Vertimus

The way this list was put together is the same way they and other outlets do their '10 Best Movies of All Time' lists, which are absurdly tilted towards the 21st century, as if the brilliant era of world cinema that was the 20th century barely existed. They'll list 'Gone Girl,' 'Avatar,' 'Parasite,' 'The Grand Budapest Hotel,' 'Moonlight,' 'Persepolis,' 'Call Me By Your Name,' 'The Social Network,' and 'Get Out,' and then throw in 'Citizen Kane' from the 20th century and that's it, which shows they know nothing about cinema and have no taste either.

The truth is that of course such lists are completely subjective, and RS is always biased in a great number of ways, including creating lists that are purposefully provocative. In terms of 'influence,' they have Prince before Frank Sinatra, which is absurd. Sinatra and Elvis Presley were two of the most influential individuals and vocalists of the 20th century, on a global basis, but unfortunately they were white, which matters in 2022-2023, and so have to be pushed further back. And look where they have Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey. Ridiculous.

Sorry. I was trusting what someone else said, like an idiot. I read through the top 40 last night, but was so unimpressed with RS's usual bullshit that I stopped there.

The BB album is brilliant, to me, a watermark in her career. I do wish there were 4 or 5 other new songs on it rather than the older leaked tracks, but as it was released, I still love it and still haven't tired of it. It's definitely my most-played LDR album.

When Tori started to get older, it was Tori herself that said that she started hearing rumblings from the record companies about her then-present-day image, which wasn't 'sex kittenish' enough, not stereotypically 'sexy pop female' enough. I agree she, as Tori Amos, never sold herself as a 'sex kitten,' except on her first record, Y Can't Tori Read, when she certainly did present herself in a tight teddy, holding a whip, her hair blown out in 'Big 80s' style, and wearing a lot of makeup. But Y Can't Tori Read was a band, though Amos was listed in the credits as 'Tori Amos.' Then came her highly influential solo career. And, as I said, she started writing songs about this standard that female artists were held to, male artists were not, and she was right. From the song 'Curtain Call': "By the time you're twenty five, they will say You've gone and blown it By the time you're thirty five, I must confide You will have, blown them up Right on queue, just act surprised, when they invite you to take a curtain call" From the song '16 Shades of Blue': "You say get over it if 50 is the new black, hooray this could be your lucky day But my cables they are surging almost overloading as you disengage" I do think 'From the Choir Girl Hotel' is a brilliant title, but I don't care for that album at all, except for the extremely sad 'Playboy Mommy,' and the sadly cut-at-the-last-minute B-sides, 'Cooling,' 'Bachelorette,' and 'Purple People,' all of which were better, IMO, than everything else on that album. 'Cooling' is my all-time favorite song by Amos and also one of my all-time favorite songs, period.

Yeah, as usual with that dinosaur publication, which hasn't been influential since the mid-1970s, the list was pretty much shit, and, as usual with their 'best of' lists, engineered to outrage and flummox. That's the only way they can get anyone, anywhere, to pay attention to them. I'm glad she made the list, but, Lana makes it and Joni Mitchell does not? Etc. Etc. Etc.

She was just beginning to Peter out as Lana was rising. Though she’s still around, touring, and releasing albums, I think Lana helped eclipse her. I still have great respect for Tori and hope she continues to write, record, and tour, but her endless, stridently-expressed political opinions wore me out over a period of 12 years or so. And LDR has, in her own music, many more subjects and themes in her work than Tori, which I appreciate.

I think LDR could do a much better version of The Good Life than the one leaked.

I agree so much. I've played the three new leaks about 100 times each, but OB about 15. It just doesn't speak to me, and I hope it doesn't reflect the new record. I am glad so many like it though.

Full agree.

I think a lot of people may be disappointed if expectations are too high, regardless of what BOZ and HMs have said. I hope for the best, but since I don't care for the single, I'm staying cautious.

It's one of my Top 3.

I'm glad to hear that. I generally acknowledge my own intuition and not get my hopes up too much. Generally, I also like 80% or more of her releases.

Will all you love the new album regardless of how it actually sounds? It seems almost everyone has prepped themselves for that inevitability.

I do not care for it overall. I like VB, MAC, TG, and, to a lesser degree, CG and Hope, which I do recognize is brilliantly written. ‘Doin’ Time’ I really don’t count, since it thrown on at the last minute to boost sales. I think Lana has done much much better. I don’t know why CG sounds so muffled and ill-produced. I would like it a lot more if the production was clearer. I do like the outro and thunder sounds, but wish the production on the outro, like the rest of the song, was also better produced.

I have had the same experience though, for example with ‘Arcadia,’ not liking it at all then eventually loving it, though that was a period of a year, not 6-8. In fact, it’s taken me a little time to warm to a number of Lana’s songs—then there’s others, like ‘Old Money,’ ‘13 Beaches,’ and ‘Dragon Slayer’ that I loved the first time I heard them. It’s a mysterious process.

Well, I have Mars and Saturn in Capricorn…..

Exactly. And there hasn’t been one LDR album so far that hasn’t had a track I don’t care for. I like LFL the album a lot, but it has at least 3 songs I dislike and never play. COCC has 1, BB has 2 (1 is the interlude), HM has 1, UV has 2 (not including the bonus tracks), Paradise has 1, BTD has 2-3 and NFR has the most at 6. So what a masterpiece is is different from individual to individual, though obviously there are ‘public consensuses’ among critics as to what constitutes ‘art worth keeping and preserving over time.’

Paradise, COCC, and BB — and after that—LFL!

It’s equally wrong to love an album no one has heard yet as to hate an album no one has heard yet. We can dream, we can hope…

But ‘Top 3’ is completely subjective. Here on LB NFR! is thought by the majority to be either Lana’s best or in her Top 3, but I don’t think that, and we know for a fact that I am not the only one here who feels that way. Most love UV and HM, but they’re not among my Top 3 Lana albums. Someone could say, “well, that’s just you, you have BAD Taste’’ but we know that’s really not accurate either, though easy to say.

Well said. Tori Amos has written both songs and chapters of books about this topic, especially as regards the music industry, and was doing so 20 years ago when she was approaching 40. The ‘hey, you’re not selling yourself to the public as a ‘sex kitten’ anymore,’ and then having her labels essentially find a reason to drop her contract or their option.

Aging has been sorely misrepresented by so many since the 1960s. Before then and the hippy/flower children, people looked forward to maturing, growing, and evolving and taking their place in society.

I agree. Or sometimes a new style or vision just doesn’t work, or their muse seems to utterly leave them—which of course can happen regardless of gender or gender identity.