Monicker

No.

Unless she dies. Seriously.

The Grammy's used to be the LEGIT music awards that weren't necessarily based on an artist's popularity/album sales- but how good the music was. Kinda sad

Eh, i think that's more idealistic revisionism/misconception than reality. The pop music industry has always been about sales. Of course, a lot of people think that pop music used to be better and that that explains things. I'm not really convinced of that either. I think there's always been great and terrible and everything in between and that the percentages/ratios shift around from time to time.

The still used for the stereo mix YouTube video makes me wonder what auto-tuned animal noises Emile Haynie would have put on an album entitled Pet Sounds. Or imagine "Good Vibrations" with auto-tuned loon instead of an Electro-Theremin.

Ha, you are a mad man! What a terrible thought. Although Auto-Tuned Loon instead of theremin on GV is a hilarious thought. You know, Pet Sounds does end with the sound of barking dogs...

The mono mix brings back memories of when I first fell in love with pop music during my oldies phase in grade school. After I'd go to bed, I'd turn on my crappy alarm clock radio just loud enough to hear it well and just quiet enough to avoid my parents' detection. I'd listen late into the night, marking off songs I'd heard on a Top 1000 Oldies list printed on an advert in the local paper for the oldies station, checking them off one by one by the light of a flashlight hidden under my pillow. Ah, memories...

Oh my god, that is the BEST, seriously. What a great memory/thought. Especially checking off each song as you went along.

thank you for master class, monicker! it is such a luxury to have both mono and stereo versions of an album. "pet sounds" and the zombies' "odessey and oracle" are two i love, and, personally, in both i prefer the mono. if lana does this, it would be amazing, sonically and because it would introduce a new-"old" concept in audio and maybe develop a better sensibility and appreciation and attention to detail in a generation not accustomed to that

Yeah!! And as you probably know, Pet Sounds and Odessey & Oracle actually have differences in the music between the mono and stereo versions--missing overdubs and double tracked vocals on some of the stereo versions, things that were overdubbed live during mono mixdown! Because the multitracks obviously don't have those overdubs, when stereo mixes were later created, they had to be done without those parts, so it becomes even more of a unique experience when you compare the mono and stereo versions. Take, for example, You Still Believe In Me on Pet Sounds: Brian's lead vocal is double tracked on the mono because he overdubbed the second vocal during mixdown to mono, so the stereo version is a single tracked lead, and this really gives the song a very different feel, in addition to the general mono/stereo difference!

I really felt the difference now that you've pointed it out and I've paid attention to it. That was a really awesome experience! Thank you for that. I definitely felt the "train" effect that you were talking about in the mono mix, especially towards the last minute of the song. I think I'm going to make duplicate files for the songs on Paradise Edition and convert them to mono so I can listen to them next to each other like I just did with these songs. I know I'll always prefer stereo though, I'm a very attention-to-detail person in terms of music and a few other things. You're awesome!

Awesome! Blue Velvet sounds better in mono to me! I definitely also recommend doing Blue Jeans and Lolita, those both seriously rock in mono, especially the bridge of BJ, oh my god. Lolita is just ridiculous, it sounds like you're being pummeled over the head in the best way possible. And like i said before, it takes a bit of the shine off of Emile's production.

Why would you prefer that? I hate mono, it makes it seem like the song is confined by space. Is it one of those Monicker things, where my puny knowledge of audiophiles is squashed by your ever-knowing greatness?

 

TEACH ME YOUR WAYS!!!!!

HDB, check these out. I wanted to give you something more tangible rather than a rambling post.

Here’s Wouldn’t It Be Nice by The Beach Boys in mono (how it was originally mixed in 1966) and a modern stereo mix of the song.

First Stereo:

Make sure you do NOT turn the volume all the way up, leave a little room to play the mono back louder. Listen to the clarity and separation. You can pick certain instruments apart. In this mix you can actually hear that, yes, indeed, the driving force of the backing track is two accordions! Listen to how the background vocals pop out and shimmer. Listen to the bed of horns and all the percussion. You can hear different parts weaving in and out and you feel the sound sort of enveloping you from all around, like you're in a pool that's filled with the music rather than water. The song has a certain elegance in stereo.

Now Mono:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E4FRtrD9aQ

Turn the volume up slightly louder than you did the stereo mix. All of the aforementioned is gone. Everything blends. It’s like the whole song is one big well-oiled machine, all the parts indistinguishable from each other, coming together to create a whole. It’s not about the details at all (many of which are lost!) but rather the big picture. If everything before was a collection of separate sounds, this is just one big mass of a single sound, but listen to the power that it carries. It’s like a train that’s coming straight at you and it’s going to rip your head off.

