LaMartine

there's no use to complain about someone's loss at this point but i checked again and this is the only contribution to music 30stm have done since 2013, unless there are some deep cuts or obscure tracks that have been released i can't find 

their album isn't even out, how does that justify a nomination in the first place? 

 5/13/15 

humm ok not only i missed lb being on fire but lana didn't get the award. honestly i'm surprised bc i really thought she had a large + supportive fanbase, i lit always had the mtv site on lana's nom opened when i was on my computer and i expected  maybe ID or Lorde to win at most, at least we have heard of them. I didn't even register 30 jared letos were in the competition? (and he's such a creep too, how   ) 

At least hot mama served a mature and gorg gucci LOOK, her hair was beautiful and she attended an award 

Shoot - are they not working for everyone??

can't see them  

i fucking love you and your aes sis

i think i'll wait a week or two before listening to it, i won't buy it or risk any hadopi warnings    

this is so pretty!!   wow

can i ask you what font did you use? 

i have my hopes up for the technicolor mv she *kinda* teased/announced, it's probable that once a new era will start  with LDR6 people will look at this one more fondly    

Also, @  is back *-*    

is this album gonna drop on streaming devices soon, in full? 

these are beautiful, all of them! you're very talented  

Heroin is NOT part of the trinity fats, for the final time it's Love, Change, Get Free.

your taste is questionable but you always make me laugh 

i"m not 100% on mine but this was an exercise in fast decision making 

Sharon Tate was 8 and a half months pregnant at the time of her murder, btw.

 

Cultural infantalists lose again.

 

and i never found that interesting to talk about. Never was interested in Manson or references of him, but that's what American's do and talking about Manson isn't prohibited like talking about Harvey isn't prohibited just to remind you. But talking about having a consensual relationship with him now that he's a known rapist/harasser, and that many women for 30 years were afraid to come off as liars because rape culture makes the song embarrassing. Not the same thing that censorship is. All these women (and others) stayed shut because relationships with moguls were portrayed like in that song: it's their fault, they were the instigators, they wanted the jewels, the favours and to become famous, they started it, and thus they are lying about being raped. It furthers a toxic culture and lana is seeing it's doing more harm than good and she doesn't like it anymore. She doesn't like it, but y'all don't want to understand that. It will probably take her some time to start seeing things differently. 

But if you're going to be like this and belittle me because I don't agree with you, all right. But you can't dump all examples into one mold and then talk about double standards.   

You basically admit that you don't care for the murders because it doesn't affect you "the same way" and you only care for the weinstein incident because it's new. So that means in 5-10 years you won't care for that either anymore? Interesting view. Also Manson was trying to be a musician and couldn't make it so he used young people to commit heinous crimes in his honour to gain a "legacy".

But what is making a "point" in Heroin, Freak music video about the present? Lana filmed a rape reenactment vid with Eli Roth and you know there is people in the world being raped right now. Too soon?

 

i'm not gonna quote everything you say and answer in full, I'm just gonna say that I don't see everything in black and white I don't apply moral calvinism for what is right and what is wrong, neither do I believe the 60s to be the beacon of what is le bon gôut. I never said sexual harassment was worse than murders, unfortunately those women, men and children who were:are harassed find i more difficult to come out: a lot of these women have claimed that their managers instead of protecting them pushed them to harvey saying that he was a scary guy and of they could survive a meeting with him they were strong and could survive anything. These people because of the culture got used to be treated like victims, and the abuse and rape has become something that had to be endured because that's the way of the business. Harvey was a bully and was also somewhat close to Lana. For me, this doesn't even compare to the 60s murders, it's a different league of affair completely that I see through to new lenses. Lana has written a song that was supposed to be ironic and fun about a mogul preying on women and doing the fast life, she also quoted the crystals line "he hit me and it felt like a kiss". Both songs, UV and and Cola, feature things that Lana has grown out of and doesn't want to perform anymore. It's like most of us who cringe at stuff we said and did 4 years ago except that for her it's released songs. So what, she wants to take it out?? She's needs time or she's acquiring a new perspective? I don't remember myself or people on this forum throwing stones at her tbh. I just believe that an artist who decides to take something off is mostly for personal reasons like growth, doubt and etc not just for fear mongering and censorship like y'all are implying. And an Artist should be free to take back what they said and change their opinions. Cola is a song that heavily implied Harvey and featured a starlet that was very eager to be in a relationship with him despite the public opinion and "his wife". And now lana realises that that stuff isn't funny anymore, because what was really happening were a plethora of women getting harassed and getting raped. The song that heavily implied Harvey, someone she knew, wasn't the same song anymore. And now, if i may add, with time she can change the lyric and take back her song, that's what i believe. Would that even happen? 

