Vertimus

I think you’re taking it wayyyyy too far and simply being too doctrinaire. You seem to be seeking, desiring or demanding some perfect, absolutist, almost militant feminist messages in her lyrics, and you’re never going to find that in her or any female songwriter, unless that artist absolutely IS a feminist militant. And there no doubt are some. When you look at the post-50s era of pop music songwriting and recording by women, whether it’s Carole King, Joan Baez, Marianne Faithfull, Nico, the Supremes, Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Patti Smith, Bette Midler, Melanie, Joan Armatrading, Debbie Harry, Linda Ronstadt, Stevie Nicks, Kate Bush, the three Roche sisters, Diana Ross, Christine McVie, Anne and Nancy Wilson, Lene Lovich, Rachel Sweet, Siouxie Sioux, Pat Benatar, Annie Lennox, Madonna and on to Fiona Apple, Natalie Merchant, Tori Amos, Shirley Manson, etc., you find a fair amount of submissiveness as well as vulnerability and hurt, because those are human CONSTANTS, not necessarily FEMALE constants. Men have written about those same human constants. (Look at a song like ‘The Devil In Me’ by Anderson East, which is about how his overwhelming desire for a woman leads him to drugs and drink and suffering, and yet it’s still a beautiful experience for him. There are hundreds of songs by men about the devastating experience of falling in love.) AND, in those female artists’ you also find fight, challenge, resistance, clarity, the desire for freedom, self-awareness, and rejection of romantic partners, male or female, whose behavior was domineering or otherwise not up to standard or simply unacceptable. It would be pretty condescending to say to those diverse individuals, “You weren’t thinking for yourself, ever, or able to, all your life you’ve under the yoke of the patriarchy!” In ‘Live or Die,’ well, the song is clearly not REALLY about female empowerment, it’s about a psychopathic couple, one female, one male, who are spree killing and loving every minute of it, and in which the female is dominant. That’s what makes it so great—it’s clearly role-playing on LDR’s part and not an actual, genuine reflection of who she is in any sense, and she pulls it off masterfully.

Plus her submissive position in her 2010 songs was not an interpretation. It was clearly there, not only in the voice, in the videos, in the overall attitude, it was in the words. It's striking when you discover new songs from that time, like Bad Boy. I'm not saying it's wrong though, it's a fact I didn’t say some of her lyrics were or were not submissive in fact, only that they were interpreted as such by many in the media and celebrity culture, and then decried as such. While I think there IS a submissive attitude in some of her songs (like ‘Blue Jeans’), there’s also a feeling of simply being overwhelmed by the experience of love, sexual attraction, and her lover in many songs, which is not something only women experience. And she has every right to be true to her own experience, whatever it is, and write about it. However, in ‘Live or Die,’ it’s LDR (or the female narrator) who is totally calling the shots, dominating the man, pushing him around and eventually betraying him. I think it’s one of her greatest songs and as far from PC as one could get. And she’s also giddily slaughtering people and loving every minute of it. Talk about female empowerment. In ‘Summertime Sadness’ she’s celebrating her lover and life, and despite her passion and willingness to die happily in the moment, there’s nothing overtly submissive or masochistic in the lyrics. And in ‘American,’ the narrator is not submissive, but in an apparently happy, ‘equal’ relationship with her male lover. So there’s some truth to the claim that she’s written about being submissive to her male partner, but it’s not the only truth or the only fact about her lyrics from that era.

