Vertimus

If Lana is thinking about a return to any of her pre-NFR! sound after Lasso, I'm for it. I did appreciate the more uptempo songs on OB--I still feel Taco Truck was a missed opportunity--and BBS from BB. Rick Nowels did some amazing work with her. I prefer his work with her to JA's overall. And if she's feeling up to some pure pop, terrific. There's nothing wrong with lightening up a bit. I was just listening to Making Out yesterday and it's still powerful, fun, and amazing. I love the Hollywood sound too.

Thank you. I love American, so that's a plus for me. I hope we all hear it before too long.

What do we know about Paradise 2015? Does it have any relation at all to the earlier song Paradise, the one that goes "take you down to paradise..."? Thanks. NEVER MIND: Got It.

That's exactly how I feel and why it's my most-played and favorite of Lana's albums. There's a pure serenity to a lot of the newer tracks. And unlike on OB, where several of the tracks seem half-baked, repetitive (TJF and Fishtail, for example), or fractured, on BB the songs seem whole and fleshed out. To me. I haven't tired of listening to it yet, not since its release.

It's one of her most beautiful, peaceful, serene songs and also shows strength.

I agree, and I like her for the same reason, among other reasons. If she were going to play the industry game, she would have been churning out copies of BTD ever since, or using that template repeatedly. UV was obviously a big break with BTS/P, and I don't think she's ever looked back. She said her mother called her a chameleon soul. And we know Lana Del Rey is a stage name and persona, like Nico, Melanie, or Madonna. Who knows if we've ever heard the true, authentic voice of Elizabeth Grant, or if Elizabeth Grant wants to share that voice with the public. She's a Cancer, she's super-guarded and self-protecting. As I see it, all of that frees her to do whatever she wants musically, whenever she wants. I can't think of any other musical artist who has jumped genres or given a middle finger to the idea of consistency the way Lana has. Maybe only Linda Ronstadt that I can think of, but Linda was/is largely an interpreter of other people's songs.

I think she just does whatever she feels like and it's not more complicated than that. She probably doesn't need the money--depending on how she's spent or saved her millions--and she's not interested in chart-topping or competing with Taylor. She's already an artist's artist and on her way to becoming a music industry legend based on the effectiveness of her songwriting and the number of great songs she's composed. I find it funny that anyone would find her post-NFR! career boring, as, for me, it's NFR! that's boring, except for a few tracks, though I do think OB is a complete mixed bag, a real smorgasbord, and definitely not her best.

Very well expressed. I agree.

We should all also keep in mind that Rolling Stone magazine voted Joni Mitchell Old Lady of the Year in the mid-70s (because of her real or perceived romantic attachments with Graham Nash, Jackson Brown, David Crosby, James Taylor, John Guerin, and others) after which she refused to deal with them for 4 years, and they dumped all over the brilliant if eccentric The Hissing of Summer Lawns at the same time, her follow-up to Court & Spark. No doubt she would always be remembered for her never-bettered series of albums from Songs to a Seagull through Mingus and/or Shadows & Light, but she tried to turn into a Pop artist in the 80s (after briefly retiring), which failed creatively on a grand scale and, to my mind, was a stain of her former creative record. The last thing people wanted was Joni Mitchell dueting with Billy Idol. It was an embarrassment. It was only in the 90s, when her albums continued to tank and grow dark and ambiguous, that a movement was begun by several female artists (including Anne and Nancy Wilson of Heart) to make Mitchell into the untouchable, irreproachable legend she is regarded as today. In the 90s, the worse Mitchell's albums got, the more other artists and critics praised them. Mitchell wrote two songs specifically about all of this in the 70s, about the entire madness of the music industry and the praise/hate cycle, Lesson in Survival and Judgment of the Moon & Stars, both from For the Roses. Lana, today, and for the last 12 years, has been living a similar cycle of madness, envy, and media abuse, of "I Insult You Because I Can,' the We Like You We Hate You, Your Daddy Bought You A Career, You're An Industry Puppet, Your Feminist Politics Are All Wrong, We Wish You Were Already Dead Too, You Can't Sing Live Your 'Talent' Is Just Studio Production, etc. As Tori Amos sings, "It's a long, long climb."

I felt and feel the same way. Once she lost BAMP and AA, I knew she would lose everything else. The way the Grammy judges probably see it, when Lana is old and grey and needs to sit, like Joni Mitchell, then they'll give Lana her revolving chair, bad lighting, and an excruciatingly over-the-top introduction like Mitchell received last night.

