Vertimus

ABSOLUTELY! You learn from life and your own actions. As young people, most of us learn by trial and error, as in, "Oh, calling that guy in my math class a hick wasn't such a good idea, as others brow-beated me, moved away from me, and then he really dressed me down in the hallway in front of everyone." Live and learn. It's a long process that only gets tighter and more difficult until we find some success in ourselves as individuals, and Lana has been documenting for the world her own experience of this, which now continues in depth on OC.

Thank you. I have great feeling for so many of you here, and appreciate your intelligence and varying opinions and all your other gifts. We all see things from different points of the spectrum, and that's what leads to healthy and vigorous understanding of one another and of Lana's music. As I've said, the best example of this for me was when someone mentioned how they thought 'Old Money' was song by a relatively youthful person, and that forced me to read and reread the lyrics and see how that conclusion was possible, and I realized it was, that 'the kids were young and pretty' might have been young women and men, not children, the children of the narrator, as I had assumed. I had always assumed the narrator was a mature women in her 50s or greater, and I still think that, but I see now see how it is possible to interpret it another way completely. And now 'A&W' opens up another pandora's box of multiple ways of interpreting the lyrics and their meaning. And it seems "Fingertips' does as well. My best to you.

Yup.

Perhaps, living in Europe, you did not grow up in a free speech society, as we used to have here and hopefully will again. If Nazis wanted to march, they were able to advertise the event and then do it. But that didn't mean another group wouldn't show up and protest loudly or even become violent, and the would-be Nazis would have to accept the consequences of their actions and idealogy, which might mean arrest, loss of a job, a broken jaw, or worse. Look at Annie Mac and her form of 'limited free speech,' which is smothering and oppressive. I say, 'Let Annie talk' and let us loudly reject and mock her, but not attempt to silence her or anyone else. She used a number of tactics to attempt to shut down Lana before, and may do so again. But Lana is visionary artist loved all over the globe, while Mac is probably a miserable individual who can only see the glass half-empty at best. "Lana's freedom oppresses me!" That's nonsense.

Some people seem to have heard 'Taco Truck,' but I don't know where or how. Or maybe they're just seeking attention.

I like you, let's not fight or have bad feelings towards one another.

Absolutely. Well said. I was going to mention Kim Gordan too, her comments from her biography about Lana--"OH! We can't go back to that, women pining away for men!", as if that still doesn't happen, as if Lana never experienced it herself, as if men don't pine for women or other men in the same way. We all, hopefully, know what it is to experience strong physical and emotional attraction to another human being. That's simple biology, I agree that every situation is nuanced, Carl Jung wrote about that, how everything taking place the whole world over may have taken place before in some shape or fashion, but not in the specific, exact way it is currently taking place. So there is no doctrinaire, automatic, one-size-fits-all solution to any of the world's problems. Jung also said, "The great problems of the world are never solved," by which I assume he meant war, famine, disease, strife, aging, oppression, etc. Certainly, we can and do attempt to solve them, as a human people, but we're not God or God-like beings, and oppressive ideologies that crush individualism are not the answer. That's why I think 'A&W' may upset a lot of her career-long critics, it's even more of what they hate about her--and let's face it, for some, they hate her and nothing will change that, nothing Lana can do or say. She should disregard them entirely, though of course that's much more easily said than done.

Yes, it's an uphill climb, as in the following: "Climb out of the belly of the beast" she said "Become a witness out of the abyss The temple of the soul will have to heal the flesh Only when you're whole can you forgive But it's a long long climb It's a long long climb."

Awful. She's a doctrinaire Marxist. There's only one way to think about any particular subject, whether it's feminism, race, the environment, gender identity, etc., and if you don't conform, it's off to the Gulag with you, where you will never be heard from again. Who the **** is she to tell Lana or any other person what they must think, perceive, feel? I am a free speech advocate. But that doesn't mean I am protected from negative responses to my free speech. I can get socked in the jaw for insulting someone, or someone can 'dress me down' by practicing their own free speech. As in all things you have to be self-responsible.

I agree! And while that might not be a happy process, it is probably one that will eventually free her, as genuine, by-the-book psychoanalysis purports to do. So so far, I cannot agree ethat what i've heard on OB comes from a 'happy' or 'positive' place or state of mind, even though these struggles and revelations may, in themselves, be 'positive' steps.

Yes, it makes sense. You said once here that, to paraphrase, 'peace of mind' and 'mental health' are not necessarily continually forward moving processes, and you were right about that. That's why, I think, we can never accurately judge what her genuine state of mind is at any point, because we're basing our judgment not on broad hard knowledge, but on new releases and interviews that often conceal more than they reveal. I think we don't know a lot more than we do know about her.

if you want to know what exploring darkness is, listen to the 4 Velvet Underground albums, especially the first 3, listen to Nico's solo albums from the 70s and 80s, listen to Leonard Cohen's 'Songs of Love & Hate,' or anything by Marianne Faithfull after 1978. I think darkness is the province of the artist, who doesn't find in mainstream society what it purports to offer and consist of. Lana, as Lana Del Rey, explored the darkness right from the beginning with the BTD title track and 'Blue Jeans.' And then onto 'Cola,' 'Gods & Monsters,' and a lot of UV. Then 'The Blackest Day,' 'Swan Song,' 'Salvatore,' and 'Heroin' and 'The Greatest.' And in so many of her unreleased tracks. And now with 'A&W' and some of the other tracks we've heard. It's not always a 'Cherry Blossom' world, where one can hide away, as in Kate Bush's masterful 'Under the Ivy,' which I think 'Cherry Blossom' bookends. Yeah, literally collapses around her, which seems to go over the heads of the casual listener.

