Lana's vocal quality and vibrato

[Honeymooner 336]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm curious to see what some of my fellow musicians (instrumental or vocal, doesn't matter) have to say on this topic.

 

I've heard it said that Lana's voice has gotten stronger since Born To Die came out.  I think Ultraviolence is certainly proof of that.  But one thing I've also noticed is that her vibrato has improved dramatically.

 

In the beginning, it seemed like it was sometimes shaky and unsteady, and was always kind of fast and fluttery.  The songs on Born To Die had that quality.  Paradise was a small improvement.  You can really only tell when she holds sustained notes.  "American" is a good example.  Take the chorus: "You make me crazy / You make me wiiiii-iiiild..."  On that last held note, you can hear her vibrato, and while it's better than it had been in the past, it's still a bit fast for my taste.  Fast forward to "Young and Beautiful" -- again, a marginal improvement, but still fluttery.  Fast forward again to "Once Upon a Dream," and there's still more improvement.

 

But, where I noticed the most dramatic change was in the bonus track "Is This Happiness" on Ultraviolence.  When she holds "Is this happineeessssssss". you can really hear a change.  Her vibrato is slower and wider than even on other UV songs.  To me, this is the most beautiful her voice has ever sounded.  I wonder if she had any sort of vocal coaching, or if she just changed on her own, or...?  "Is This Happiness" is definitely my favorite UV track.

 

Look forward to discussion

[Creyk 11,677]

Well apparently after the SNL travesty someone at her label gave her plenty of coaching/lessons. 

But also how she does depends on the day/mood, as she said numberous times. It seems to be a mental issue with her, what kind of mindset she is in at the moment, how much is she blocking herself with her depression/anxiety I don't even know what her problems are anymore. 

Point is, I agree that she has definitely improved, and she probably had a specially good day when ITH was recorded

[BlueJeans 2,606]

Her voice puzzles me ... Firstly it has so many colors and texture, she can sound girlish, then deep and sulky, sometimes drunk  ... The BTD vocals sometimes sound "chipmunked" but it could be just one of her voice texture ...

There's been some kind of change, definitely. There might have been some vocal training, why not, every singer should welcome those type of training, I think even Whitney Houston did it and we all know what she could do (I would feel awkward in the place of the vocal coach haha). Anyway, she could have had some vocal coaching but also maybe some training on how to feel better on stage. Because stress, stage fright etc... Deeply affect your voice. I like to sing but in my basement, where nobody hears me, as soon as I'm supposed to sing in front of even one friend, my voice becomes thin and shy. So imagine being in front of a live audience and being broadcasted on TV for one of your "first" live shows as LDR, having to defend your brand. The pressure must have been immense.

 

Now that I think of it, I seem to remember that she once talked about the performance in an interview and that she said someone coached her afterwards ... Couldn't remember the paper it was in ...

[longtimeman 8,908]

I enjoyed your comments, @ and generally agree. One aspect of Lana's voice is that she does not have a great deal of power, which hurts her at larger shows. Her best vocal performances (live) that I've seen are ones at small shows or live in the studio, even going back to her short blonde hair 'Lizzy' days, because she's not required to sing loudly. I don't consider her voice 'weedy', but she's never going to be a soul singer in line with an Adele or Joss Stone. Every part of her voice (pitch, tone, vibrato, control) suffers when she has to 'project', and she can either work on that, or if she doesn't want to, she can sing quieter. (She sings fairly softly on BTD, and her voice is mixed loudly, which produces a sound that I personally love).

 

Where I agree with @@BlueJeans is in the tremendous variation in emotion she can put into her singing, which to me is her number one strength as a performer. There are versions of 'Blue Jeans' where she sings the 'bitches before' phrase with such venom, it doesn't sound like a performance at all, but like an emotionally heightened moment in a private relationship. There are so few singers who let themselves get that emotionally vulnerable in songs - I can think of Antony Hegarty and Chan/Cat Power as a couple of examples, but most singers will value the consistency of performance above the emotional variations that make her live shows so compelling.  

 

Here's a nice example of her voice where she's singing not that much louder than the volume of a normal conversation.

[Honeymooner 336]

Well apparently after the SNL travesty someone at her label gave her plenty of coaching/lessons. 

I heard that after SNL, she had received coaching on the use on in-ear monitors, but I didn't know one way or the other about any vocal coaching.

 

But also how she does depends on the day/mood, as she said numberous times. It seems to be a mental issue with her, what kind of mindset she is in at the moment, how much is she blocking herself with her depression/anxiety

True! The same could probably be said of just about anyone, though.