I also think Taylor was being sincere. But I wouldn't call either a legacy artist. In what sense is Taylor a legacy artist at this point in her life and career? Poor Lana was clearly of two minds about joining her on the stage. What I would have liked to have seen is Taylor say, "Thanks to you, Academy and judges, and thanks to everyone who helped me achieve this and record the album, but this award should have gone to this individual right here, Lana Del Rey."

I think a lot of what is liked and voted for by the judges is liked conceptually rather than musically. As in, 'Wow, boygenius, a super-group of assertive Indie women who are presently obscure, banding together and taking a clever gender-twisting name--and one or two might be lesbian or bi-!! I want to appear as if I'm hip to that." In the distant past, I remember Beck and the Scottish band Teenage Fanclub being given the same sort of attention and love, though no one had heard of either at the time--except Yoko Ono! Extroverts very quickly learn on which bandwagon to jump. And Teenage Fanclub's album was called Bangwagonesque to make it all the more ironic. Everyone keep in mind Edina in AbFab running around the award show floor with Bubble, desperately saying, "What's the buzz, the buzz, what's the buzz? What's new and different?"

Thanks and cheers to Elle and the moderators for all their good work last night.

I don't think they know who she is. Even here in NYC, where I've lived for some time, I know 6 people who know who Lana is. She's not Taylor, who is talked and written about everywhere every day and discussed on cable news shows as a phenomenon, the way Madonna once was. Lana's demure quality walls her off from them amongst the lights, noise, bling, hype, bells, and whistles that is Hollywood. And the judges have tin ears. From Charles Bauldelaire’s The Dog and the Scent Bottle: “Ah, miserable dog, if I had offered you a package of excrement you would have sniffed it with delight and perhaps gobbled it up. In this you resemble the public, which should never be offered delicate perfumes that infuriate them, but only carefully selected garbage.”

I agree. There are too many categories; they want to recognize everyone and everything under the sun, which is more virtue signally on a grand scale that bores everyone and seems absurd. "Best Mastering, Cajun Album." Please. There's no reason the Grammys have to be global in reach, even if they chose to recognize artists from all parts of the planet. They should condense it to 16 easily understood categories, period. All this 'Songwriter Song of the Year' vs. 'Song of the Year' is bullshit. But the problem of favoritism, popularity, or commerce ---the Taylor juggernaut--or "we've voted for too many White artists already," or "we've voted for too many male Black artists, we've got to change something" is more bullshit. Votes should be cast blind, and the music should be considered on an Art for Art's Sake basis. None of the judges should know the results until they hear them during the presentation.

And let's not forget a key line from OB: "I know, I know that you hate me." Lana is Cinderella and will win in the end. She's already winning artistically--do we hear artists and legends like Joan Baez and Bruce Springsteen, like Stevie Nicks, the Weeknd, and Courtney Love praising Taylor, Billie, et al? These artists didn't praise Lana when it was convenient and advantageous to do so, in front of a massive industry audience, but from their homes, from the studio, from the road. I'm very happy Taylor praised Lana but calling her a "legacy artist" or whatever she said exactly makes Lana sound like she's been performing as Lana Del Rey for 30 years instead of 12. Lana isn't even 40 yet. She's not Dolly Parton or Joni Mitchell. She and Taylor are only 4 years apart in age.

Lana needs to re-connect with some ‘negative’ female archetypes like the Erinyes, the Gorgons, and the harpies, the Lana of ‘Live or Die’ and ‘Velvet Crowbar,’ and kick some music industry ass. We know she has it in her; she’s “run with the wolves.” I think the industry simply does not respect her for the reason I said above. She’s a lady, she belongs to another, earlier era of civility—and they “take her kindness for weakness.” and they’re envious of her for a dozen reasons. It’s a bit of a perfect storm.

Lana is like that nice person, male or female, in class or in the office, who is too nice and has an good heart and gets stepped on by all the sharks and overlooked when it’s time to give out the promotions.

So sad, setting her up with 5 nominations just to let her down hard. Was it intentional? As far as I’m concerned, the industry and media still hates her because she’s everything they’re not. God bless Taylor for bringing her on stage and RECOGNIZING HER.

No. He had his era, and it was long. He wrote some amazing songs before he became really popular (I.e., sold out) and started marrying models.

All they do is pat one another on the back, the whole industry, just like the Oscars. It’s as if they have no sense of self or inner security. Desperate, desperate for awards and attention.

It’s inexcusable.

I loathe all the political crap being spilled here—I believe 100% in Art for Art’s Sake.

It’s politics and career ass-sucking.

So much bullshit PC talk. It’s really grating.