slang

#irony With respect to Put Me in a Movie, I'll bet LDR just figured it was OK to write about Lolita-esque themes because of the amazing amount acclaim Nabokov got for doing so (i.e., "Many authors consider it [Lolita] the greatest work [book] of the 20th century"). It's ironic that Nabokov got that acclaim by writing of Lolita from a 1st person male perspective, which "gives very little information about what Lolita is like as a person, that in effect she has been silenced by not being the book's narrator"; whereas, LDR usually writes from the 1st person female perspective -- as if she wanted to give the character a voice -- and is usually slut-shamed for it. In my opinion, PMIAM is not an overly explicit, or even a raunchy song. It's possibly disturbing, but it's also fair game for an artistic treatment as Nabokov and current societal vices suggest. I also don't think LDR is overly fixated specifically on "Lolita" views of feminine sexuality. I mean smarty, serial killer (if you think the SK character as female), gogo dancer, cola, or even the song Lolita, do not remind me much of Lolita, the character from the book. source for quotes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita

You go to the grammy's and sing and flub up; it's a time-honored tradition. NFR, the song, as SOTY nominee is the logical choice, with Jack at piano. Would she change the lyrics to "kissed me so hard ..."? Or keep the lyrics as is and be bleeped out. I hope she would do the latter, because then everybody would actually know what that (brilliant) lyric is. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country/taylor-swifts-label-lashes-out-at-critics-of-grammy-performance-65110/ https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-grammys-adele-power-play-20170213-story.html

I prefer HIAB (currently) for the following reasons: 1) The outro to CG seems like the most Jack-fucking-around-episode on the entire record. I'll probably regret saying this if I ever find out that it was really LDR effing around, but I'll take that chance. 2) HIAB got a video treatment (some would say this is a bad thing). 3) Also "serial killer" as used in HIAB seemed perfectly understandable and relatable to me, because I knew the song Serial Killer, which I interpreted as a metaphor for someone who enjoys being in many serial relationships. However, it's horrific, if you don't have that reference/interpretation. So I guess I like the idea she's communicating with stans rather GP newbies with that line. I also like the idea that the horrific line is combined with a really corny melody. She's really showing her multitudes there.

The issue that causes some people (e.g., me) to resist the critical acclaim she's getting now is a kind of perceived dishonesty in critics for why they are giving her the acclaim. They attribute their praise to something she did differently in NFR rather than just for their critical opinions changing about what she does over releases. The capsule review you cited above kind of hedges it both ways. Unlike people who believe NFR is blasé, I believe NFR acclaim is warranted; however, I also believe that had LFL been her most recent release (and NFR released after HM), LFL would be up for album of the year, with maybe one of its singles (change?) up for song of the year. I could be wrong, of course, but nobody can prove me wrong, lol.

One order of "self-proclaimed diehard stan pretending 'to get' something out of her most recent NFR trio-video" [hold the fries]: So ... maybe I was wrong thinking all the critical acclaim she was getting for her "newfound" maturity would make it even less likely she would release a retrospective leaks/unreleased album. I mean if the video (or her releasing it) were some kind of caustic/ironic reaction to all the critics calling her more "mature" these days, then anything's (still) possible. #silverLinings #justiceForGangsterBoy

I have mixed feelings about BTD/Tropico-level videos, because, as great as they surely are, they must be a substantial distraction from producing music and may also accrue unhealthy debt to a record label. I'd rather she'd be just producing the music with as much freedom as she can. As far as this slapdash, informal video in her instagram-aesthetic goes, she did actually say: "Had the best time shooting with my sister and my friends, fucking around in a rented cop car in an abandoned parking lot. We’re weirdos don’t mind us". So obviously high artistic intentions is not the point of this, although I still enjoyed it. The brief cop-car scene (in the VB video, which predates this a year+) might have been how Sean got his first crack at her (asking her where she rented the cop car; it's probably a special Hollywood thing, as we know cop cars are often used in films). It may also be how she got the idea of Duke on the cover (and isn't Duke a friend of Chuck's?), so despite its modesty/laziness/arbitraryness, it may have had an important impact on her life (and the NFR aesthetic), so I'm kind of glad she's letting us see it. Anyway, NFR is seemingly more of a poetry era. Well just have to wait and see.