Is one "better" than the other? Of course not, it comes down to personal preference. But it also doesn't have to be about one or the other. To me, they're BOTH essential, they both have their own value for totally different reasons. When i listen to the stereo mix, i marvel at the intricacies of the composition, arrangement, and production and i think, Wow, Brian Wilson was not of this earth. How the fuck did he compose, arrange, produce, and sing this? When i listen to the mono mix i just FEEL the song and it makes me want to cry.

Hmmm, i'm not sure how to respond to this. I know all these lines are blurry, i don't deny that. I don't really make any distinction between lyrical analysis (in regards to making connections to her own life) and all the internet sleuthing. But you'll notice then that i've never really participated in any discussions about her lyrics and their connections to her personal life. Let's be realistic, i don't even analyze the music. I can't think of even one single instance on this forum where i've actually analyzed music, really. Given my opinions, yes. And gotten into technical things about music production, sure. But i don't think there's been any real musical analysis.

My surprise came from hearing a familiar riff in another person's song, and as you suggested, yes, that it comes from someone with a personal connection to her certainly adds to my surprise, you're right (can't say whether it's a significant amount though). But, to me personally, it wouldn't make a difference whether that person is an ex-boyfriend, a friend, a family member, a former classmate, or the pool cleaner at the Chateau Marmont. It's just unexpected and a bit of a mindfuck. I was simply shocked to hear the exactness without having any prior knowledge of this. I think it's a lot simpler than you're making it out to be, honestly. Like, imagine you're listening to the radio one day and suddenly a song comes on and you realize that it shares the exact same riff as one of your favorite songs from an artist you really like, and then you discover that the song in question is by someone somehow connected to the artist of whom you're a fan. It's just a little "whoa" moment. And i'm curious who wrote it, which came first.

I want to make something very clear though. As i said to you the other day, i'm not at all passing judgement on anyone who takes an active interest in this sort of stuff. It's not my or anyone else's place to determine what is and isn't an appropriate interest for others to take up. I was simply explaining to you that i have little-to-no interest in this stuff myself.

Why would you prefer that? I hate mono, it makes it seem like the song is confined by space. Is it one of those Monicker things, where my puny knowledge of audiophiles is squashed by your ever-knowing greatness?

 

TEACH ME YOUR WAYS!!!!!

Well, you asked for it...

Naw, it just comes down to personal preferences like most everything else in life. I think mono and stereo each have their place and i like them both for different reasons. I'm happy that they both exist, i wouldn't want to do without either one. I am definitely not one of those people who fetishize mono. I know exactly what you mean when you say that it sounds "confined," that's true in a sense. People talk about stereo "opening up" the music and allowing it to "breathe," how it has more space. All true things. Mono is tighter, punchier, more compact. There are two main things about mono: it tends to sound really powerful, there's this great energy to it that stereo often lacks. The other thing is that it's good for creating more of a blend with the overall sound, if that's what's desired. Sure, you lose clarity and openness with mono but you make up for it with the way the music just hits you stronger. A good mono mix smacks you right in the middle of your chest and it just feels great. You usually have to turn it up louder than you would a stereo recording to get the full effect though.

Some music is more suited for mono while other music is more suited for stereo. For me personally, i like mono for music with a sparse arrangement because if there are such few instruments, why do you really need to have all that separation? A lot of stuff that’s intended to "rock" tends to sound better in mono. What's really great is when you have the luxury of having both a stereo mix and a (true) mono mix of the same song. That's REALLY fun because you can experience the same song very differently. For me, mono is more for enjoying without thinking too much about it, and stereo is more for really paying attention, studying the music and production, scrutinizing it.

Also though, i said that i would like it if those songs on Paradise were in mono because it would be unheard of for a mainstream pop artist today to release music in mono. That would totally shit on industry standards and i think that would be refreshing, funny, and cute, sincerely. I can see Lana being a badass and doing something like that.

I remember when the Blue Jeans video leaked a few days early, the audio in the video was in mono (granted, not true mono, but a "fold down") but i thought it sounded fantastic. It had so much energy to it that really suited that song, and the blending that happens naturally with mono really, really helped with the BTD production, it smoothed it out and kind of obscured a lot of the overproduced, glossy aspects. I was BLASTING that leaked video all day for those few days. I have since folded down Blue Jeans, Lolita, and a few other BTD songs and will listen to them like that from time to time when i just want to blast some of those songs and feel them in a more visceral way.

That's still true, evil. The = my surprise and amusement at the exactness of the Little Girls riff in this Saint song.

I should have said unfavorable opinions. I did not mean to suggest that i think anyone is being too negative or even negative at all. I don't. Obviously, hello, look who's talking. But, yeah, SitarHeroine is right--there's a good amount in this thread of people defending what they like.

Wait, that opening riff is on the studio version from 2008. Do we even know whose was written/recorded first?!?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MryB1A99ls

 

Lana's AKA album was released in 2010, but wasn't it shelved for a couple of years? That would put it as ready for release in 2008?

