticism at first. I can understand being mad about it and speaking on it. However it seems like she's completely unable to weigh it up against the rivers of critical acclaim and accolades she has recieved since the years after her debut. She's it very bitter still and it clouds her judgement sometimes. 

She's so keen on framing herself as the percecuted artist that she doesn't see the bigger picture and how other female artists - of colour or not - are also treated unfairly by the media a lot. Maybe not in the completely same way but unfairly none the less. It's a bad look to frame them as somehow different from herself in that regards.

Love her to death, but I'm only half joking when I say she needs a spin doctor who can help formulate her thought on politics and society. Almost everytime she tries to get political she kinda puts her foot in her mouth. Often because her persecution complex gets in the way of her valid points. It's a real shame cause I genuinely think she has some interesting takes.

I don't think it can possibly be "motel sprees sprees" because it simply makes NO sense. Lana has a lot of weird lyrics that work, but somehow these don't.  And I don't think she'd include them if they didn't work. It's also just a notch too seedy for Lana - motel sprees? Really Lana? Somehow I just don't think this is it, and I haven't seen any alternative yet that sounds or feels right. :/ 

After 4.5 years of deliberation I've concluded that she's saying "motel speed sprees" as it makes sense both thematically and phonetically.  

This is not meant as a personal attack on anyone, just some perspective on the vegan criticism in this thread:

Has Lana actually ever said that she's vegan/ against fur within recent time?

Cause otherwise it seems a tad unreasonable to project your own values onto her and accuse her of hypocracy.

You can of course still criticize her for wearing fur but remember:

 - Almost all chemicals, including those in medicine, are tested on animals.

- Our houses, roads, hospitals and schools displace and kill animals as we build them.

- Vegetable farming kills animals as well through i.e. pest control and harvesting

I'm not saying being vegan isn't reducing animal harm but that's all you do. Reduce,not eliminate.

We're part of an ecosystem where we inevitably embarge on animal lives, simply because we're alive. 

In itself, fur is really not this totally different moral class of harm than the other many ways we use and embarge on animal lives through our lives (yes, vegans too). Especially not if it's sustainably sourced. It's just a very visible reminder of how we hurt animals and I think that's why it provokes a stronger reaction than say the building of a highway (highways are terrible for biodiversity and animal lives in general).

I understand that reaction but it makes the criticism seem a bit arbitrary and not well thought out.

That being said I find that real fur teddy oddly creepy as well, like it's gonna come alive in the night and murder me. It has that Buffalo Bill vibe         

The line which tightens my heartstrings a bit more than the others is "it's just a dream I had in mind", like... It sounds so hopeless [...] Like "It's just a dream I had in mind, don't mind me... I know it's silly."

Exactly.

There are some great moments musically in CWIMM, but "Looking for America" succeeds lyrically and in sentiment where "Coachella" fails. Sure, there's still a degree of shallowness or superficiality here, but she comes closer to fulfilling her potential to employ her Americana schtick in an effective way to make a political statement that I hoped for in the run-up to LFL, but didn't quite get: This is basically her "Imagine".

Just curious, what type of political song would you like her to do? I get what you mean in the sense that she's only really explicit in the chorus ("without the guns") and that the fireworks line is a bit clichéed. But I have a hard time imagining her being more concrete without it sounding forced. To me this is one of her most heartfelt songs in very long time, because she goes beyond her own little world but in such a very Lanaesque way that it still feels authentic.

It's amazing how different experiences we all have  connected to the same albums. 

In general her music has followed me throughout my twenties, and been very formative, as I imagine it has for most of us on here. BTD and her unreleased material was an awakening to me. I started seeing the world and exploring it differently - everything could be an adventure when seen how Lana sees the world (in her songs at least).

With UV I was still high off that adventourous feeling, but around that time life also started to change for me. With Honeymoon I was in a chaotic evolving state and with  LFL I'd say I was a very different, more mature person who was ready to take on some challenges I had been postponing. 

I still love her music to death, but I've also felt the need to disentangle myself a bit from that very sensual way of living in your own little world that her music first inspired in me.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As a result LFL is definitely the album that had the least impact on me. There are beautiful tracks on there, but it wasn't the life-altering experience that BTD or UV were to me, because I was in different place mentally.

