Monicker

 

 

This is fascinating to me. I've wondered for a long time about the connection between music and math. Not having much formal training in music, I don't really get why I like what I like; I just know I like it. I checked out some math rock once. Bought a Don Caballero CD. Was really excited. I put it in and immediately thought, "Wow, I love this sound!" About halfway through the song, I thought, "Wow, this is boring, I never want to listen to this again!" (And I haven't since.)

 

I love music that is experimental-but-not-too-experimental. That's why I love Lana's music. (And Lizzy's even more.) I don't know if I would have been as captivated by "Blue Jeans" if she wasn't so beautiful to look at, but I do know it was mainly her haunting physical voice and bold-yet-vulnerable stylistic "voice" that reeled me in.

 

I feel so torn about my relationship with beauty. I never felt like I had a lot of physical beauty, so that made it easy for me to go along with my Protestant heritage that tended to regard beauty as shallow at best. But in recent years, hearing other perspectives, notably Catholic ones, has made me re-evaluate my approach to beauty, and now I see it as something to be "stewarded," if that makes any sense. (Christianese for "taken good care of and used well.") So it was within that new framework that I encountered Lana. She's basically the first music artist whose physical beauty I've allowed myself to appreciate as part of the entire experience since I was a (hormone-crazed) teenager. (Went through an extended "it's all about the music" phase. Probably wouldn't recognize a lot of my favorite bands' members if I passed them on the street.)

 

Now I guess I'm on this kick where I try to see "the true, the good, and the beautiful" in everyone. And appreciate the fact that different people place different emphases on different values, but that doesn't make them "wrong" as I used to think. (Charm and beauty can be misused, but so can truth and humanitarian values.) We need people who sort of specialize in these different areas, I think. We need to give each other the freedom to pursue these different values, while we pursue our own favorite (without completely dropping the others).

 

I think Lana "stewards" her physical beauty in good ways. But there's no way it's all she has going for her.

 

 

Always an interesting perspective from you, PrettyBaby I find the stuff you said about your relationship with beauty to be really interesting. Also, i really agree with the idea of giving people some breathing room so to speak, and allowing each to embrace what they embrace, to value what they value, for is that not what sets cultures apart from each other and what makes the human experience so diverse?

This is all off-topic at this point, but so be it...

Music, essentially, is math. Though, of course, it’s so much more than that. But if you wanted to examine it from its fundamental core and a theoretical stance, it’s strictly math. It's no wonder that in ancient Greece, music, math, and philosophy were considered inseparable and, really, part of the same larger field of study. The magic and transcendence of just being pure math comes from that ineffable, unique quality that results from the creative combination and ordering of sounds, that which moves people emotionally. It's near impossible to determine why exactly you like something and dislike something else, and therein lies a lot of music's power.

"Math Rock" is kind of a misnomer and a bit of a silly term, i think. Why is it that playing in “odd” time signatures and shifting quickly between different time signatures is considered mathematical as opposed to music that stays in 4/4 the whole time? It’s like “Emo”--what music isn’t emotional? Instead of singling out a style of music for its heightened emotion, maybe there should be another term for denoting the few exceptions where emotion is deliberately avoided. Anyway, i digress from the digression.

I simultaneously believe that all music is experimental and that no music is experimental. It’s all experimental because isn’t that what anyone is doing when they sit down to write music--trying out ideas to see how they work? Some hired gun who comes on board to compose a song for Britney Spears--isn’t that person experimenting with different ways to construct something within a desired mold with a set goal, just as much as, say, Krzysztof Penderecki is experimenting when he sits down to write a crazy symphony with his own compositional goals in mind? They just have different functions and end points. But, on the other hand, isn’t everyone also following some general guide and pre-established framework when writing music? Experimental as a term to define music i think is hokey anyway, it’s more often than not (as is the case with Math Rock), more about having a certain sound and style than it is a general approach to constructing music. The great 20th century French composer Varese once said, “I do not write experimental music. My experimenting is done before I make the music. Afterwards, it is the listener who must experiment.” I love that quote. As you may imagine, the consensus considers his music to be wildly “experimental.”

