Vertimus

That part is in-CRED-ible. The best part of the three songs for me.

That is absolutely true. We know she can't say anything, or do almost anything, without being attacked. We can't even discuss, honestly and responsibly, some of what she's said without being attacked here. We know verbal communication is not her strongpoint, unless she's really comfortable with herself at the moment, in control, and comfortable with the person interviewing her, like Courtney Love. Symbolic and relative 'radio silence' is best for her at this point, at least for the time being, and until the media finds another 'perfect,' seemingly 'unwoke' punching bag (sadly enough). She doesn't see to be enjoying stardom anymore--"but I'm not a star!"--it's a full-time job for those who really want it above all else, and above their artistry (if any)--and many artists have left "the star-making machinery" behind, including Joni Mitchell, Nico, Laura Nyro, Prince and Axl Rose. In a few years, it could be Tyler Joseph, Justin Bieber or Beyonce that wants to live privately or reclusively. Stardom means having to endlessly live up to some sort of public ideal and having 0 privacy--among others unpleasant issues, like stalkers and break-ins.

The Ignore User function is your friend, believe me. It gives you back power and control over your experience here.

There's been plenty of bullying here, loads, in fact, since I've been a member. Really nasty attacks. I don't know if there was in this particular case--some said there was--but I'm saying that the moderators should not allow or tolerate any. Members should be banned for bullying or attempted bullying. Thankfully, we can all use the Ignore function to block those who do. My Ignore list is as long as my arm.

No bullying should ever be allowed here.

Grenadine isn't even spelled correctly.

If the revenge is against her mother and, to a lesser degree, her father, it does.

Can we assume that Sean is/was a racist? That seems like a huge leap. Why would he be attending a BLM rally with her if he was? Also, look at the way she refers to Old Man River, as if it's a cafe, restaurant or bar, and, indeed, there is an Old Man River bar in Los Angeles. So they were, in the song, at a BLM protest near or outside of the Old Man River bar. Obviously, due to the history of the words 'Old Man River,' we know there's a double meaning to them being used. On the contrary, I think she and Sean were happy in that moment, perhaps also with other friends, and she wishes she could also have been with her father, or that he could have joined them, because she was proud of herself and Sean, and at that moment, Sean saw who she was in a positive way. But they've since broken up, as the song makes clear, and so 'old man river keeps rolling, with or without him,' meaning Sean, and, as a father figure, by extension, her father.

You are too kind. Many thanks.

I do think both TB and WW do represent an 'advance' in her songwriting and artistry, just as 'HIADT' and 'Yosemite' did. They really show more of what she's capable of. And, additionally, TB and WW are more like her poetry than HIADT, at least to me. It's as if she attempted to meld her poems to actual melodies and music, instead of using 'atmospheric' background music. And she really succeeded. BB, is, for me, more like HIADT--it's a creative success, but not necessarily something I want on repeat. Now, whether Stans, fans or critics want an album of WWs and TBs is another matter, or whether Stans want to see her continue in this inward-turning, 'private mythology' direction. Clearly, many of us love these new songs, and, more importantly, relate to them. Many musicans in the recent past and relatively distant past have done the same thing over time---Nico, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, Laura Nyro, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, Jeff Buckley, Twenty One Pilots and many more. They more or less leave their main or initial fanbase behind. Some, like Rayland Baxter, go the opposite route--from deep, touching and meaningful songs to pure 'sell out' fluff.

I think 'Serene Queen,' cut from LFL as we know, had a vibe that was both 'futuristic'/techno-ish and 'witchy.' It's one of my favorite leaked tracks.

Thanks, GLF. Since it was produced by Mike Dean, I was thinking it might have been recorded once with Jack for COCC, and then a second, perhaps slightly different, version was recorded with Mike. Time will tell. Maybe 'dealing' or 'the deal' is a motif of the album.

Thanks. If so, then the 'Dealer' title makes perfect sense. She's dealing out the deep tea at last to someone she loves.