The October Single (which is probably is Hope) was said to "stand on its own", because it was more serious in tone (she did say before that she had fun doing songs with Jack and that it did reflect in the songs). The Hope press release, in January, said that all 3 singles were "fan tracks" and that the first lead was coming. So, the three songs will be on NFR, unless she cut them out, which wasn't the case in January. “Fan tracks” is yet another description or designation, adding to the confusion. These various designations are probably just spontaneous conversational descriptions that have varied as a result OF being conversational. I do think at one point LDR or a team member, like Ben, referred to them as “stand-alone singles.”

y'all can't even blame her for waiting. she releases three stand-alone singles, which she verbally says they're STAND ALONE and y'all still be thinking they're on nfr. I have always questioned whether MAC, VB and Hope will be on NFR. She has made contrary statements about them, calling them “end of summer jams,” “ stand-alone singles” and her “favorites from the album.” So what can one conclude? Those comments are part of the mess of this era. We have heard them dozens or hundreds of times, we know them by heart, by this late date—and the even later-date of the album’s eventual release—, it makes little sense for them to be included.

By the way, I do think, as an individual and Democrat, LDR does share many contemporary social and political concerns and does broadly care about women as women as well as individuals, and feminism generally. So I don’t think she’s a complete hypocrite. But in the face of the onslaught of vicious attacks, I think she’s just buckled and given in, saying and doing what she feels they want to hear and see so they leave her alone. She has also received praise from liberals like Bruce Springsteen, who included her in a recent list of ‘Desert Island Artists’ someone asked him for. Obviously, she’s been supported and praised by Father John Misty, also a publicly-avowed liberal-leaning artist (and personal friend of hers) and other younger musicians.

Also, as a quick aside, Change doesn’t strike me as political. GBA isn’t a bad song and WTWWAWWKD delivers a message about ignoring war and suffering and the political climate and just going on about your pleasure and keeping on to hope, it’s strictly hedonistic and isn’t in anyway PC ‘Change’ IS political because it discusses the poisoning of the air and water by nuclear attack or another agent of war and the need for personal change that then might be reflected in the larger culture, as in the philosophy that if everyone took personal responsibility for their own faults and troubles, the entire culture would be transformed. My impression of WTWWATWKD is not that it was hedonistic, but rather that, in the face of an all-out war like WW II, people, in their recognized and acknowledged helplessness in the face of it, felt that dancing was their only means of fighting back, by continuing to enjoy themselves, or at least to pretend to—to use dancing as a show of hope, resistance, fortitude, will and the human spirit. That is EXACTLY what many of the British did during WW II, they continued to hold and attend concerts, poetry readings, the theater, etc., even though the Blitz was on and buildings were blowing up around them night and day, day and night.

It's no a “weird complaint” if you read between the lines of my post--I don't believe her PC-ism is genuine. It's merely a calculated response and appeasement to Gordan, etc. Therefore, she is attending a church that isn't in line with contemporary PC-ism. She's confused. She doesn't know who she is or what she really stands for or believes in. As I said, she’s stated that she was raised a Democrat, and probably remains one in good faith. Many, but not all, Democrats are also Liberals, so where she genuinely stands regarding Liberalism is a relative unknown. Personally, I don’t think she’s a very political animal. Her public statements and interviews don’t really reflect a deep understanding of politics. I haven’t disliked her political songs, but to the degree that they push her further into rigid PC-ism, I am against them. Nor do I want to see any virtue signaling.

I think this is absolutely true. The media, which is dominated by the Left in America and most of Europe, didn't like the "feminism just isn't an interesting concept' remark, her Old School 50s look and debutante gowns, and her songs about feeling passionate for men, which the media interpreted as submissive, or as 'female submission.' This was Kim Gordan's direct charge against LDR, and Gordan, though Gordan's era has passed, is still Alternative/Indie/Post-Punk royalty. Gordan's opinion carries definite weight in certain industry quarters. You might as well be criticized by Bob Dylan. So LDR wrote 'God Bless America,' 'Change,' and 'When The World Was At War' and other political songs she didn't include on the album, publicly came out against Trump, publicly announced she was putting a witch's curse on him, commented positively on the Women's March in D.C., etc. I think she did all of that to appease the forces on the Left that were railing against her for several years, though she was raised as a Democrat, as most of New York State is. She sort of buckled under and compromised or worse. That's where the early fire went, to my way of thinking. She put it out herself. And that's why I'm wary of the PC-ism that has crept into her lyrics and interviews. She's apparently become 'Woke LDR.'