It's like you don't wan to see how things are supposed to be seen individually and not all dumped in the same bucket, she's not singing about murdering celebrities/people for a current manson figure. She was singing about being in a consensual scandalous relationship with a man-figure she knew very well and now turns out to be a rapist/harasser and she's taking it back. But I don't think we will ever agree on things because we really don't see things the same way. 

!!!!! THIS! basically what i tried to say in 5 times as many words 

if it wasn't for you sis, doing the god's work and already saying what i thought, i would have probably written an essay   i have to constantly practice restraint 

Let's stir some shit 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP4eqhWc7sI

I love this @@vodkaa, i'll keep it short tho. 

the song is cute and the instrumental is gorgeous on its own but I still think Lana and Abel should have been capable of coming up with better, at least in terms of execution. I still don't fully understand what she wanted to convey in this track, since in the video she seems to put down a black notebook before getting up and dance with death/the edge lord/the weeknd, anyway if this wasn't the title track and if lana had made more videos I would like it more. Lana and Abel singing in a high register is something of a     for me, i prefer her spoken word and his "secrets" voice. 

I don't think its a matter of being "comfortable" to quote now or tomorrow or in 5-10 years. The manson murders and jonestown massacre just because they happened decades ago doesn't mean its "okay or not okay" then and now to use as reference.They are horrible events that no matter how many years will pass they will be still important and shocking parts of history.

Who says it will be ok in 5-10 years for weinstein? and not just for weinstein but for any horrible event like the manson murders.who says when it's 'okay' or not for that and how they draw the line for the Harvey incident but not for the manson murders? No it's not delicate because it involves people and new voices, they are all delicate not just the Harvey incident. the manson murders is delicate too, jonestown massacre is delicate too, pedophilia, violence and so on. They are all important. If singing about manson is "okay" then it should be "okay" for Cola too. There is no difference in those events because they are all in fact important and shocking and horrible. As for the Harvey case, the only "new and fresh" bit is the exposure of Harvey's actions. The stories of those women that came forward are not "fresh". They all came forward to share stories that happened 5-10-20 years ago.

If people are okay with lana or any other artist singing about the manson murders,jonestown,lolita and pedophilia,violence etc then they should be okay for Harvey in the Cola song too. No exceptions. They can't cherry pick and say "Oh! I love when lana is singing about the manson murderss in that song yess i love it, but no no no i dont want her to sing about Harvey in that song". This is hypocritical. They either won't like ALL of those songs or they like them all. No exceptions.

 

Well of course Lolita and that theme is a taboo. It's about an adult molesting a 12 year old.Also there is rumors about the author of Lolita being a pedophile.As for clockwork orange, UV was named after that novel and that novel features probably the most famous rape scene in a movie of all time. Yet lana is singing without any problem about all the above. There is no issue singing for the manson murders or the jonestown massacres (where 909 people died) or pedophilia,domestic violence,etc yet somehow its not "ok" for her to sing about Harvey? Says who?

And how exactly those tragedies "transcended censorship" just because they are decades old? What about the manson murders and how Sharon Tate was brutally murdered with her baby still inside her?? What about her sister that is still alive to this day and has to live everyday with the horror of what happened to her sister? Are you going to tell her "hey get over it.it's decades old.people can sing about it" ?

What about the 900+ dead people in Jonestown massacre? They are all dead. It's okay to sing about them but not for Harvey? How? Who says that?

 

Ramones, Neil Young, David Bowie, and many more acts were singing about the Manson murders/referring to Manson very early on,so is time still an issue for these people? what about all the rappers who refer to heinous crimes making punchlines out of them too?

"time" is no excuse whether it's decades old, or 1 year old or fresh. People use columbine,manson etc all the time. It's not even a matter of what is "socially acceptable" either. It's not socially acceptable to sing about being beaten either but lana does it. so what?

 

 

I think it's utterly ridiculous to say that Lana is upset by the Harvey incident because I'm sure she is helluva upset about the manson murders too, the jonestown massacre,pedophilia,violence. She is upset for ALL of those things but she still sings about all of them, so why not sing about Harvey too? There is absolutely no logic in this. No logic at how people assume and say "ohh it's okay for lana to sing about manson murders who cares its decades old but noooo it's not okay to sing about Harvey" Where is the logic? I see none. Just because one event is 5-10-20 years old doesn't take away the horror and importance from it. They will be all equally upsetting.

We can't be "okay" with one and "not okay" with the other. We will be okay with ALL of them or not at all.

 

The only reason lana agreed and did the smart move to remove Cola is because people will be disgusting and try to bully and ruin her. Not because it "upset" her. Yes what happened with Harvey upset her just like how the manson murders and pedophilia and everything else she sings about in her songs upset her too.