But I'm not counting out the possibility that she will rock my world again. I remember after Tropico, I temporarily had a distinct feeling of Lana-saturation, feeling like she had played out her role as the most inspiring artist in my life. I think I even made a melodramatic blogpost about it. Then she dropped West Coast a few months later and I was right back on the Lana-train 

No human being ever deserves to die. This is not moot. 

Women and gay people don't deserve violent abuse either, yet here we are. I dont think that many people actively wished death upon him, or think that death penalty is good thing. But he happened to die, and it does seem a little karmic, given the fucked up things he did. It's quite rare that abusers actually get to repent proportionally for their crimes, so I can't really be mad, that people who have experienced abuse, or know people who did, see this as "divine justice" so to speak.

I personally don't celebrate it, but I'm not mad either. There are other people dying that I'm infinitely more worried about, than a guy who did absolutely terrible shit.

"And I thought that she was endlessly fascinating, because she was always kind of expressing herself by being a character. She would tell you a story and you're like, "I don't think that's true, but I don't care.""

 

"But it was like being around a performance artist. It's not like they're a pathological liar or something, they're just a person creating a character."

 

"I was living with a bunch of musicians, and by the time she finished playing her first song, my roommates were seated around her on the floor, just like little kids when their preschool teacher is singing to them." 

These are some of the most spot on descriptions of Lana I've ever seen! He doesn't gloss over the fact that she's making up sh*t, but he also sees that it's exactly the kind of eccentricity that makes her so interesting. He genuinely appreciates her for the kind of artist she is.

I wish more journalists could see what he sees. Would have spared the world (and Lana) for a lot of unnecessary think pieces

throwback to the time when i talked to a pretty hardcore manson fan (who'd mailed him in jail and everything) here in our very own lb, when i was called something other than bummersummer. that was... a trip.

 

Yo wtf

You gotta expand on that story, mate

the fact that stevie sounds like spongebob when she sings that line does not help tbh

I had the misfortune of reading the thing about Stevie sounding like Spongebob before listening to the song... I thought "why would they do Stevie dirty like this? No respect, the youth.". Then I actually gave it a listen, and she opens the song like she's wistfully about to flip Krabby Patties. 

Still love her though 

"Blue is the collar of the shirt of the man I love"

Oh God, I forgot 

Coachella is up there as well. I'll take any of of her mindblowingly corny lyrics over a faux-deep, wanna be political song any day. The corny ones always make me laugh, and somehow she can pull off being over the top like that, which is an art in itself. 

She literally doesn't age

It is quite incredible. Even with her fair share of fillers/surgery/whatever magic they've worked on her, she still looks so fresh faced, unlike certain other celebrities who start looking doughy and weird, as their filllers/botox starts getting old. She has struck some kind of perfect balance between geeting work done, and not fucking too much with her face I guess.

I kind of love that she's really back in glamour mode. She seems to be having fun with it, and it shows.  

Ultraviolence era gave us amazing photoshoots, the iconic legendary talented beautiful tempo changing masterpiece that is west coast.... , shall we even mention the shades of cool music video in that coachella dress... plus all of the leaks happening right before the era started.... "meet me in the pale moonlight a new b-side from lana's new album" tweet response about the first single being WC like it was all amazing there are no other competitors the album and it's innovative production was and will remain to be her best, the leaks were the best, the tours and festivals were amazing, all of neil krug's amazing shoots etc.          

I don't like choosing, as it depends on my mood and where I am in life what era I find most intriguing, but with a gun to my head, I'd probably say this^^

Ultraviolence might arguably be the album with the most longevity, it has that timeless quality, where as some hiphop/trap elements on BTD and Lust for Life for example might age less well. 

EDIT: Oh, and as much as I loved Paradise, with Tropico, Ride and the beautiful tour, I could never choose it simply because of that H&M campaign with the peach pink fuzzy sweater and matching jeans. Like I actually thought it was kind of cute then, but it's probably something our children will taunt us all for in a decade 

Topanga is hot tonight, the city by the bay

Has movie stars and liquor stores and soft decay

The rumbling from distant shores sends me to sleep

But the facts of life, can sometimes make it hard to dream

 

Life rocked me like Motley

Grab me by the ribbons in my hair

Life rocked me, ultra-softly

Like the heavy metal that you wear

 

