Vertimus

What were the witchcraft elements you found in the actual songs on LFL? I know a good deal about the subject and am not aware of any.

Anyone who knows even a fair amount about the broad history of American and British folk music in all its myriad forms and sub-genres recognizes that NFR is not a folk album of any kind, though it may have been folk-inspired, especially by the early 1970s ‘Laurel Canyon Sound’ that LDR seems to be fascinated with at present. Clearly, on NFR she’s taken a few cues from Joni Mitchell’s ‘Ladies of the Canyon’ and ‘Blue’ albums, both musically and lyrically. A sub-sub genre of American folk music, a sort of estranged cousin of the ‘Laurel Canyon Sound,’ is the early 1970s ‘Singer/Songwriter’ genre, which encompassed everyone from Carole King, Jackson Browne and Cat Stevens to James Taylor, Carly Simon, Melanie, Paul Simon, Karla Bonoff, Kris Kristofferson, John Denver, Janis Ian, Maria Muldaur and many others. If anything, NFR is much more of an attempt at a ‘Singer/Songwriter’ album than a legitimate folk album of any kind.

How many times must I come to these threads and see everyone trying to invalidate each others opinions instead of discussing them like adults. You’re all children that think you’re “right” so you can’t drop the fact that some people like an album and some people don’t. I’m not referring to one specific side of this argument either. It’s always the same handful of people. I don’t do that, attack people for what are, yes, ‘mere opinions.’ Almost everything expressed here IS mere opinion, and it makes no sense to attack others for having differing opinions. That is childish. Obviously, there’s a vast and much wider social context to all of this and the endless personal attacks and counter-attacks on individual tastes. We might hope for a fairly mature, ‘adult’ and restrained dialogue, but this is a pure democracy, and everyone gets their say, ‘adult’ or not.

For me, NFR remains flaccid. I agree with Max. NFR is like a pancake that looks properly cooked from the outside, but, when you cut into, turns out to have a lot of uncooked batter in the middle. Even if NFR was nothing but a collection of B-sides or outtakes, I would consider it flat, bland and mediocre as a whole.

My reaction has been exactly the opposite. I didn't care for it upon release and I still don't. For me, it has no center, no subtext, no substance or 'meat'. It certainly isn't a 'folk' record. She said it was what she wanted to do now, and I'm glad for her that she did exactly what she wanted. But it doesn't do a thing for me. CG would be a much, much better choice, especially if slightly remastered and amped up a bit. It had so much potential, music-wise, but they blew it with weak production and badly-recorded and muffled vocals. Still, if it's what LDR wanted, great. I'm glad she did it her way.

I'm glad LDR's performing Joni Mitchell songs--she did a serviceable job on the one verse of 'For Free' she sang in her concert--and dueting with the likes of Joan Baez, but she sounds terrible here.

'White Hot Forever,' if taken literally, certainly doesn't describe the sound of NFR. Since I'm a general non-fan of NFR, another 'similar' album is the last thing I want.

Several people have said the same thing here, including me, over the last several months. The chorus is beautiful and deserved something connected to it that was a lot better. I consider it the nadir of her songwriting on NFR. If I were not a fan of LDR's or didn't know her music at all, and heard HIAB, not only would the mashed-together quality still jump out at me, but I'd think she was an amateur or flash-in-the-pan, not the person who was capable of writing 'Ride,' ‘Yayo,’'Old Money,' 'Black Beauty,' 'Terrence Loves You' and '13 Beaches.' I'm surprised Jack allowed himself to be associated with it. The 'ba-a-bies' and 'oh-who-whos' are so forced and lazy.

Honest and well said. 'CG' is too much in the style of 'Religion,' but with a few highs and lows, fewer dramatic turns.

maxdenhaag Also, I understand that a lot of people regard Venice Bitch as one of her best songs, and while I really like it, I just don't feel like the 6 minutes instrumentals adds much to the song. Just really weirdly recorded guitar licks and the "woah wha-ever, wha-ever, beautiful" or whatever. I'm not going to pretend like this song is a masterpiece just because it's 10 minutes long. It just has this really dry/flat tone that I cannot get my head around, it lacks bass and beats (except on Cinnamon Girl and How To Disappear), but as for the rest of this album it's flat. Think of it this way: what would VB have been without the six minutes of instrumentation? I think Jack or someone said, "It's not much of a song as it is, we'll have to do something to beef it up." I agree 100% about the dry/flat tone.