Actually, I've thought this about a lot of her professionally produced videos-- that the treatment for the music video should go with a different song in her catalog.

I'm not sure i'd like that because i often find her videos to be a little too literal. Even the homemade ones, she'll often find a clip that corresponds literally to what she's singing about in that very moment. My personal preference would be for her to lay off a little with that sort of thing, though it's not that big of a deal, just a minor complaint.

Anyway, i'm glad this surfaced, but the internet being what it is, i have to wonder if this is real or fake.

Imagine we were all together at...

You know, i’ve thought before about how funny/weird/surreal/awkward/absurd it would be for all of us to be together in a room somewhere, like a huge ornate ballroom, and everyone is just standing around and we’re all looking at each other and we’re all hearing each others’ voices for the first time and realizing that no one sounds as you had imagined them sounding, one person, it turns out, is a she and not a he, someone else is way younger or older than you had assumed, someone is inevitably nothing like their online persona, and there are like five people you want to have sex with. I would definitely show up for the Halloween gig in my BDSM mask and every time i opened my mouth i’d ramble in ten minute blocks. Just imagine the scenario and all the stuff that would go down: Riley would be MCing the event with his reydio voice, evilentity would be handing out our English assignments, Madrigal would be going around yelling at us that our dates are all wrong, HDB would be going around liking everyone’s comments, SitarHero would finally get the chance to sport his Jimmy Gnecco shirt, showing it off like a drag queen, Lily would spearhead a mutiny, TPD would show us the contents of her big manilla envelope containing classified documents and photos related to Elizabeth W. Grant, PrettyBaby would act as the great arbiter and peacekeeper, Neal would deny that he’s FBI agent Dale Cooper, ednafrau would be begging the house band to do a Jeff Buckley cover, Hunter would be plugging his own music, Moy would be digging a bigger hole for himself after making poor analogies to try to prove that cultural appropriation is okay, Lemon Pie would just be sitting deliciously on a table, deathray would no doubt be crossing his arms, James Dean would be badgering us all for the Million Dollar Man video, Matt would tell us all how Carmen is the best song in existence and how his Biology homework sucks, European would unyieldingly protect his origins, Crystal Castles would be going on and on about Crystal Castles, Hellion would be late to the party and show up with Blanche sass, Luda would be asking everyone why they hate him, Baby V Alex would be brandishing large picket signs with pictures of nude gay men on them, Chloe would be telling us how leaks are wrong and how we should just listen to Ben Mawson while Ben would point out to her how many leaks have, in fact, come directly from him, all the while running away from an angry mob, the Auto-Tuned Loon would be an ASSHOLE shitting all over the place and making horrid sounds (that would cause HDB to swoon), and Maru would literally be flipping over every god damn table at this event while pontificating about the superiority of cats.

Oh wait, then PinupGirls would crash the party announcing how awesome black people are, frankee would be in the corner doing a painfully tragic dance to a Madonna song, futilely attempting to get everyone to watch, the bearded man from Blue Velvet would wow us all with his exquisite facial mane, Emile Haynie would try to add a Born To Die filter to the whole party, Calendar Girl would make her great return and enlighten us with tales of all the adventures she embarked on during her long absence, Ahmed would phone in from prison, and Lana Del Rey herself would tell us all to go fuck off. If i missed anyone, sorry ‘bout it.

Dude...what the hell happened to Elizabeth's lyrical skills? She was so good and it seems after she peaked she just went gradually downhill, but in such a short amount of time. Why did the quality of her writing drop so much? ¿Que paso con esta chica, coño?

No way. It's just ultra ultra compressed. It sounds like it's a 112kbps mp3. This is not "old sounding," just terrible mp3 quality. Why are so many of her videos like this, i wonder. What a disservice to her work.

I get it geometrically and architecturally and in nature, but not so much with facial construction and music. I guess it's just because it can be applied to different aspects of music. Like, i think it has more to do with just the sequence of the notes in a melodic line and their intervalic relationships, because sometimes it applies to the overall structure of a piece, but i don't really know.

Love you guys, really. This is why i asked the question--i really wanted to hear from all of you. Good stuff.

