Azealia Banks Not Okay With Gay Men Using the Word 'Bitch'

[naachoboy 7,993]

[Atom Heart 1,931]

Sigh. Seriously? You really want to go another round? OK...

 

What are you talking about? I don't feel "left out". (But if I did, there's plenty of offensive words for white people out there like "cracker" or "honky" or "whitey".) Also, if you're going to rely solely on identity-based arguments, you might want to note that @@VegasBaby is a woman for keeping score at home, and as such, could lay claim to a whole host of slurs. Besides, the whole reason this controversy exists is because a lot of gay people in the media and on social media are essentially making some version of this argument.

 

LOL. You're beyond self-parody. Are you even capable of making an actual argument against an idea? Y'know, one that isn't essentially, "Oh yeah? Well... you're WHITE!"

 

This is absurd. I've never called anyone either of the words we've been discussing nor wanted to. If there is anything here I'm offended by, it's the attempt by her defenders to apply a double standard, her inability to admit she was in the wrong here, and perhaps worse, trying to defend her slurs with the language of social justice.

 

What it eventually boils down to is some of her fans are butt hurt that she is problematic and that people are realizing it and they don't want to admit it.

1. Thanks for the unneeded explanation for something not even directed toward you.

2. Did I say you? No.

3. You're MUCH older than me so you should already understand that the only reason those words exist are because you guys created shit like n*gger, ch*nk, sp*c among other racially insensitive term directed to hurt minorities and if cracker, mayo or any food that resembles pale skin offends you, I feel bad for you.

[Wryta Thinkpiece 3,345]

.

[evilentity 13,351]

1. Thanks for the unneeded explanation for something not even directed toward you.

2. Did I say you? No.

Please. You were quoting another member's characterization of my argument. And were yourself characterizing everyone on the other side of the issue from you, which necessarily includes me. But whether it's about me or not, you were unfairly ascribing really odious motivations to people who disagree with you.

 

3. You're MUCH older than me so you should already understand that the only reason those words exist are because you guys created shit like n*gger, ch*nk, sp*c among other racially insensitive term directed to hurt minorities and if cracker, mayo or any food that resembles pale skin offends you, I feel bad for you.

That's worded in kind of an inflammatory way that insinuates you feel white people deserve to be called these things, but I don't really disagree with the substance, the causal relationship there. It's also not really relevant to the line of argument here:

 

cimb: X doesn't exist.

Me: X exists. Lists examples.

AH: X only exists because Y.

 

And that wasn't even one of my main arguments with what he said. Please address those if you're going to bother.

 

Also, the "MUCH older" comment is unnecessary.

[trayertrash 7,211]

Here's my two cents.

 

  As a black bi woman, Azealia has the right to reclaim derogatory terms pertaining to her race, sexuality and gender only. Can she say dyke? Yes. That term has historically used against bi and lesbian women. Can she use the n-word? Despite local race myths (I can explain if anyone actually cares) black people are the only ones that can truly be hurt by the word, so yes she has every right to use it. Can she say bitch? Yes. It has historically has been used against women during rape, abuse and shaming tactics.

 

 The whole "men are called bitch too" argument is ridiculous. The only time men are called bitches is when their manhood is being compared to womanhood, aka being compared to a woman is supposed to make them feel inferior... because they view women as being inferior. When a guy is called a pussy he doesn't get mad at the word, he gets mad at being compared to a woman... It's saying "you're not strong like a man, you're weak like a woman." To a lot of men, possessing any female characteristics is wrong, in someways their thinking is not only sexist, but homophobic. It leads to the thought of "I'm not a real man if I like this, it'll make me act girly.. it'll make me gay" which is an obvious problem in itself. I think the female perspective of the bitch that's something a lot of y'all are missing. If I threw around the word f*g all the time, a lot of you would rightfully be angry at me trying to use a word that has most likely been used against you in a hateful manor. What if someone on here was called a f*g while they were getting beat or bullied for being gay? It would be pretty "bitchy" of me to continue using the word towards and completely ignore the history they've suffered because of it. Yet most of you find it okay to constantly use a word bitch directly towards me. To me, when a man calls me a bitch, it brings me back to points of my life when I was abused, being choked, punched and spit on while being told how much of a "fucking bitch" I was for doing nothing more than speaking to a man in the wrong way. I've said this over and over again, yet people view the word bitch as a joke. Just because you haven't felt the hatred behind a word doesn't mean 

 