I agree. She seemed more 'real' and authentic then. I've never felt or believed she is or was manufactured or the product of her father's or anyone else's money. She was more creative then too, with 'Meet Me in the Pale Moonlight,' 'Hollywood's Dead,' 'Live or Die'...the diversity and the attitude..'Last Girl on Earth.' 'Go Go Dancer.' So funny, lever and free to say, do and sing what she wanted to. Now there's the relative withdrawal of celebrity, the moody silences, and also the PC tip-toeing so 'names' like Kim Gordan, Eminem and Lorde don't come after her again. Personally, I think it's fair to speculate about her mental health on the basis of 'Hope,' and the influence of drugs cannot be ruled out, since she's sang about them, and even celebrated them, so much. Whatever it is, I would like Madeline back, the LDR of BTD/P, not the 'pod people' LDR. The quality of everything she's released has slipped and we've just accepted it because we love the powerful LDR of yore. I knew hard times were ahead when I saw the LFL cover, with the obviously fake, evenly-spaced daisies in her hair, the rote 'hippie lace dress,' and the smile, to say nothing of the interior photos, which, for me, were third-rate and half-assed.

That's right. There's definitely a comfortable, easy middle ground. Elizabeth Taylor is a perfect example--and LDR is only 30 or so! It still takes work, but hopefully most of us put something like that amount of effort into our own daily appearance, insofar as we're out in public, or for our spouse, partners, children and other relatives. Out of self-respect and respect for others.

In the distant past, relatively speaking, artists like Carly Simon sailed into their 30s and 40s looking as beautiful and striking as ever--and also mature and womanly, stylish and attractive, if not overtly sexual. And continued to be successful in the pop market. Debbie Harry of Blondie did the same thing--she was born the same year as Simon, and greatly reduced the more obviously sexual aspects of her persona as she aged. More recently, Tori Amos has struggled to find the right pop persona after 35 years of age, but has done a reasonably good job of it. There's no reason at all that LDR can't present herself as a beautiful, classy, sophisticated woman in her 30s or 40s, as Simon did, or as Julie Christie and Lauren Hutton appeared to the world in their 40s. 'Attractive' when applied to a woman doesn't have to mean 'cheap' or 'obvious' or 'overtly sexual.'

And let’s not forget that “next year” can turn into “I am going to release it in 2021” or beyond. She might as well just start recording a new album with newer songs and forget NFR. And let’s not forget that “next year” can turn into “I am going to release it in 2021” or beyond. She might as well just start recording a new album with newer songs and forget NFR.

Also well said. We were seduced by Madeline a la Hitchcock’s ‘Vertigo.’

Well said. It seems at least several of us feel this way.

Then she should have either made a definite statement about the album’s release—“it won’t be out for a full year”—or not mentioned it at all.

For me, poetry is a very definite thing, it’s structured and powerful, like a spell or incantation, in the tradition of the British Romantic poets, from William Blake on. LDR seems to instead be following the tradition that stems from Walt Whitman—her Daddy—which is often very loose and formless, or almost formless. That style became dominant in the 1950s, and remains so, because ‘anyone can do it.’ Today, virtually anything called “poetry” by the author, any author, is deemed to be so, and it’s considered an outrage to say it is not.