Personally, I think the music would be different if she wasn't this beautiful girl. She wouldn't be singing about being the most exotic flower or the whole world's girl. And that's fine. It's certainly a perspective she has and is used to (although I would never say she's limited to being the hot girl). For instance, I'm not writing about being an exotic flower because I don't have that perspective.

I like this point a lot. Good stuff, Sitar.

i always thought that if thom yorke had been conventionally good-looking, radiohead would have never attained the level of reverence they did.

Ha, this makes me think of what Buzz Osbourne of The Melvins (who was close friends with Kurt Cobain and Nirvana in their very early days) has continually said throughout the years, that he thinks a lot of Nirvana's success was due to how they were pretty boys (albeit in grungy clothing).

you might be interested in its application to music?

 

For sure. There's a ton of great stuff that is based on the golden ratio. Bartok, Webern, and Messiaen immediately come to mind, some of my very favorite composers. Though, honestly, i don't really understand the GR.

 

 

It’s interesting not only to consider whether or not she’d be as successful, but also where the success would be coming from and how it could have shifted to other demographics. She’s a pop star, mentioned in the same breath as people like Lady Gaga, a product of contemporary popular culture. That would’ve most likely shaped up very differently had she not been as attractive. But there are also musical considerations to take into account that would have greatly affected her audience, i think: imagine that after AKA she had put out a record of the BTD demos rather than the album versions. We'd probably be looking at a very different fan base. This all deals directly with the butterfly effect, of course.

 

One last thing i wanted to make clear that i should have initially: Her beauty (style is maybe a different story) is in no way part of what makes me a fan of hers. As i’m sure most of you know, and i’ve stated several times before, i’m a music person at the end of the day, plain and simple. It was entirely music-related stuff that reeled me in and has kept me around. Sure, the videos, the glamour, and her style contribute some to the fascination, but i don’t think there’s any way i’d think any less of her or like her any less if i had never seen Video Games or the early videos, considering that with artists who are new to me, i usually first listen to a song a number of times without viewing the video before finally watching the video.

Can i just categorically say that Lana Del Rey is conventionally attractive? I mean, i think she is, but what makes a person conventionally attractive? Symmetry? Certain features being accentuated while others appear subtler? Vibrancy? The appearance of being healthy? A certain sense of style? Whatever the secret formula may be, it’s pretty clear that the good majority of her fans find her to be incredibly attractive. What prompted the train of thought that lead to making this thread was a further realization of how often comments and praise about her are centered on her (good) looks. Inevitably, that lead me to wonder how things would have turned out if she were less attractive--whether it was slightly so or a significant amount (however in the hell that may be measured). What if she was completely ordinary looking? Or what if she was rather homely? Would she be as adored? Would she have as many admirers? Would the makeup of her fanbase look very different? There are no ways to answer these questions, of course, but i just wanted to welcome some thoughts on this topic because i’m curious what others think. I, personally, tend to think that she wouldn’t be as successful, at least within certain strata of her fans, simply because, as i mentioned above, how much of the commentary regarding her is focused on her looks. What do you all think? When responding, maybe keep in mind the significant, crucial role that youth, beauty, and sexual capital play in being a successful woman in our society, and particularly in the entertainment industry.

I, too, have a war in my mind. I don’t know how i feel about the video. I feel a little numb, but these feelings, or lack thereof, have little to do with the actual video and Lana as an artist and what she’s created, and more to do with how i feel about life in general lately (i think watching Samsara last night really fucked me up even more than i have already been feeling). I think i like the Ride video? But i should watch it more at a later time when i'm not feeling this way.

What i do have concrete thoughts on: Watching this, i realize how American i am and how inescapable it is. I really love things that are truly American. All of the imagery throughout the video is great--so classic, so iconic, so familiar but so vibrant and fresh. You know, if there was ever going to be something that hipsters latched onto and made them finally come around to Lana, it’s this video, as repugnant as that thought may be. I love the actors that were chosen and the authenticity they bring to the video. News flash for some of you: those guys are probably a lot more desirable to some women than you care to think. Man, i would KILL to be unit photographer on this set! The cinematography is great (though, in my opinion, still doesn’t top the BJ cinematography). The whole thing could have been a little rawer, but, still, this feels like real, early ’70s first wave of American independent cinema. My only problem in this regard is how fast the editing is--i HATE what has become the standard pacing of editing.