So: do we think 'WW' is a revamped or renamed 'Dealer'? Of course, she stresses the word 'deal' four times, and she did say, last year or in late 2019, that, to paraphrase, she 'did a lot of screaming' on 'Dealer,' and WW does end with that very powerful screeching. I'd more than happy if it is 'Dealer' with a new title. I do think it would have fit very well on COCC, a nice balance to 'WD' and 'Yosemite.'

Don't forget she's said she's writing one, in the process of doing so. Tori Amos badly derailed her career by her 7-year commitment to her own theatrical piece, 'The Light Princess,' which in the end turned out to be a creative and commercial flop.I hope LDR doesn't slide down that rabbit hole. Edit: Sorry. I see someone posted the same point.

I agree. There's absolutely nothing, wrong with honest, even hard, criticism. Cultish 'IT'S LANA FOR GOD'S SAKE!' feeling (it can't be called thinking), does no one any good, including the artist. I've seen it with so many musicians, from Bob Dylan, Tori Amos and Jeff Buckley to Twenty-One Pilots and beyond.

Well, I disagree. Some of the intonations are very close to hers. It's so distorted I don't think anyone can really say.

To me, 'Under My Skin' does sound like LDR and the words are sung the way she often does. Full release/leak, please.

Perhaps--perhaps--the 'revenge' was meant to be directed against her parents? TB and WW present a fairly bad, if very likely honest, portrayal of her parents within certain limited contexts. I'm still wondering 'if the issue of her' refers to her mother, thus presenting a tight Electra-complex scenario--"I'm in love with my father and hate my competition for him, my mother.' It's possible. Or it could just be another woman the police boyfriend and father-stand in was interested in and became a wedge between them. Tori Amos has written, in 'Bliss' especially a very graphic and direct attack on her father or 'father image,' father archetype. It's full of incest references. She says, "he wants into mine" and refers to his "supernova juice." As a song, it went right over the heads of 99% of her Stans. Releasing it seems to have freed her from her father complex and rage against 'the patriarchy.' Father I killed my monkey I let it out to taste the sweet of spring Wonder if I will wander out Test my tether to see if I'm still free from you Steady as it comes right down to you I've said it all So maybe we're a bliss of another kind I said A bliss of another kind I said Lately I'm in to circuitry What it means to be Made of you but not enough of you And I wonder if you can bilocate Is that what I taste Your supernova juice? You know it's true I'm a part of you Steady as it comes right down to you I've said it all So maybe we're a bliss of another kind I said Steady as it comes right down to you I've said it all So maybe you're a four horse engine with a power drive I said A hot kachina who wants into mine I said Take it, take it with your terra- terra- terracide And I said steady as it comes right down to you I've said it all So maybe we're a bliss of another kind I said A bliss of another kind I said A bliss of another kind I said

Stardust = Joni Mitchell reference (‘Woodstock’)

The name drops are terrible. We've had enough with Sean, Joni, Joan, Stevie, Cortney, and now Jenny and Nicki Lane. It's a little embarrassing and each new one dilutes all the others.

Trust me, I've been made aware of that. I also like WW best, but TB is a close second; WW has the better climax. I also find BB not quite all there lyrically. I hear people here saying they're crying or sobbing listening to it, which surprises me somewhat.

I agree. The songs may come out on threes, or in some other untraditional manner. Why not? So: are the marks on her chest, the grey spots, sores or whatever they are, are they there on purpose? As symbolic scars or wounds? In the 70s, the Alan Parsons Project released an album called 'Eve' which two attractive women on the cover, dressed up and wearing veils, but if you look closely, you see they're scarred.

We know she's into Lynch due to the 'Y&B' video which was a takeoff on his 'Blue Velvet.' And he's said "she's interesting,' but that was the LDR of BTD/P, not the LDR to come. I am too, don't take it to heart. I love 'Paradise' and most of 'Lust for Life,' and COCC is my favorite of all her work. I don't rate UV, HM or most of NFR highly.

Thanks—I hadn’t considered that.