Lana discusses the Guardian controversy, Frances Bean, & Barrie in Aftonbladet interview

[Rafael 3,510]

And that's just BTD. I could go on all day with her other albums and unreleased material.

please do. we could use a thread 

[veniceglitch 375]

I think mortality is actually the absolute driving force behind her art. 

And she definitely is all about 'le petite mort' — the orgasm as 'little death.'

 

Fear, threats, fetishism, denial — all attempts to control Death, by either running from it, aestheticizing it, or by gaining the illusion of power by agreeing to surrender to the ultimate unknown. 

 

[Wilde_child 490]

Those are characteristics of a romantic mind. Lana's Art is very romantic.

 

I think mortality is actually the absolute driving force behind her art.

And she definitely is all about 'le petite mort' — the orgasm as 'little death.'

 

Fear, threats, fetishism, denial — all attempts to control Death, by either running from it, aestheticizing it, or by gaining the illusion of power by agreeing to surrender to the ultimate unknown.

 

 

[Stardust 35]

I find it amusing that you say "Born to Die" is the only song about death in this paragraph and then discuss "Dark Paradise" (which is even more about death) in the next.

Let's review, shall we?

Born to Die - Duh, obvious. Also, she dies in the video.

Blue Jeans - Not explicit, but suggestive of a dead or incarcerated lover ("They took you away, stole you out of my life"). She drowns in the video.

Video Games - "Only worth living if somebody is loving you".

National Anthem - "Overdosing, dying". A$AP Rocky as JFK is assassinated in the video.

Dark Paradise - The whole song is about her dead lover and wishing to be reunited with him through death.

Radio - "I've been raised from the dead", "I swore I'd chase them 'til I was dead".

Carmen - "I'm dyin', I'm dyin'", French spoken part translates as "You could not live without me, I will die without you, And I will kill for you".

Million Dollar Man - Possible death reference in "Holding me tight in our final hour".

Summertime Sadness - "I know if I go I'll die happy tonight". Video is about suicide.

This Is What Makes Us Girls - "Teachers said we'd never make it out alive", "something that we'd die for".

Without You - "Your love is deadly".

And that's just BTD. I could go on all day with her other albums and unreleased material.

Mortality is the one absolute common to the human condition, so it's pretty understandable for it to influence and be referenced frequently in an artists work, even if it isn't the dominant theme of her art. As I stated, there are suggestive undertones and these undertones clearly highlight to me that, as a person, she is clearly struck by the notion of death, but the main motif of her music is love and love lost: just because (for example) she sings 'your love is deadly' doesn't make 'Without You' about death. This is the difference I'm trying to distinguish.

 

To be fair I'd retract my statement about BTD being the only song relating directly to death. I would agree that 'Dark Paradise' is also about death (although you could argue it was a breakup, artistic interpretation and all that) b ut more than that it's about undying love and the grief you feel when you lose a loved one. All I meant with that comment was that she isn't singing about wanting to actually die, she's singing about the hardship of having a loved one die (or leave) and the period you go through afterward, unable to move on & finding comfort in the fantasy of the person. So the lyric 'I wish I was dead' is, like I said, hyperbole to communicate the extent of the grief. I don't think she's glamorising death.

 

Similarly, with BTD.. This was the first song of Lana's I heard, and I dunno if it's just me, but the message I got from that song was one of seizing the day, enjoying and experiencing your life (and love) whilst you can - 'feet don't fail me now, take me to the finish line, oh my heart it breaks every step that they take' / 'don't make me sad. Don't make me cry... Keep making me laugh' / 'take a walk on the wild side' - because although everyone is 'born to die' it pains her to get older, and closer to death or the 'finish line,' which stands in stark contrast to romanticising death.

 

For me at least, the bulk of the lyrics you pulled out from each of the other songs don't pertain to the actual meanings of the songs as a whole. The use of the words relating to death: 'I'd die without you,' 'only worth living if somebody is loving you' etc. are figurative, imagery used as a means of expressing herself & as an allusion to something else, for the most part, the extent of love shehas for her man. Mortality is a recurring allusion but not to the extent that love (or even fame, power/submission, or nostalgia) is a motif through all of her work: she isn't, generally, singing about death. That's why I wouldn't call it a dominant theme.

[slang 1,509]

Well I don't know, death is kind of a big deal, so why not write about it if one wants to? The point about her glamorizing it or it being about herself would be irrelevant if everybody had the mindset that no matter what she says on the topic, the choice will always be yours to interpret her songs as fiction or character studies. Also didn't somebody ask her about "Die Young" tattoo, and didn't she come up with some kind of politically correct answer for it?

http://popdirt.com/lana-del-rey-on-die-young-tattoo-lizzy-grant-name-change/112217/

@@evilentity:
"And that's just BTD. I could go on all day with her other albums and unreleased material."

