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Catalan Independence Referendum


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#1 OFFLINE   Clampigirl

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:59 AM

Catalans are voting today regarding the question if they should become independent from the rest of Spain. Catalonia is in northern Spain and contains Barcelona among other cities. Many Catalans feel like the Spanish government isn't taking enough interest in the region and since they speak differently than the rest of Spain, the language also make them feel distanced from the rest of Spain.
The Spanish government isn't very happy about this and have ordered the police to collect any vote urns and close down any voting stations.

I was listening to the Swedish radio news and the news reporter said, live, that some people have been hurt by the police officers and you could hear gunshots in the background. I hope it isn't like this all over Catalonia and if any of you LB members live there, be careful.
BBC reports some chaotic images: http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-41457238


We will see how this ends at the end of today.

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#2 OFFLINE   Melania Trump

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:07 AM

I have mixed feeling about this, on one hand I don't think it's good for countries to split and then Catalonia probably wouldn't be a part of the EU anymore, which means more borders and nationalism that's not good..

On the other hand this referendum feels different, since it's not fueled by angry old 'racists' but by the actual people of the region..

So yeah.. let's see what happens..
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#3 OFFLINE   Clampigirl

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:17 AM

Omg, footage from today looks horrible! The police officers are literally tossing people as if they were dolls or a piece of paper! Some are even bleeding!
I know it's orders, but still - they are still your own people, how could you do that to a countryman?

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#4 OFFLINE   Clampigirl

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 01:07 PM

Swedish newspaper reports that at least 337 people have been injured. :( And I would be ashamed of myself if I were one of those police officers! http://www.dn.se/nyh...la-i-barcelona/

 

Update 3 hours later: now they say it's nearly 500 people injured - scandalous!


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#5 ONLINE   singintheblues

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:35 PM

I live and I am from Spain, and I feel sad and ashamed for what has happened today. Many people have suffered police repression just because they want to vote. The referendum was illegal, but that does not justify the violence


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#6 ONLINE   theviolence

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:41 PM

The undecided will be decided after today. I hope Catalonia will get their independence in the end. 


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#7 OFFLINE   LaMartine

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:53 PM

catalonia's (like in belgium and northern italy) decision to be independent was also fueled by the difference in revenue from the rest of spain, something that apparently madrid takes advantage of without the catalans perceiving an appropriate trade off from the government. 

 

it's so disgraceful that the tensions have blown into proper violence, this could have been avoided and i can't see people not wanting to be independent now even though i don't really approve of the sentiment :( 


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#8 OFFLINE   Clampigirl

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:55 PM

I live and I am from Spain, and I feel sad and ashamed for what has happened today. Many people have suffered police repression just because they want to vote. The referendum was illegal, but that does not justify the violence

Exactly. They are still humans and a part of your own people, I don't understand why unnecessary violence had to be used. To create fear?
Why is it illegal to vote for independence? I thought it was normal democracy, but maybe I'm wrong... I haven't gone through everything in detail so to say.
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#9 ONLINE   singintheblues

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:10 PM

Exactly. They are still humans and a part of your own people, I don't understand why unnecessary violence had to be used. To create fear?
Why is it illegal to vote for independence? I thought it was normal democracy, but maybe I'm wrong... I haven't gone through everything in detail so to say.

In our constitution of 1978 is prohibited to make a referendum on the independence. So the judges and the 'justice' have declared the referendum illegal. To make a legal referendum we have to change the constitution, and who is in government in Spain (PP) along with others do not want to do so. I hope someday there will be a real referendum, since many citizens want to vote, to this day I see it complicated...


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#10 OFFLINE   Clampigirl

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:28 PM

In our constitution of 1978 is prohibited to make a referendum on the independence. So the judges and the 'justice' have declared the referendum illegal. To make a legal referendum we have to change the constitution, and who is in government in Spain (PP) along with others do not want to do so. I hope someday there will be a real referendum, since many citizens want to vote, to this day I see it complicated...


Ohh, I see. Thank you for explaining. Yeah, and changing a constitution isn't something that you do in one day really...
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#11 OFFLINE   Electric Body

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:59 AM

I think you have to see this on two levels:

The first one is the actual referendum. 90% voted yes, BUT only 42% of the people allowed to vote actually used that priviledge. And of course, looking at all the violence that took place, people who would have voted "no" have most likely not taken the risk to get into a dangerous situation.
And - as conspiracy theory-esque this may sound - you have to ask yourself who profits in this situation? The people voting yes may crave freedom etc. But the guys fueling the movement - what financial, economical or power-related reasons do they have?
Has nationalism ever really brought much good to the world?

The second level is the way the guardia civil (=\= police) treats the people who vote or protest. And those instances are just unacceptable, a lot of the violence was disproportinal.


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