 

You guys keep mentioning that with time these cases push through censorship, so what? Does that change the pain of over 900 families? That's how many died in jonestown. Does that change the 7 victims families that were left affected by the murders the manson family carried out? Will the pain miraculously disappear for the victims of Harvey Weinstein? No. So how come in your minds Lana singing about the manson family, domestic violence, pedophilia etc and demonstrating rape in the video with eli roth or mass murder like in jonestown massacre inspired freak video is ok due to "time passing"? people are still widely affected by this and copycat crimes too. no matter how much time passes, one isn't better than the other.

You guys just want to make yourselves feel better about your hypocrisy towards the matter because you conveniently forgot that the other things Lana sings about that you love and treasure is just as "bad" as the Harvey line in Cola.

 

 

I don't agree with you, I actually think time changes perspective on things. What is general culture and what is hot piping current events are two different things, this is why people say "it's too soon". I am personally more affected by the Harvey Weinstein claims because i'm a young woman soon to be thrust into the workforce, 1960s sociopathic sex cults and murderers don't affect me the same way even tho they were horrific. They have relevance today and have been analysed/talked about enough that time allows for an artist to quickly cite them in their body of work; I'm not against Lana talking about dark themes and in fact there are elements of pedophilia , female subjugation/objectification that ring true and grounds her art in real life.

And historically artists have always referred to the past to make a point about the present rather than use what is going on if it's sensitive and there's censorship. And I believe that an artist censoring themselves isn't losing, a good and mature artist probably is capable of getting their point across differently.   

Like think about "The Betrothed", the novel by A. Manzoni: it's considered one of the main opuses of italian literature, the first italian modern novel and the first one to use modern italian. It was written when the country was under foreign (Austrian) occupation and it was strictly forbidden to talk negatively about the regimen but "lucky for him" Italy has already been occupied different times by other nations. Manzoni "pretended" (everyone knew it was a bluff/not real/jocking) that he found a manuscript in an attic about a romance and updated the language for current readers. But the book isn't just about that, (not only it tackles themes of human psyche and morality) it's about living under Spanish occupation, how it means for a country and its functioning and how it affects every strata of a society; and more importantly it was absolutely a critique of the "current" austrian occupation and somewhat a pamphlet for a free country.

A lot of artists flirt between what is acceptable and what is taboo, and it is a widespread belief that time changes perspectives, there's no strict rule to how handle events except of what the general population think. It may not seem logical for some but it is for me, I understand that if we cared, we will always have to deal to what is average/acceptable by popular standards. And maybe it upsets lana personally how someone she knew was harassing maybe raping so many women, when something makes you this uncertain then you take it out until you can articulate your feelings better and you (and in this case) society have/s healed.Also the crimes aren't even the same, sexual harassment and murder aren't the same. Murder victims are cold dead and sexual harassment victims have a hard time to be heard to be believed ,that's why it's delicate; and this is just to see things one way before i write a novel about that too. I mean I don't really know much about the philosophy of passing of time, but if I did i think I would do a better job at expressing myself because Time allows for things to become from personal to belonging and available to everyone. So if you can't see how things can change when time passes we will never agree. Anyway in a broad sense I expect an artist to be smart about their art, not everything should be spoon fed in a low context matter where everything is super direct, and artist also have the ability to change their opinions. Lana had a some time to process the weinstein matter, by the time this interview happened a lot of articles talked about "cola" specifically so she knew what everyone was thinking. She made the decision to take it off, and probably she discussed that with the interviewer beforehand that's why it seems she's heavily suggesting. Just because an artist seems to "cater" and to "self-censor" doesn't always mean it's a bad thing. They are people too and when new information arrives they also need the time and take a step back to think about this on a greater perspective and scale, this is how people continue on learning and maturing.  

i'm gonna be honest, i somewhat like trump in that sense that he's amusing as fuck lmao. he says and does some of the most ridiculous shit that I've ever seen a man over 50 do, he's so incredibility hypocritical and ironic, seems to have a superiority complex and the best part? He had the ability to have people  who actually voted for, supported him, and think he'd be a great president, telling others "give him a chance!111". I gotta give him some credit there, you'd think with some of the shit that came up, things like making fun of a disabled man people would shy away from voting for him, but NOPE, he still got people to support him. Then again, his supporters are a mix of people who run around with confederate flags saying it wasn't about slavery but states rights and it's their "heritage", people who scream at liberals for trying to be politically correct all the time yet throw a HUGE ASS fit because someone kneels during the national anthem, you get the gist.