Stuff for frivolous complaining about: lip-synching piano : check! [and I would like to know if she's actually trying to, or playing, the piano part] Friends in video, with sister directing/photographing: check! Silly metaphors with sinister overtones: food fight with cops: check! [bTW, don't know why I thought Marie Antoinnette when she threw the sandwich, but I did.] Taunt at persona-fixated critics: "I'm dying", while laughing [her only spoken lines?]: check! Taunt at needy fans, who hate when she recycles video footage: flipping butterfly birds: check! And probably other things I'm too dense to notice. Yeah, it's a hand-made video, but I'm happy with it.

I don't know if the majority of fans discount AKA or not, but I do grate my teeth and get upset whenever I run across retrospective review articles about LDR, by "professional" critics, that refer to AKA as either a) a failure, or b) conventional pop. It seems to happen, at least occasionally, and as soon as I see it, I discount the critics' other views (even if I agree with them). Also, just to show a variety of impressions when comparing LDR's albums, I see NFR as closer to May Jailer (albeit with monster production chops) and AKA as more similar to LFL (because of the genre-slipstreaming in both). Finally, "... hope she is able to rerelease it someday" maybe should have been worded "... hope she is *willing* to rerelease it someday". I mean she took it off the market, so it stands to reason she can put it back on. I've got two posts (page 1 & 2, this thread) on the re-release topic.

Here's my take. The volume increasing and the jingle bells becoming more prominent toward the end of HTD reflect a musical irony (in the non-Alanis-Morissette sense) of the person singing getting stronger and more life anchored, even though the person she has sung about has done the reverse (i.e., disappeared). Of course, for Lanaboards, the jingle bells and increasing volume at that part of the song reflect irony in the Alanis-Morissette sense (i.e., just something bad happening).

"... merely giving my two cents" If you left-click on "view replies" (52xx of them) it turns out you're the top responder for this thread. Just saying that's more than "2 cents". "gloat about ..."year/decade end list is news (one of the things I come to LB for) and not a *random* GP opinion. "Also bold of you to assume..."While I agree more people haven't bought the album than have, I think the proper metric for discussion on "liking NFR relatively" is going to be sales. If it ends up selling more than UV or HM, that will say something much more meaningful than a bunch of internet posts do, even if the sales go against my particular opinion of what her best album is. Comments not part of a response: The only thing that makes me "sad" about NFR's critical acclaim is that it may make it (even) less likely she'll do her leaks/unreleased retrospective that she suggested she'd do (way back when, was it LFL era?). Also I wish people would talk more specifically about NFR production attrocities (I mean name songs with timestamp specific-ness), so I'd know what they're talking about. It's not as self-evident to me. I also wish people would talk more about her AOTY competitors and what she's competing against. Seems like a strong set of contenders, but very diverse in the sense of why they are strong. I'm bored, break up with your zeitgeist.

Whether or not something's mature depends on intention somewhat. So FMUTTT in the context of MPG (being the song before it) and the way critics viewed her in the past seems a sophisticated and biting counter-attack (aka very mature), but the interpretation (we talked about it at LB) that had Lorde as the hypothetical diss object would not have been very mature. I think you could argue UV lyrics are simpler than NFR lyrics, but who cares about that as the torch singing was far better on UV. But full agree. NFR is not more mature (although she's older now) or more magnum than her previous albums. For me, if I loved NFR only 3/4's the amount of what I love AKA, I'd still want to buy NFR.