That's all beautifully expressed. I wish I heard and 'saw' that in the title track, which remains flat for me, like a dead fish, but I do like, at least, 'The Grants' and 'Sweet,' though, as I said yesterday, 'Fingertips' is still not jelling with me. I look forward to the balance of the album. I also cannot relate to a lot of UV, and 'BB' and 'Old Money' are also my favorites from the album. Speaking of maturity, as we have been today, I think both of those songs really reflect maturity, but was it only artist reflecting maturity, and not the individual? As if they can be separated! Was 'Old Money' a glimpse of a maturity still to come? 'Old Money' is my all-time favorite of her songs. Regarding the 'Sad Girl' lyrics, it's interesting that everywhere the lyrics appears on the internet, it's as 'I'm a Sad Girl, I'm Sad Girl, I'm a Sad Girl,' when that is clearly not what she actually says. You quoted the lyrics correctly.

Right, full agree. Maybe this process started with 'Yosemite,' the poetry album, and 'Hope,' and then 'Textbook' and 'WFWF.' She's exhaling her childhood and youthful experiences, and then moving towards her 20s and 30s. It's like a psychoanalytical process where the doctor often sits well off to the side in near-silence and the 'patient,' lying or sitting, free associates, rambles, and feels safe and comfortable enough, eventually, after many sessions, to really confront themselves, their actions, and the things that happened to them, as well as the actions they've taken, which they may regret (or see as freeing). Everything they've repressed to be able to get on with day-to-day life. I think some people want Lana to be happy, and I think we all do here. But she's a human being like all of us, and one who was abused in various ways. She seemed happy on the COCC title track, and on other recent songs like 'VFR.' But the five songs I've heard do not seem like they're coming from a 'happy' or serene place, though there's beauty in them, of course, as there is in almost all LDR's music.

If you mean the title track, I can only say I wish it did for me.

Let me just say that just because a person has matured, it doesn't mean you're happy, or that you've really matured, and not just chronologically matured. Look at all the sad old and older people in the world. There's a brilliant older filmmaker who is almost 90 and who claims he hasn't learned a damn thing in adulthood and is no more happy or unhappy at almost 90 than he ever was.

You mean all women are sacrosanct, and can't be described except in broadly culturally-accepted, very positive terms? That's the way Annie Mac thinks. Is this the 1950s all over again, where we must always keep our comments polite in the High WASP manner, so that they become essentially useless and rote, like, "You look lovely today, ________?" Look at Madonna in 2023 and what she's done to herself; are any honest publicly-made comments about her appearance from the neck up to be condemned, and the commentator banished? Nico acknowledged she was "destroying herself" in mid-1970s interviews, and naturally some people were aghast at the change, and said so. To me, she remained beautiful right up until her 49th year, when she died, but years of neglect and addiction showed on her face. And Lana has written a lot about drug-taking; is that subject also off the table, because to some people's it's "unpleasant"? She's calling herself an 'American whore" in a new song--she's doing that herself--should we not discuss what that means, or could mean, or might mean, or whether it's a freeing thing for her to say or some kind of sad acknowledgement of a fact? I come out of the punk tradition, that is, the Velvet Underground, the Patti Smith Group, the Sex Pistols, the Voidoids, Nico's solo career, the Clash, etc. So I don't make 'nice nice' about anything, or commit my life to preserving that tradition, which I see as false and oppressive, though I understand good manners and conscientiousness.

I agree 100%. These sociological and political matters are part-and-parcel of a lot of Lana's recent music. I think they should be allowed to continue under this topic as long as they remained tied to the current album, her music or lyrics in some manner.

'Born To Die' gets no love, and it greatly deserves it, in my opinion. To me, it's one of the essential Lana songs, as it came early in her 'Lana Del Rey' career and outlines and delineates her entire perspective on life and love, at least as it was up to, perhaps, LFL, and perhaps beyond to the present.

It's one of my Top 5 Lana songs.

Did anyone ever really care about Annie Mac or did she just unfortunately have a high profile job for awhile? I live in liberal NYC, bastion of PC-ism, and I've never heard anyone mention her or her fascist opinions.

But some people will perceive those actions as an attempt at a smokescreen to hide what they perceive as her real values and beliefs. She does come from a part of upstate New York where almost everyone is a Democrat. But what is a Democrat exactly, what is a Republican? Are both parties 'all alike'? It's like saying all 'Hispanic people' are almost completely alike, whether they were born in Puerto Rico or whether they were born in a small town in Brazil.

I agree. Personally, I don't get the impression that she follows politics too closely, which is the right choice for some people.