Her leaks and unreleased don't seem saturated with self-death imagery to me. Other death imagery (aka tragedy) maybe, but that is not a controversial thing in art. In LDRAKALG there's "Jump", which is probably the most explicit on suicide, but it's just one song, and I still think it has a right to exist as a song. I mean isn't Hollywood's Dead a great song on the topic of death emphasizing tragedy over glamor?

[radiodasirius 637]

I am so confused. Are Barrie and Lana together or not?

[evilentity 13,303]

That's why I wouldn't call it a dominant theme.

Her leaks and unreleased don't seem saturated with self-death imagery to me. Other death imagery (aka tragedy) maybe

I mean isn't Hollywood's Dead a great song on the topic of death emphasizing tragedy over glamor?

A few weeks ago I had a really long response written to these posts, but my computer crashed and then I forgot to come back to this. The short version is that while it's maybe not the dominant theme (although I think there's enough evidence that one could argue that it is, though I'm not sure I necessarily would), it's definitely a very dominant theme in her work, to an extent that's atypical, and therefore notable and naturally provokes these sorts of questions. Many of her songs actually are literally about death, but even when she's not singing about death and singing about other things, she's still preoccupied with death, constantly reaching for death metaphors. To @@slang, I was speaking about death imagery generally, but there actually is a lot of self-death (i.e. suicide) references in her work too. And I read "Hollywood's Dead" completely differently. If anything it's the urtext of Lana's glamorization of death!

 

But don't just take my word on the prevalence of the theme of death in Lana's music. Listen to Jon Pareles, whose NYT profile Lana praised glowingly, in this podcast beginning around 7:20.

[Trash Magic 26,799]

I find it amusing that you say "Born to Die" is the only song about death in this paragraph and then discuss "Dark Paradise" (which is even more about death) in the next.

 

Let's review, shall we?

 

Born to Die - Duh, obvious. Also, she dies in the video.

Blue Jeans - Not explicit, but suggestive of a dead or incarcerated lover ("They took you away, stole you out of my life"). She drowns in the video.

Video Games - "Only worth living if somebody is loving you".

National Anthem - "Overdosing, dying". A$AP Rocky as JFK is assassinated in the video.

Dark Paradise - The whole song is about her dead lover and wishing to be reunited with him through death.

Radio - "I've been raised from the dead", "I swore I'd chase them 'til I was dead".

Carmen - "I'm dyin', I'm dyin'", French spoken part translates as "You could not live without me, I will die without you, And I will kill for you".

Million Dollar Man - Possible death reference in "Holding me tight in our final hour".

Summertime Sadness - "I know if I go I'll die happy tonight". Video is about suicide.

This Is What Makes Us Girls - "Teachers said we'd never make it out alive", "something that we'd die for".

Without You - "Your love is deadly".

 

And that's just BTD. I could go on all day with her other albums and unreleased material.

I've, personally, never understood the whole idea that it's a fact that Lana always sings about death, the striked ones, imo, are stretches.

I think in her official releases there is no over-stauration of death whatsoever, I think that misconception really stems from stupid ass responses in interviews like the Guardian, in which she only has herself to blame. And I think it's mainly the media creating a caricature of herself, she appears in magazines and the headings are almost always laced with synonyms of death and sadness, just check Rolling Stone too. I don't really think she's to blame entirely for that, minus the chorus of Sad Girl  I think there's more instances of it in unreleased songs, and maybe they're unreleased for a reason. And to finish, I don't think there's anything wrong with singing about it, but there is to say "I wish I was dead" so candidly in an interview.

[Coney Island King 25,022]

So what was the inspiration for your aesthetic?

 

 

Sorry but this question is just so fucking dumb, its very clear  what her inspirations are. You may as we ll ask her why she wears flowers on her head.

[evilentity 13,303]

the striked ones, imo, are stretches

even when she's not singing about death and singing about other things, she's still preoccupied with death, constantly reaching for death metaphors

Also, how is A$AP Rocky as JFK being assassinated a stretch?

 

And I don't think their scattered inclusion in this list really captures the impression she created by the fact that someone dies in almost all her BTD-era videos. I mean, it was becoming a cliché and a joke within the fanbase.

 

And I think it's mainly the media creating a caricature of herself, she appears in magazines and the headings are almost always laced with synonyms of death

Nah, it's not just that. She's talked about death in interviews frequently for a long time. Sometimes as a result of being asked about it, but often brought up by herself or in response to generic questions like what is X song about.

[Trash Magic 26,799]

Also, how is A$AP Rocky as JFK being assassinated a stretch?

 

And I don't think their scattered inclusion in this list really captures the impression created by the fact that someone dies in almost all her BTD-era videos. I mean, it becoming a cliché and a joke within the fanbase.

just because the video is recreations of true events, it's not like Lana wrote the treatment. I think the one thing that Lana says which is actually pretty accurate is how she is always talking about honouring love lost, and I just think she more often than not chooses to bring that to life in the form of death

[evilentity 13,303]

just because the video is recreations of true events, it's not like Lana wrote the treatment.