 

Point is, I agree that she has definitely improved, and she probably had a specially good day when ITH was recorded

 

 

Good point.

 

Her voice puzzles me ... Firstly it has so many colors and texture, she can sound girlish, then deep and sulky, sometimes drunk  ... The BTD vocals sometimes sound "chipmunked" but it could be just one of her voice texture ...

I think it's how she wants to make it sound. Sometimes, when she gets into her mid-high register, she sounds more airy/breathy, and sometimes she sounds more deep/full. Using your name as an example, in the song "Blue Jeans," on the album, she sounds more airy in the upper register ("I will love you till the end of time..."), whereas in her SNL performance, that part of the song didn't have the same sound.

 

So imagine being in front of a live audience and being broadcasted on TV for one of your "first" live shows as LDR, having to defend your brand. The pressure must have been immense.

I can imagine!

 

Now that I think of it, I seem to remember that she once talked about the performance in an interview and that she said someone coached her afterwards ... Couldn't remember the paper it was in ...

Yeah, I don't either. I remember hearing about her being coached in the use of in-ear monitors, but I don't remember about vocal coaching.

 

 

I enjoyed your comments, @ and generally agree. One aspect of Lana's voice is that she does not have a great deal of power, which hurts her at larger shows.

That's especially true in her lower register. I've noticed that in live performances, she often doesn't dive deep into her really low register in songs like "Summertime Sadness" and even "Video Games." In SS, on the album, she hits a low C# below middle C. In live performances (which they often take up a half step), she doesn't go anywhere near that low C# (or really, it would be D when they take it up). I suppose despite being mic'd, with the band and crowd noise, her voice would get lost in that low register, and I'm sure she knows that.

 

I don't consider her voice 'weedy', but she's never going to be a soul singer in line with an Adele or Joss Stone.

Perhaps not, although have you heard her perform "Million Dollar Man" live? She really belts out some of those higher notes, and I've noticed her voice taking on an almost Bernadette Peters-like quality when she does that. I don't know if that's intentional, or if that's just the effect of her trying to sing that loudly and forcefully. It's an interesting sound coming from her... not my first choice, but not bad, either.

 

Every part of her voice (pitch, tone, vibrato, control) suffers when she has to 'project', and she can either work on that, or if she doesn't want to, she can sing quieter. (She sings fairly softly on BTD, and her voice is mixed loudly, which produces a sound that I personally love).

That's the beauty of studio recordings -- you can manipulate everything, including your voice volume. That's why she can sing those really low notes on the album and still project well.

 

Where I agree with @@BlueJeans is in the tremendous variation in emotion she can put into her singing, which to me is her number one strength as a performer. There are versions of 'Blue Jeans' where she sings the 'bitches before' phrase with such venom, it doesn't sound like a performance at all, but like an emotionally heightened moment in a private relationship. There are so few singers who let themselves get that emotionally vulnerable in songs - I can think of Antony Hegarty and Chan/Cat Power as a couple of examples, but most singers will value the consistency of performance above the emotional variations that make her live shows so compelling.  

Totally agree with you there.

[slang 1,532]

I noticed @ reference points for vibrato is all released work. One thing that might bear on the recent coaching vs. she-just-does-it-just-when-she-feels-like-it issue is whether or not there are any early unreleased songs that have a similar vibrato to ITH. The best I could do in terms of a comparison (and I'm not a musician) is "A Star for Nick" (e.g. the runs starting at about 1:33). 

 

 

I think she's gotten better too, but I guess the question is whether it's practice effects, advice from producers, or owing to mood of the song. I'd love for her to be getting vocal coaching (and guitar coaching).

 

@@Creyk on "the SNL travesty" and coaching thereafter. Two things: yes "in-ear monitors" after SNL by Jimmy Iovine (end of rollingstone 2014). Perhaps J.I. thought she could not properly hear herself (which I think is false). The other thing is "travesty" doesn't apply if a lot of people like these performances. For instance, I liked her SNL Blue Jeans because it had something like an accelerando in pitch (not speed) during the first 90 seconds, which was either intentional or a mistake from starting the song too low. Either way she could hear herself and knew what she was doing because her repair (or intentional innovation) was executed well. I have never tired of that performance.

[Summersault 823]

Her vibrato always puzzled me too.

 

Like on The Man I love she has this crazy broad vibrato:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqF9SsMi9Us

But it's not really present on other tracks from that era. 

 

It's like she's capable of a lot of technical feats but has very little control over it. She can't do it at will.