Re: the headdress: I cringed very hard during those shots. Not sure what she’s aiming for there. Why is that there? However, she wouldn’t be Lana Del Rey if there wasn’t something problematic about her, and i like that about her. It's interesting to see the image of a gun being held up to a Native headdress, that's for sure. What’s funny is that for some people (those who just don’t “get it”), it takes blatant mocking of a culture or explicitly stated disdain to consider something offensive/insensitive/careless toward a culture, and these scenes, it seems, would actually fit their narrow view of insensitivity, because they actually do seem to be mocking of Native cultures (acting “crazy” in the desert with alcohol and guns!) However, on the other hand, from my subjective standpoint, i myself as the viewer am also able to take away a completely different interpretation of whatever Native metaphor may be embedded in there, and that is freedom. Which is what the whole video is about, right? Now, that’s obviously not a very common association to draw from Native Americans, but think about pre-Colonial America--is that not absolutely representative of freedom if there ever was such a thing? (i.e. a more fundamental freedom rather than a bogus, empty concept of freedom, i.e. McFreedom). Still, though, this feels fucking uncomfortable. Surprise, surprise, it's Lana Del Rey.

Oh, one last thing: i don’t understand why the audio quality in all her videos is so poor. This seriously sounds like it’s 240p. I really hate the internet, it is the great destroyer of everything. Can you imagine after all the time, effort, energy, money, talent, and skill that went into the engineering and production of the song, and the production of the video, that this compressed-to-death video on youtube is what comes out? Oy. Hopeless times for art.

The Lucky Ones hyperbole is pretty ridiculous. Can someone explain why that song, of all songs, gets so much shit? I really don't get it.

Lana & her sister "Chuck". Picture from the RIDE video.

http://pbs.twimg.com...AhMDC.jpg:large

Uh oh, one of those bikers is black. We're in a parallel universe, you guis.

Maybe a yellow star 2 represent how society has made her an outcast? (Really would like to see someone try 2 defend that tbh)

I was just thinking about Lana dancing in the desert with a Star of David armband.

EDIT: Wow, weird, we all picked up on that at the same time.

What's it gonna be, fashionable genocide or austere genocide?

...among the "HURRY UP PINUPGIRLS" posts...

He really went from being completely in the shit house to saving the day within a matter of hours! He got, like, a million "likes" on the OP with the download links (because he demanded that everyone "like" it) and i think he felt speshul after that, after buying back some face.

I can't imagine what the fuck PinupGirls would think if he ever came here and discovered how much we still talk about this.

Gosh, we are pretty ruthless here, huh? Nah, probably not.

As long as it comes with some avacados.

It all comes with avocados, HDB.

OH MY GOD. I CAN'T.

IF THERE WAS EVER ANY QUESTION ABOUT THIS SURPASSING PINUPGIRLS, IT'S GONE NOW.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Come on, he's clearly putting us on. This can't be real. Maybe Moy will delete his account and come back an hour later?

Ah, good times back when I was a carnie. (And no I don't have small hands or smell like cabbage.)

WHAT? You were a CARNIE?? This is amazing.

WAIT. Is that Chuck? No, she can't be that much of an asshole.

Maybe in the near future, when Lana releases something country-exclusive, Moy can come to the rescue and make a fake iTunes for that country and buy the songs for us all.

OH MAN. So good.

Hey, do you think that in this same parallel universe Ahmed is still looking for his microphone to host Reydio? ...

Thanks guys, i'll be here all week. You should really try the fish, i hear it's good, i'm friends with the cook, so.

I think that in some parallel universe one of the biker dudes in Ride is black, and in this parallel universe lanadelrey.fm never went down and PinupGirls is right now writing a post about how even though he loves black people, he just doesn't get why one of the bikers had to be black.