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o

So who's the better melodist, Lizzy or Jimmy? Gonna have to give it to Lizzy in this case, hands down.

By the way, the metadata on the "No Kung Fu" version of Little Girls has always been tagged as 2007. Hmm...

Anyone notice that Blue Velvet, Bel Air, and Yayo are in mono?! I think there's a better chance though of one of us getting killed by an elephant dropping from a skyscraper than these songs appearing in mono on the Paradise release (the Blue Velvet single is in stereo) but, damn, that would be great. Too bad it'll never happen.

Oh god, i've offended a madrigal.

Oh god, i've offended a piece of pie.

That is pretty remarkable--a kitty AND an avocado, wow. Paradise.

I have surprisingly feminine everything, actually. Well, except for that mass of hair on my face. :creepy:

P.S. Lily is killing this shit by a considerable margin. You should just close shop already and call it a day.

Can you please stop with the shade?

'Tis only a dumb joke, you know.

Here, have this:

I think putting some mod members against regular members that aren't as ~popular~ isn't the fairest thing.

Jeez, look at these mod clowns and their inflated egos. Oy.

Someone give these guys something to actually do already, come on.

As i suspected would happen when this thread was first started, this has turned more into any negative opinions on anything Lana related, rather than unpopular opinions.

Disagree. In context, these sound still sound funny/horrible.

 

There's a difference between wailing + sounding anguished ... and awful warbling. This particular performance of MDM in particular is just not good, imo.

 

I do agree the studio version should sound more like the live versions.

Haa. Yeah, this is my thought too. I'm really glad she didn't pinch her voice and do that whine on record. PHEW.

Of course you do. Who would you be if you didn't?

This place is probably high up there on her list of worst nightmares. She would probably have a panic attack if she lurked around here even for a few minutes.

Hai Lana! :love:

Welcum 2 hell

U guis cum on, u r bein so M34N 2 Lana, S†0P, just S†0P! let her fuckin do wut shes fuckin doin, just singin stuFF!

Yeah, i suspect that, no matter what the reasons, there is a considerable amount of practical considerations and logistics involved, the kind of stuff that doesn't even cross most fans' minds.

Anyway, someone should ask her about this. Let's bring back the what-would-you-ask-Lana-if-given-the-opportunity-to-interview-her thread!

Yeah, that too. Maybe it's a bunch of different reasons. Maybe these were the only songs that she felt translated well to piano, guitar, and string quartet. Maybe some label influence too?

Damn, this is really good.

LOVING this image.

 

 

 

OMG you are a GENIUS.

I just now got around to watching this. Her stage setup with the plants and palm trees really is brilliant, i will never tire of it. I really hope that when this gets released they do a better mix, especially turning the guitar up, as it's way too low in the mix. But i’m not complaining, it’s probably the best live recording we have of hers. Body Electric still kicks my ass to the floor. I still maintain that that song sounds like you’re gloriously passing on to the other side. She needs to NOT sing over the sublime string outro though, Jesus. Did anyone else cringe during “like a freakin’ dream i’m livin’ in”? Family Friendly Lana! Postmodern Lizzy in jeans, cut Budweiser sweartshirt, and hideous black kicks, ha! She is generally so endearingly awkward. I kind of hate that she is always saying “I love you” though. Talk about that phrase being abused and losing meaning, sheesh. But i don’t know, obviously it’s not my place to dictate when it’s okay and not okay for someone else to use it. I love that Blake plays a white hollow body Gretsch and that he sits down <3 I kind of like how anticlimactic the very end of her shows are, it’s amusing.

Like everyone else, i wish her setlists were more varied, but i have a theory as to why it’s always the same, bear with me for a minute...Perhaps they are trying to keep costs down. Think about it: someone has to be getting paid to arrange the songs for strings (i suspect Blake and especially Byron do their own parts) and then transcribe them for the players. I would think that the more songs that get added, the more this arranger needs to get paid because, well, it’s more work. Also, even though professional musicians can play this stuff in their sleep (at one point during BE the camera cuts away to the cellist’s sheet music and you can see how it’s just all whole notes, haa! These ladies are probably nodding off during these shows) she travels a lot, never staying in one place for too long, and the quartet changes as she travels, and i imagine that any new set of players need to be comfortable with getting the sheet music the day of a show and only be able to rehearse once that same day, so i’m sure that having a small number of songs makes things go smoother for everyone. I don’t know, just some speculation that might explain why she plays the same set of songs every time. Though now that i think about it more, i guess she could always spontaneously bust out a song that Byron might already know and just do it without the quartet, as she does with MDM and Carmen.

^^ Oh my God, that looks so good. I REALLY want to see that. I think i'm going to order the DVD from Ruthless Films.