I agree with both of you. Getting two of the best songs a year in advance didn't help, and then 'Doin' Time' as well. 'Hope' might have been a lot more impactful if it hadn't been released in any form until the album dropped. 'CG' is my favorite but even on it, the production seems lacking--it could have been so such tenser, suspenseful, dramatic and powerful with just a few key production shifts. Instead, I like it best by default. I also like 'Bartender,' but it seems more like an interesting bonus track than a great LDR song. 'Cigarettes & Lollipops' and 'Wild On You' both played randomly on my 'My Top Rated' playlist yesterday, and how much more interesting both seemed to me than all of NFR. I also prefer 'LFL' to NFR, vastly. The world understands, by 2019, as it did by 2015 and 2014, that LDR is not just a pretty flash-in-the-pan pop star who got lucky with 'VG' and who can write clever little pop ditties like 'Radio' and 'National Anthem.' I still feel LDR is motivated to prove to the world that she's a legitimate artiste and is going to continue banging us over the head with that fact until she gets it out of her system---if ever. In the meantime, she's driving a lot of fans away and releasing mediocre albums (but then, I don't see her an an 'album artist' anyway, though of course it would be great if she were). Being dour and severe doesn't make one a better artist, just as writing 'noble songs about social causes' doesn't. To me, she's like a great natural comedian who has decided that comedy is for children, and always will be, and so she's decided to give it up for a 'serious acting career' a la Meryl Streep. LDR can certainly write terrific 'serious' songs like 'Old Money' and '13 Beaches,' great dramatic tracks like 'Cola' and great middle-of-the-road tracks like 'Ride,' but I really miss the uber-light touch, energy and enthusiasm she brought to 'Radio,' 'National Anthem,' 'American,' 'Hollywood's Dead,' 'Making Out,' 'Meet Me in the Pale Moonlight,' 'Hollywood,' 'JFK,' 'AFFA' and so many others. So I see her wasting one of her greatest gifts. I felt NFR rated a 'C' and no better or worse upon release, and I still feel that way.

What about ‘Playing Dangerous,’ where the young pyromaniac seduces the police officer? Maybe it’s been one of her fantasies for a while. ‘Centerist’ she may be, and she may have been raised to be a Democrat like most of NY State, but I have seen conservative elements in her songs and vision since Elizabeth became LDR.

I agree 100%. The 'happiness is a butterfly' part is good, but the other parts are hilariously bad, especially at this point in her career, and BaAy-A-Bee' and 'oooh-hoo-oohhs' are so lazy and pedestrian.

Whatever happened to ‘Talk Like An Answering Machine’?

I like your description/prediction. I would love that. I personally would like something sonically like AFFA or ‘Hollywood,’ as well as ‘JFK’ and most of the Paradise tracks. For me, HM was a little cold, so I would like some of the heated emotions of ‘Cola,’ even if fake/artificial. All art is artifice!

LDR is not necessarily over the ‘artificial’ style of BTD/P. She did say HM was “closer in style to the first two” several times upon its release, and ‘Art Deco’ and ‘Religion,’ and even ‘TLU,’ seem very much like BTD/P tracks, as do a couple on LFL. And then there's CG on NFR. I like the ‘artificial’ style best. I am sure it will come and go on her releases.

I just heard ‘Making Out’ for the first time in a while and it sounded so much more robust, witty, creative and free than most of NFR... I really hope LDR, one day, will want to make fun, clever and slightly satiric pop music again. I hope that that is direction WHF moves towards.

All her albums have problems for me, except for P, which only has the cover of BV I don’t care for. That’s why I don’t think of LDR as an album artist. I like as many songs on each album as I dislike, and I am fine with that, because those I like I really like. Jack just did a so-so job with the production, but the songwriting isn’t uniformly her best either. The lack of bridges doesn’t help. But I do expect her to work again on WHF with Jack, especially due to the critical notices they’ve received, and clearly they get along well.

Absolutely, when Lana was still fun, and producing these half-satiric takes on pop music, like ''Making Out' and MMITPM. I don't mind a little sadness and seriousness, like the BTD title track, 'Ride' and '13 Bitches,' but the too-heavy, too serious, too 'I-take-myself-ultra-seriousness-now' Lana is a drag. To me, it's like she's beating a dead horse on a lot of the songs from the last four albums. At least on WTWWAWWKD, 'God Bless America' and 'BPBP,' she added some levity to the lyrics and music.

That was her best sound, production and persona for me.

I agree. 'Cinnamon' especially sounds thick and muffled, as if it were recorded with a pillow over the mic, unlike, say, TG. I like the arrangement on 'Cinnamon,' but the engineering is awful. Compare it to ‘Hope.’

What about the use of industrial/ ‘thunder’ noises in the ‘Cinnamon’ outro? I loathing they’re a plus, but haven’t seen anyone else mention them.

I wish this song had been on NFR. The ‘Carefree Lana’ persona is the best Lana to me.

Full agree! ‘Meet Me in the Pale Moonlight’ is fantastic. ‘Making Out’ too.