Flying to the moon again

Dreaming about heroin

Probably gave you everything

And took your life away

I put you on an aeroplane

Destined for a foreign land

I thought that you'd come back again

To tell me everything's

Okay (eh, eh, babe, yeah)

 

Topanga is hot today

Manson's in the air

And all my friends have come

'Cause they still feel him here

I want to leave

I'll probably stay another year

It's hard to live when absolutely nothing's clear

 

Life rocked me like Motley

Bad beginning to my new year

Life rocked me, ultra-softly

Like the heavy metal that you hear

 

Flying to the moon again

Dreaming about heroin

And how I gave you everything

And took your life away

I put you on an aeroplane

Destined for a foreign land

I thought that you'd come back again

To tell me everything's

Okay (eh, eh, babe, yeah)

 

It's fucking hot, hot

Winter in the city

Something 'bout this weather

Made these kids go crazy

It's hot

Even for February

Something 'bout this sun

Has made these kids get scary

Oh, writing in blood on my walls and shit

Like

Oh, oh my god

Tripping off from the walls into the ducts and shit

Oh, oh, oh

I'll be lying if I said I wasn't sick of it

Lead me baby

Come on

Come on

Come on

Come on

 

Flying to the moon again

Dreaming of Amoxapine

Taking all my medicine

To take my thoughts away

I'm getting on that aeroplane

Leaving my old man again

I hope that I'd come back again one day

To tell you that I

Really changed

Baby

 

It's hot, hot

Something 'bout the city

Don't know what he is

And make my head get crazy

Oh, oh, oh

Makes me feel like I can change

Oh, oh, oh

All of my evil ways and shit

 

Hmm, hmm

Oh, oh, oh

I'll be lying if I said I wasn't sick of it

Just added a few corrections to the lyrics (that I'm 99.9 % sure of). I looked up the list of American anti-depressants and Amoxapane fits the lyrics and makes a lot more sense than marzipan imo.

Probably also my favourite song off the record. It's so ~etheral~ and beautiful, but really dark and gruesome as well. 

TNC is only ruined by those very ugly "ssstayyyh baby stayyyh" from Sean his voice is very unpleasant while the song could've been so much greater with Lana only

If I wasn't so used to hearing John Lennons voice, I probably would feel the same way, lol. But having grown up with a lot of Beatles and Lennon, hearing how similar Seans voice and singing style is to his father, gives the song a lot of nostalgic value. And the melody is just so pretty

If I wasn't a fan already "Tomorrow never came" would have made me one for sure. Lana at her heartbroken best.

Summer Bummer mood :

 

 

also, if we don't get another Lana x Rocky mv in this era, i'll never forgive those two

#Justice4Ridin #neverforget #neverforgive

i'll take a full song of just lana ghost-moaning over a trap beat plz & thx        

Preach! Looking forward to her and Metro Boomins collab album "Lana Boomin" 2k18. 

Girl prechorus no?? 

Lanas adlibs during Rockys verse >>>> prechorus for me   It's not that I don't like the rest of the song, her melodies just sound a little too much like they're riffed off old demos or something and it's 5 BMP too slow imo. But her voice is heavenly as per usual and no one else could get away with singing about wanting to f*** a rockstar in the style of a lullaby. Queen <3  Rockys verse just has a more interesting melodies and rythmics to me and Lana's adlibs works really well, I'm hope she'll do that more in the future. 

So far Summer Bummer is my favourite. It has a an almost sinister vibe. I still don't know what exactly Playboi Carti is contributing with beside his signature "what what what", but it works for me. Or does he actually rap at some point and I just can't distinguish between him and Rocky??

Groupie Love is a bit snoozy but I love A$AP's verse and how well their chemistry works. That alone is enough to make it my second favourite track. I've relistened to that We dont pay no mind to the girls with *Lana hum* love a millions time already because it sounds so dope. 

I think the rap features adds a some much needed energy on her tracks. Lana has always toed the line between tranquil/blasé and boring, but up until the LFL era I feel like she always stayed on the right side of that line, even on Honeymoon because it had so much atmosphere.

The other singles have nice elements too, I'm just not super intrigued. Maybe they'll grow on me when I listen to the full album. 

Rockys part is actually the best thing about Groupie Love. Didn't see that one coming!

Are you telling me that Lana and A$ap are teaming up again to repent their sins?? (Of course referring to the final version of Ridin' that they snubbed us for).