Just curious: do you like her poetry a lot? Because one would think she's *never* intending to be lazy when writing a poem. As for lazy vs. great lyrics in her songs, couldn't help but be reminded of this:

Heard a Red Hot Chili Peppers' song called Venice Queen and thought of VB. Topically they're at least related (though the perspective is male in VQ). I find RHCP lyrics, in this particular case, not awful, but not aweful either (forgive the pun), particularly because they're harder to understand than VB lyrics. Anyway, when LDR said a little bit of RHCP in NFR, I'm wondering if she meant this song in particular. The melodies are way different, of course, but the songs also share an acoustic guitar vibe in the first half.

I think your criticisms of NFR will have more validity, if on the next album she sounds like NFR again. Then you can really say she's "tamed". As it is, the album in the context of previous ones, is not a simple repetition of her past style, or anybody's style currently, and that can be impressive, if you like what she did. I like what she did more than you, so I'm less critical about it. As for the critics going apeshit over NFR, I think a lot of this can be explained by critics just not wanting to look stupid in the future, or maybe they actually like this style the best, idk. At any rate, I'm glad she got the AOTY nomination, in the same sense that I'm glad Kendrick Lamar got a Pulitzer prize for DAMN, even if it wasn't necessarily his best album.

Nice interview. As much as I hate the idea of turning any seminal pop album (e.g., Jagged Little Pill) into a Broadway musical, I really, really liked the idea that she would only let them do it, if they could retrofit a non-autobiographical plot to the songs (and there's supposed to be two new ones by her, as well). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvqI_p7atHU Reasons I Drink is OK, I'm warming up to it. Yeah, it's like the Sande song, but only on the (basic) piano beat, and the chorus seems characteristically hers. Her voice is definitely older, but still powerful and recognizably hers.

The outro, specifically the terminal piano part, initially annoyed me too. Then I sort of rationalized it (see below). TG grew on me (I guess from initially annoying to interesting, but definitely not my top tier for the album). "Hella compressed" : The beginning of it, on my equipment/ripping, has some noticeable overamplification (fuzzing). Other than that I don't really notice its compression, maybe because most pop is "hella compressed", but I wonder if TG stands out as being the most compressed song on NFR. TG's piano getting really tinny at the end, with the repetition of the piano motif and final resolution (tonally speaking) musically reminds me of the death rattle of a terminally-ill patient taking their last breaths. Not that I think that will make you like the end of the song any better, but the way you worded your comment about it seemed very poignant to me.

^ Ouch, that bodes ill. The video/single isn't available in my dimension yet, so I can't judge anything. I like her stuff prior to HABL (which is meh compared to her earlier work) and I think her self-banished "Alanis" albums, in the early 90s (where she's sort of like Britney Spears way before Britney Spears), is underrated. Anyway, it's weird when people I think are creative decline, and therefore interesting (and depressing) to witness, but I still hope she'll make a comeback by producing something of merit. A lot has happened since 2012.

The album Havoc and Bright Lights was 2012, so "nine years" is a little off (unless you're not counting HABL, which I, and a lot of critics, thought ended her career). She was one of my first pop musical "crushes", and I am hoping she comes back hard (aka angrily) and successfully. No news on the producer?

Just some stuff one could argue/suggest... "There's a new revolution, a loud evolution that I saw Born of confusion and quiet collusion of which mostly I've known <<< feels bad about Trump and not supporting Clinton more>>> A modern day woman with a weak constitution, 'cause I've got Monsters still under my bed that I could never fight off <<< allusions to substance abuse >>> A gatekeeper carelessly dropping the keys on my nights off <<< fear of lapses>>> "

The Grammys have treated LDR relatively well recognition-wise. BTD was ignored but Paradise was nominated. It's supposed to be a peer-voting organization to determine the nominations and award, so a nomination is considered a win over all those not nominated. While UV and HM are ignored, LFL and NFR, two pretty contrasting albums, are recognized via nominations. I think at some point peer intimidation just becomes outweighed by the desire not to appear stupid in posterity (well that's my theory). BTW, if you go to grammy.com and click the search button, enter an artist's name, follow the artist's name's link, you can see their nomination/win history. For instance, try it for David Bowie (he was recognized more slowly than LDR was, objectively speaking).