I'm no vocal coach but her breath control seem kinda off sometimes, maybe because of stress, sickness or nervousness, hence the performances like the recent "Rock an Seine" where she sounds much worse than usual.

 

I totally agree with those who said that her strength lies in the atmosphere and emotions she can create with her voice. In that regard her range is ridiculous. Just think of the span between "Pretty When You Cry" and "Off to the Races" in terms of emotional colouring. That magnificient woman   

[GodBlessMe 2,141]

Her vibrato always puzzled me too.

 

Like on The Man I love she has this crazy broad vibrato:

 

But it's not really present on other tracks from that era. 

 

It's like she's capable of a lot of technical feats but has very little control over it. She can't do it at will.

I'm no vocal coach but her breath control seem kinda off sometimes, maybe because of stress, sickness or nervousness, hence the performances like the recent "Rock an Seine" where she sounds much worse than usual.

 

I totally agree with those who said that her strength lies in the atmosphere and emotions she can create with her voice. In that regard her range is ridiculous. Just think of the span between "Pretty When You Cry" and "Off to the Races" in terms of emotional colouring. That magnificient woman

 

Her vibrato always puzzled me too.

 

Like on The Man I love she has this crazy broad vibrato:

 

But it's not really present on other tracks from that era. 

 

It's like she's capable of a lot of technical feats but has very little control over it. She can't do it at will.

I'm no vocal coach but her breath control seem kinda off sometimes, maybe because of stress, sickness or nervousness, hence the performances like the recent "Rock an Seine" where she sounds much worse than usual.

 

I totally agree with those who said that her strength lies in the atmosphere and emotions she can create with her voice. In that regard her range is ridiculous. Just think of the span between "Pretty When You Cry" and "Off to the Races" in terms of emotional colouring. That magnificient woman

 

Wait what I thought her Rock On Seine performance was amazing?!?

[Summersault 823]

Wait what I thought her Rock On Seine performance was amazing?!?

 

Maybe it was just the few songs I heard, but to me she sounded really out of breath. There were more than one performance though, we might have heard different ones. 

[GodBlessMe 2,141]

Maybe it was just the few songs I heard, but to me she sounded really out of breath. There were more than one performance though, we might have heard different ones.

 

Maybe it was just the few songs I heard, but to me she sounded really out of breath. There were more than one performance though, we might have heard different ones.

 

I dont know I thought the performances of Carmen, West Coast, FMWUTTT and Young And Beautiful were some of her best ever...... On Blue Jeans, Body Electric and Ultraviolence however I understand what you mean....

[Creyk 11,677]

 

 

 

@@Creyk on "the SNL travesty" and coaching thereafter. Two things: yes "in-ear monitors" after SNL by Jimmy Iovine (end of rollingstone 2014). Perhaps J.I. thought she could not properly hear herself (which I think is false). The other thing is "travesty" doesn't apply if a lot of people like these performances. For instance, I liked her SNL Blue Jeans because it had something like an accelerando in pitch (not speed) during the first 90 seconds, which was either intentional or a mistake from starting the song too low. Either way she could hear herself and knew what she was doing because her repair (or intentional innovation) was executed well. I have never tired of that performance.

 

 I think you know what I meant by travesty

It's been what, 2-3 years and she is still hurt by the reaction to her first album, and the SNL performance had a part in that.

But otherwise, I actually agree with you! I loved those performances and would watch them often, I was so sad when they were removed from her youtube page and I couldn't find them anymore

[Limelight 4,707]

Her vibrato always puzzled me too.

 

Like on The Man I love she has this crazy broad vibrato:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqF9SsMi9Us

But it's not really present on other tracks from that era. 

 

It's like she's capable of a lot of technical feats but has very little control over it. She can't do it at will.

I'm no vocal coach but her breath control seem kinda off sometimes, maybe because of stress, sickness or nervousness, hence the performances like the recent "Rock an Seine" where she sounds much worse than usual.

 

I totally agree with those who said that her strength lies in the atmosphere and emotions she can create with her voice. In that regard her range is ridiculous. Just think of the span between "Pretty When You Cry" and "Off to the Races" in terms of emotional colouring. That magnificient woman   

She sounded amazing though lol (I was there).  It was really an improvement from when I went to her Paradise tour in Geneva. I was amazed at how well she sang at Rock en Seine, maybe the videos you watched are bad. (and if you were there, you might need your hearing checked xd)

[GodBlessMe 2,141]

I think you know what I meant by travesty

It's been what, 2-3 years and she is still hurt by the reaction to her first album, and the SNL performance had a part in that.