Sure, but what about the choice to recreate the death of a glamorous mythologized figure like JFK who died young?

 

I think the one thing that Lana says which is actually pretty accurate is how she is always talking about honouring love lost, and I just think she more often than not chooses to bring that to life in the form of death

Sure, but I don't think it's really a stretch to read something into her choice to represent that with death.

[Trash Magic 26,799]

It's her artistic license, I don't have a problem with it, I can see how others could get annoyed with it but for me the imagery of stars and stripes is more tiring than dying in her videos 

 

at least she's switched it up

 

Death by fire - Born To Die

Death by performance - SNL

Death by drowning - Blue Jeans

Death by jumping - Summertime Sadness

Death by assassination - National Anthem

[Viva 3,168]

I never thought of Born To Die as an actual death of a person. By the song and video my understanding is that the love between the characters, in the case Lana and tattoo dude I forgot the name, is the one who is Born to Die. The love itself is born to die, as a metaphor for what will happen if the love remains. Some love's are born to die.

[longtimeman 8,067]

She uses death in her songs in a particular, romantic way. It's not as though her videos are full of scenes of genocide - most of the time death is seen as a barrier to love, which can sometimes be overcome (Dark Paradise) and sometimes defeats you (Blue Jeans). I'd argue that the deliberately movie like quality of so many of her clips, particularly Summertime Sadness, mean that they're not showing death, they're showing a dream world where death doesn't have any repercussions. Her jumping off the bridge isn't going to end with her in a bloody heap at the bottom, but with her waking up.

 

The problem is that pop music is seen as music for children, and one of the jobs that the media has given themselves is to protect children from the idea of death and suicide. But they're hot button issues, which excite and scare people (and sell) so if you can put those words on the front page of your newspaper or magazine, while taking the 'moral stand' of condemning anybody who seems to be 'promoting' them, you get the double win. Protect the children, scare the parents, and use the name of a celebrity to sell the story - the holy trinity of publication, and Lana fits in perfectly.

[Viva 3,168]

She uses death in her songs in a particular, romantic way. It's not as though her videos are full of scenes of genocide - most of the time death is seen as a barrier to love, which can sometimes be overcome (Dark Paradise) and sometimes defeats you (Blue Jeans). I'd argue that the deliberately movie like quality of so many of her clips, particularly Summertime Sadness, mean that they're not showing death, they're showing a dream world where death doesn't have any repercussions. Her jumping off the bridge isn't going to end with her in a bloody heap at the bottom, but with her waking up.

 

The problem is that pop music is seen as music for children, and one of the jobs that the media has given themselves is to protect children from the idea of death and suicide. But they're hot button issues, which excite and scare people (and sell) so if you can put those words on the front page of your newspaper or magazine, while taking the 'moral stand' of condemning anybody who seems to be 'promoting' them, you get the double win. Protect the children, scare the parents, and use the name of a celebrity to sell the story - the holy trinity of publication, and Lana fits in perfectly.

 

 I don't think is the theme of the songs that made her, somewhat, a paria (outcast) in US but the media or the way the media portray Lana's songs. After the gigantic 2011/2012 backlash I think Lana decided to use the media as much as they used her. IMO many times she is the one laughing at the interviewers, not the other way around. Her tours are sold out, her album is selling really well with basically no promo. Who's in command? 

 

[slang 1,509]

A few weeks ago I had a really long response written to these posts, but my computer crashed and then I forgot to come back to this. The short version is that while it's maybe not the dominant theme (although I think there's enough evidence that one could argue that it is, though I'm not sure I necessarily would), it's definitely a very dominant theme in her work, to an extent that's atypical, and therefore notable and naturally provokes these sorts of questions. Many of her songs actually are literally about death, but even when she's not singing about death and singing about other things, she's still preoccupied with death, constantly reaching for death metaphors. To @@slang, I was speaking about death imagery generally, but there actually is a lot of self-death (i.e. suicide) references in her work too. And I read "Hollywood's Dead" completely differently. If anything it's the urtext of Lana's glamorization of death!

 

But don't just take my word on the prevalence of the theme of death in Lana's music. Listen to Jon Pareles, whose NYT profile Lana praised glowingly, in this podcast beginning around 7:20.

Hollywood's Dead may depend on subjective factors for interpretation. So, for instance, how does one takes the phrase "sickeningly beautiful"? I.E. you were beautiful and now it's sickening that you are gone is how I take it. I would tend to give her the benefit of the doubt that she's sad and not attracted in any morbid sense to the death of such amazing talent (and Lennon didn't even die by his own hand, and I think he's referenced in the song).

 

One interesting case is Pinup Galore. I mean she sings "I wanta die, I wanta die...", but the context of the rest of the song (that lyric following the "Disco Ball Mind" and the "I have become someone") would seem to suggest one could spin other interpretations (such as being about self-actualization, or becoming a different better person). I would not call the song depressive in character.

 

I mean death is on her mind, for sure, but I don't think she overdoes it.