Then we’re pretty much in agreement. I also think she doesn’t want much of a celebrity life anymore and has slowly but surely been dismantling her past image and presenting us instead with a “this is just me, flawed and human like you” sort of thing. Sadly, however, at least for me, her music hasn’t gotten significantly better. The BTD title track, VG, ‘Blue Jeans,’ ‘Radio,’ ‘National Anthem,’ ‘Summertime Sadness,’ ‘Ride,’ ‘Cola,’ ‘American,’ Yayo,’ ‘Bel Air’ and Gods & Monsters’ remain among her best and most accomplished and definitive songs in my opinion. For me, compared to those tracks, much of UV and HM are ho-hum. I am interested to see where she’s going with the new record, but again, rhe PC-ism concerns me, and the mawkish sentimentalism of HTD too.

her image and sound are much more mature and grounded now, so is her brand What “brand”? She doesn’t have a brand at present and hasn’t for years. She’s just sort of there, an uneasy public figure who often looks awkward in the spotlight. Unlike the LDR of 2012, who appeared like a master of reality, like a truly poised, seductive, sophisticated woman of international scope and style, a sort of sleek, superior and commanding goddess.

I agree 100%. When was the last time the hipster DJ in-crowd was very enthusiastic about her music, took it and remixed it en masse? 2012. She hasn’t been considered ‘hip’ to that varied crowd since ‘Paradise,’ at the outside. She briefly and successfully presented herself to the world as an international style icon and influencer, which impressed millions, but then abruptly pulled the plug on that. Since then, her public image has been erratic, inconsistent and poorly-defined. To me, for all intents and purposes, she hasn’t really been Lana Del Rey since ‘Paradise.’ She was someone else in the last three albums, perhaps ‘’Elizabeth.’ Either way, she is not ‘hip’ now, not ‘cool,’ not ‘in.’ At the upscale Manhattan salon where I get my hair cut, they have a great LDR mix tape, but everything on it is from BTD/P. I say, “Have you heard the music she’s released since?” and the answer is typically something like, “Does she HAVE other albums??” or “I didn’t know she’s released anything else.” To me, that’s telling. Does it tell the whole story? No. I accept what she is now, but that’s not the same thing as liking it. I like MAC and VB, but I am wary of her increasing PC-ism in both her life and her music. I don’t like to see her constrained by it or advocating it.

. This is another important juncture where we should be being officially told that NFR is indeed still the new album’s name. The Vogue article should mention it, obviously, at least in passing. An album title change is not really such a big deal as far as the media and publicity is concerned, if it does come to that. There’s already a precedent with Honeymoon, which was initially announced as Music to Watch Boys To.

It's a stab at looking sophisticated again in a European way, but it doesn't have the easy, international glamour style of her initial LDR period, which looked so effortless and seemed genuine and convincing, as if she was living that life and lifestyle. In the third one, where she's standing with her hands against the glass, all she would need is graduation cap and she'd look like she was ready for Commencement.

Much of her 2012-forward fame was predicated on her appearance, which she exploited hand-over-fist, and fans and the media ate it up. So many, including me, are just continuing to follow that aspect of her career, since it was critical to her appeal and something she willed into existence or at least agreed to. Since she's taken a radical left turn in that regard, as an aspect of her career, it's a worthy topic. 'Image' has played a huge part in popular music, from Sinatra, Elvis, Little Richard, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Supremes, Dylan, Joni Mitchell, David Bowie, the Eagles, Led Zeppelin, James Taylor, Springsteen and Donna Summer to the Police, Duran Duran, Prince, Michael Jackson, the 80s big hair metal bands and Nirvana all the way to Ice Cube, L.L. Cool J, the Beastie Boys, Lady Gaga, Nick Jonas, Beyonce and Justin Bieber. It may not be an angle of popular culture that interests you, but it is a big slice of the pie, just as 'rock star dress and fashion' is, and has become the topic of traveling shows to the Metropolitan Museum in NYC and elsewhere.

Hilarious. Jocelyn Wildernstein indeed. That's going to be a shock for those who don't know who she is and go seeking photos of her. I know weight is a sensitive issue, but LDR looks like she's gained a good deal of weight, and that's what's altered her facial appearance so much (in addition to whatever work she might have had done). Look at the new photo of her with her boyfriend and other friends, and the woman on the cover of UV. I agree she can gain weight and age (as she must, as we all must) and still look healthy, attractive, tasteful, gracious, lovely. She doesn't have to be glamorous per se.