But otherwise, I actually agree with you! I loved those performances and would watch them often, I was so sad when they were removed from her youtube page and I couldn't find them anymore

They're on Vimeo

[Honeymooner 336]

Like on The Man I love she has this crazy broad vibrato:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqF9SsMi9Us

But it's not really present on other tracks from that era. 

 

 That magnificient woman   

 

I agree, she is magnificent.   But, from what I've been reading, it seems that "The Man I Love" might be fake, fan-made... hard to say.  It sure sounds like her!

 

I think you know what I meant by travesty

It's been what, 2-3 years and she is still hurt by the reaction to her first album, and the SNL performance had a part in that.

But otherwise, I actually agree with you! I loved those performances and would watch them often, I was so sad when they were removed from her youtube page and I couldn't find them anymore

 

I liked her SNL performances, too!!  She did seem nervous, especially in "Video Games."  But she was not pitchy, contrary to what other reviews said.  Her intonation was good (and I have perfect pitch, so I'd know   ).  In "Blue Jeans," she got a bit to close to the mic when she said the word "Burn..." it came out as "Walked into the room you know you made my eyes BBBURN."

 

By the way, her SNL videos are still on Vimeo:

 

Video Games:  http://vimeo.com/80513813

Blue Jeans:  http://vimeo.com/80513814

[Creyk 11,677]

I did not know what Vimeo is    

Well thanks you guys

 

The way she sings "Is that true" at 1:29 in video games is so lovely

And the way she holds that youuuuuu final note at 4:08 is also great

[Honeymooner 336]

I did not know what Vimeo is    

Just another video sharing site like YouTube

 

The way she sings "Is that true" at 1:29 in video games is so lovely

Agreed!

 

And the way she holds that youuuuuu final note at 4:08 is also great

Yeah it is! She does that at most live performances of that song.

[Intriguing Penguin 867]

Her voice is a world wonder. 

[toshi 948]

I agree, she is magnificent.   But, from what I've been reading, it seems that "The Man I Love" might be fake, fan-made... hard to say.  It sure sounds like her!

 

 

I liked her SNL performances, too!!  She did seem nervous, especially in "Video Games."  But she was not pitchy, contrary to what other reviews said.  Her intonation was good (and I have perfect pitch, so I'd know   ).  In "Blue Jeans," she got a bit to close to the mic when she said the word "Burn..." it came out as "Walked into the room you know you made my eyes BBBURN."

 

By the way, her SNL videos are still on Vimeo:

 

Video Games:  http://vimeo.com/80513813

Blue Jeans:  http://vimeo.com/80513814

 

Wow I remember when she got slated bad for those performances. There good as well, it must have been more a shock to see her the way she performs as it probably would have been the first time seeing her live for most people. I suppose the way she goes from low to high notes is quite different to experience from a pop singer, and the way she carries herself on stage.

 

I loved it when she sang the line 'But shit at least you tried' in Blue Jeans, she doesn't sing it like that usually.

[naachoboy 7,993]

I think she improved a lot from BTD to UV in terms of singing but maybe its because the producers and not because she got some training.

 

PD: Seeing the SNL performances again and she doesnt sound that bad, people just wanted to hate. 

[Honeymooner 336]

Her voice is a world wonder. 

 

I agree.  She makes me swoon.  And I'm not a swooner. 

 

Wow I remember when she got slated bad for those performances. There good as well, it must have been more a shock to see her the way she performs as it probably would have been the first time seeing her live for most people. I suppose the way she goes from low to high notes is quite different to experience from a pop singer, and the way she carries herself on stage.

 

I loved it when she sang the line 'But shit at least you tried' in Blue Jeans, she doesn't sing it like that usually.

 

Having only been a fan of Lana since May, I didn't see the SNL performance when it came out.  (And I don't have cable, so I never would've seen it anyway... plus, I don't watch SNL anyway... heheh)  I saw videos of more recent performances before I ever saw the SNL videos, but even so, I did not think the SNL videos were bad at all.  I thought she sang quite well, actually, despite being nervous.  She just didn't have much stage presence.  In that department, she has improved by leaps and bounds.

 

Oh, and you may have noticed in the SNL video that she changed "shit" to "shoot," since she was on national TV...   Though "bitches" stayed as it was, since that word is allowed on TV now.  But "shit" is the normal lyric.  I do remember one European performance I saw where she changed "bitches" to something else, possibly a word more appropriate to the country she was in?  I just can't remember what it was now.