 

No doubt, he's probably going to be counted as one of the worst presidents of the U.S, which will probably harm his ego and cause him to go on some mass-speculation rant on twitter. Oh well, I'm just waiting for some more "little rocket man" shit to make me chuckle.

i don't give him any credit whatsoever, from what we have noticed since the elections, trump:

doesn't have the ability to have empathy

feel remorse or grief 

always thinks he is right about everything and he can do no matter what 

doesn't have the ability to know what is right from wrong even when it's basic knowledge 

doesn't ever learn about his experience and that's also a problem for his administration, it's like we're in a loop where we've been through this over and over 

i'm not coming at you sis, not at all; you're not wrong.  i'm just saying that instead of being a person who actually has built confidence over the years and has toughen up, all he has that works for him are traits of a character disorder and he's keeping us hostages. At least he grew up super rich and isn't very smart? Because if he were capable of learning maybe he'd look like a proper president and he'd fuck the world even harder but even in that case you can notice what is wrong and see through to his impairments. 

the only good thing about this shit show is probably that the some of worse people are showing their cards, he's allowing some people to be their ugly self in public (not everyone, there are still other people "smart" enough not to come out about their bad behaviour and such). But that's positive if you are a privileged person living here who is actually from the future and hangs around us because they need to understand what the f has happened for their thesis on human behaviour and the relation with the political condition they are groomed in. Or just an historian who want to know what really is going on. 

 

as for FMWTTT was satorical and a direct reply to Lorde after what Lorde said. That song was never meant to be taken seriously (and was one of two songs that she opened the curtain so to say, and was speaking

direct not in character.)

 

about that, i've wanted to post this on the unpopular lana opinions for some time but laziness: if fmwuttt is to lorde, i'm not comfortable with lana calling an underage brazen girl a whore    and i don't even like Lorde 

I liked this interview! and lana looked so comfortable with the interviewer! but I feel there was a part that I believe was unnecessary and kinda forced and made Lana feel uncomfortable. When the interviewer asked her about Cola... the way she practically forced Lana to agree to remove the song from the list with how she was like "a song you will retire from the catalogue now?" Lana didn't have really a choice but to agree..

 

I understand that she absolutely supports the women and she also pointed that out but that song was written way before the harvey allegations surfaced. It has nothing to do with what Harvey did. It's just a song. Besides what's the difference? Heroin refers to the Manson Family murders w/ the blood on the walls and even namedropping him in the opening line,jonestown massacre in the original UV video/freak video, the pedo (lolita) theme, violence references in her songs? why censoring Cola? by that logic she should censor the rest songs too.

i think it's because it's not an abstract theme you can "comfortably" quote rn? manson and jonestown were specific events that happened decades ago and are used often as reference in general culture, like dropping a bar like "she eat your heart out like Jeffrey Dahmer"  in a pop song. And pedofelia is a dark theme, but she uses a renowned classic novel to draw the imagery not a recent case? 

I think like in 5/10 years it's going to be the same for Weinstein, his name won't be just *His* but it's going to be a label for that kind of behaviour and people will name drop him too as the hollywood mogul executive who preyed on women but rn because of him a lot of people are coming out about their experience, and not just women: men and (former) child stars. So it's delicate because it involves people and eventual new voices. 

And I agree about the suggestive interview, altho it could have been planned in advance? I don't know if they still do that but the girl interviewing her was really cognisant about lana's body of work and they both seemed comfortable, maybe they reviewed the points they were going to talk about before to give structure to the interview. The Harvey thing is super delicate as I said previously, so I don't think Lana would talk about it without working on her statement before hand. 

She has a secret. She doesn't want to talk about it. Well, not now. Maybe one day. It's ok.

What did you notice, sleuth? 

she reminds me of my mom,  not in a good way: she always has her phone in her hands while she's on the wheel it drives me insane because i worry  

okay i admit that these last three episodes i've been mainly hate watching, i genuinely believe every character is so very dumb and it's annoying me    i have a problem with ryan murphy as a writer or whomever pens these concepts, i thought that maybe i should have more of a sense of humour watching this so i can get closure on it and appreciate the actors a bit more. 

lena dunham is so grating, i can't stand her and hearing her voice but at least if she's out there with her irritating self then anyone should be confident enough to make it 

i actually  have so many issues but i'm extra and there's not enough time, i'll check brooklyn nine nine to relieve myself from the tension 

I'm so mad she wants to "retire" Cola... She should just change the name from Harvey to something else like Javi   

i mean we should let some time pass at least, to respect the victims. Maybe in 5 years or so she'll reclaim the song and change the lyrics like "And I was in the sky with [...] making me crazy" which still works. If a lot of fans ask for it it could be possible, but for the moment it's better to take it off 

i'm glad now that cola doesn't have a mv, it would have been a mess