So, who wants to place bets that Lana's response, if questioned about the headdress, will be "I just thought it looked really beautiful"?

Great essay. Over double the required length. However, I'm taking points off due to the lack of pictures, the missing YouTube video, and your failure to properly explain what the tire swing is suspended from.

A-

Hey WTF, every time i went way over on essays in school (which was probably every single time because i am completely incapable of keeping things short) i got docked points for it. You gotta keep it concise and write within the limitations you've been given! FUCK THIS SHIT, PROFESSOR ENTITY. Also, why/how are you Sitar's teacher? I missed something and i need an explanation. I'm wondering if this is going to turn into a Boarding School type of situation...

And the PinupGirls Award for Most Ignorant Post Made Regarding Race/Culture in a Music Video goes to Moy! Congrats!

 

OMG haaa, this is amazing, we totally need this award, for real. Astonishingly, Moy, too, seems to be digging a larger and larger hole just as PinupGirls once did. That begs the question: Will this thread accomplish the seemingly impossible feat of topping the infamous NA video thread??

Even though i am actually more touched by that second section in the OP than the monologue itself, Ride already seems like it's going to be a million times better than National Anthem. I can’t wait to see it. Also, i'm getting vibes of Vincent Gallo’s The Brown Bunny

OMG. Can we please make it a thing where we record ourselves reading the letter? I want to hear people's voices! :3

It should be that fan letter you posted and read on LDR.FM rather than this monologue.

NO MORE FUN AND GAMES, KIDS. THESE ARE THE REAL TITLES, FIVEVER AND EVER.

GOSH Madrigal! U R such a NAZI. U alwayz take the FUN out of everything regarding copyright registration, producers, years, etc. GOSH!

This article is THE WORST, i cannot believe i actually read this shit. It is stuff like this that gives us a need for a suicide emoticon on this forum. Please? Mods? A SUICIDE EMOTICON IS IN ORDER.

or one of the beach boys christmas-y songs

I love U 4-ever, TPD. My heart is yours.

Careful saying MDM is auto-tuned. Countdown to Monicker dissertation on what is and isn't auto-tuned in 3, 2, 1...

I never said MDM wasn't Auto-Tuned, just that i don't hear it. On LDR.FM i asked people multiple times to point it out and no one ever did

It's quintessential Lana. Only she could wear a gold tooth, and I'd be like, yeah, that's just her doing her thing.

Dude, i said this exact same thing to you once and you gave me shit for it. Flip Flopper Maru.

OMG, these meters are so cute. Only Madrigal would use something like this.

I want my cake and I want you to eat me out too.

This is some of your best work yet, oh humble narrator of ours. I really like this one.

While we’re on the subject, does anyone know the origin of the saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too? It makes no sense. What else is one supposed to do with their cake if not eat it? Make it levitate by concentrating really hard? Here, have your cake, go on, take it. But don’t eat it, okay? Just sit there and look at it and think about how much you want to eat it, but i swear if you lay a finger on it... God, you always want everything. So greedy, so insatiable! I mean, look at you, you want your cake AND you want to eat it too? Who do you think you are? Ingrate!

SitarSlut, watch out, i’m going to flood your mind with SEXXX anecdotes from my life, like the one time i had sex to a Mister Rogers record (oddly enough, it wasn’t really an odd experience at all).

One time i was going down on my then-girlfriend while she was eating a piece of chocolate cake. It wasn't, like, "food play" or anything like that, she was just sitting there eating it casually and was actually a little more focused on the cake than anything else, but something about that was really erotic to me.

I'm going to change the subject now. Here's a picture of two lions fighting:

guis cum 0n 69 iz lyke a metafor n0t a misteak! lana kn0wz wutz up, iz lyke ab0ut sexxx & stuff

I agree. I think it's still really rough, but if it was finished it would be gr8.

And that right there is perhaps a big part of the reason why part of me sympathizes with any artist who has a problem with their unreleased music getting out.

this is true. i mean milli vanilli has a grammy.. lmao

Haa. But it was taken away from them, right? I think when they were EXPOSED as lip-synchers the committee was a little embarrassed and revoked that shit.