I was really hoping for an important award category like Best Recording Package or Best Country Album, but these two noms are pretty good too. I think the chances of AOTY are decent. Ariana's already recognized (not as much as she could be though, need another Beck over Beyonce moment); Eilash needs to be tested further. But shit, anything can happen. BTW, Jack is also nominated for producer of the year.

Some specific comparisons of "better production" (or is it style?) than NFR that I saw: @Vertimus REM "Suspicion"? Great song, reminds me of Bryan Ferry quite a bit. While I would agree LDR would nail a Bryan-Ferry-esque style/production, she just wasn't shooting for that. NFR doesn't bank on suave and cool like Bryan Ferry does, but more on aching and vulnerability, imo. I've described NFR as ethereal/schmaltzy/NewOrleans/dirge. It's not "folk", but I would also describe NFR as "not not folk", in the sense that there are artist like Dylan and Cohen that are clearly aligned to folk but slip genres quite a bit. @MXDH VB doesn't remind me of Pink Floyd (Shine on you crazy ...) that much. It reminds me of Simon and Garfunkal sort of taking a detour through The Doors, specifically this Doors: Having listened to VB off and on over a year and post release, the instrumental part strikes me as pretty well composed, as in a set of micro variations on themes from the song-part of the song. Maybe Jack deserves the lion's share of the credit, idk, but I think LDR's vocal additions (interesting to compare to Jim's) also have a lot to do with it. I also think VB compares decently or interestingly to other long tracks of comparable artists (e.g. Cat Power's got a long track on Sun, Nothing but Time; Paul McCartney's got a long track on Driving Rain, Rinse the raindrops; and the Doors track as I suggested).

The album version of SS is a signature song to be sure, but you have to measure an artists' creative magnitude by how many signature songs they ultimately have, not just in the fact that they have a couple. IMO, LDR has quite a few signature songs, on either temporal side of the BTD release (and within BTD itself). Let me add to the shit stain idea (if I understand it). It should refer not only to the popularity of the remix (in sales) over everything else in LDR's discog, but also the fact, that of all of her work, the derivative remix is the only work that actually won a grammy (which means she didn't actually get a grammy). Hopefully, this will be rectified at the next grammys.

I hear "momma's always..." [breaks off and resets] To me, this strengthens this interpretation of the song: incorrect link-to-post pre-update form: http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/10278-norman-fucking-rockwell-pre-release-thread/?p=772598 correct link-to-post post-update form: http://lanaboards.com/topic/10278-norman-fucking-rockwell-pre-release-thread/page/1799/?=comments#comment-772598

So if you go Wikipedia on the topic Rollingstones 500 greatest albums, Elton supposedly has 6 (along with Bowie), although, I could only find 5 here: https://musicbrainz.org/series/8668518f-4a1e-4802-8b0d-81703ced6418?page=1 and on google. Tumbleweed Connection (458), Honky Chateau (359), Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy (158), Elton's Greatest Hits (136), Goodbye Yellowbrick Road (91). I'll opine Madman Across the Water, just as a personal honorable mention. Bernie Taupin really gave Elton a huge range of song topics (some risqué for the time). They were also quite interested in Americana/nostalgia. It's possible GYR (#91) is counted twice, because it's a "double" album, idk. GYR is the best one to check out if you like LDR's leaks/unreleased, imo. I have often thought one could put together a double album of her best leaks/unreleased to get something as inventive, diverse, and compulsively listenable as GYR. Captain Fantastic is also very good, comparable with NFR and BTD (as improbable as that seems). Anyway, hobnobbing with Elton John is definitely a career highwater mark in promo that postures LDR's pop icon-ness. If I seem to remember Pat Grant relishing the fact LDR was on the cover of Rollingstone for UV, this occurrence on RS must have really blown her mind. ETA: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/447474912950438336/