Back to Azealia; she has no right to say f*g because that term has historically been used as a slur against gay men. Has it been used towards other sexualities? Yes, but her being called f*g isn't comparable to the history of hatred that term has associated with gay men. I'm white and as a child I was called a "n*gglet" because my grandpa was 1/2 black, but that doesn't give me the right to use the n-word nor does it mean that I've been oppressed by that word nor will I ever feel any real social racism due to that word. As a white woman, it doesn't impact me in the same ways. Though I was called a racial slur for my racial ancestry, it in no way compares to someone calling Azealia the n-word. I would never use the terms "race card" "gender card" or "gay card" because I think in a lot of ways it's an excuse for outside ignorance and takes away from the seriousness of the issues, but, I do think that Azealia assumes that because she's oppressed in some aspects of society she's able to use oppressive terms towards other minorities, which isn't the case. If Lucy Liu called Azealia the n-word everyone would lose their shit, but I'm sure Azealia wouldn't have a problem calling her any racist terms. 

[comeintomybedroom 8,662]

The whole "men are called bitch too" argument is ridiculous. The only time men are called bitches is when their manhood is being compared to womanhood

Stop subtweeting me on this!!! I don't agree with my original statement!!

[trayertrash 7,211]

Stop subtweeting me on this!!! I don't agree with my original statement!!

 

I actually haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I would have added an @ if I had read it I was referring to people in general who say that. 

[Atom Heart 1,931]

I actually haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I would have added an @ if I had read it I was referring to people in general who say that.

He's just mocking half the statements

[evilentity 13,351]

The whole "men are called bitch too" argument is ridiculous. The only time men are called bitches is when their manhood is being compared to womanhood, aka being compared to a woman is supposed to make them feel inferior... because they view women as being inferior.

I mostly agree with your post, but I would add that I think usage of the word "bitch" may sometimes be a little more nuanced than this, and has been evolving over time, including becoming less gender specific. Men are now often called "bitch" as well, and it is often used without any gendered connotations or intent to feminize, almost like the word "asshole". Like a guy saying to another guy "You bitch!" when the other guy kills him in a video game. I highly recommend reading a surprisingly scholarly book called "Holy Sh*t: A Brief History of Swearing" that talks about this kind of fluidity of obscene language over time, including how the word "faggot" was first used as a slur against women before it evolved into a slur against gay men. Podcast with the author here (WARNING! EXTREMELY EXPLICIT LANGUAGE):

https://soundcloud.com/panoply/lexicon-valley-28-a-brief

 

It also seems to be less of a taboo to use when someone complains ("bitches") a lot, or behaves in a legitimately "bitchy" way.

[Atom Heart 1,931]

Please. You were quoting another member's characterization of my argument. And were yourself characterizing everyone on the other side of the issue from you, which necessarily includes me. But whether it's about me or not, you were unfairly ascribing really odious motivations to people who disagree with you.

 

That's worded in kind of an inflammatory way that insinuates you feel white people deserve to be called these things, but I don't really disagree with the substance, the causal relationship there. It's also not really relevant to the line of argument here:

 

cimb: X doesn't exist.

Me: X exists. Lists examples.

AH: X only exists because Y.

 

And that wasn't even one of my main arguments with what he said. Please address those if you're going to bother.

 

Also, the "MUCH older" comment is unnecessary.

Congrats, you've misinterpreted my post once again. It's a general statement based on what I've seen in my daily life and the Internet since a very young age. It's not some brand new social movement or whatever. There are people who pull the "if I can't say it, nobody can say it!!" bullshit with me in regards to slaying :)/:)/etc. If I was talking about you, you could tell by now that I would've given you some indication of that.

 

Nope, white people just need to stop wanting to say :) so bad. It's annoying and offensive and actually has historical roots unlike being compared to a raw chicken breast (which is clearly humorous). You're continuously invalidating My posts.

[trayertrash 7,211]

I mostly agree with your post, but I would add that I think usage of the word "bitch" may sometimes be a little more nuanced than this, and has been evolving over time, including becoming less gender specific. Men are now often called "bitch" as well, and it is often used without any gendered connotations or intent to feminize, almost like the word "asshole". Like a guy saying to another guy "You bitch!" when the other guy kills him in a video game. I highly recommend reading a surprisingly scholarly book called "Holy Sh*t: A Brief History of Swearing" that talks about this kind of fluidity of obscene language over time, including how the word "faggot" was first used as a slur against women before it evolved into a slur against gay men. Podcast with the author here:

https://soundcloud.com/panoply/lexicon-valley-28-a-brief

 

It also seems to be less of a taboo to use when someone complains ("bitches") a lot, or behaves in a legitimately "bitchy" way.

 

I'll listen if my internet ever decides to work properly I understand what you're saying, but the main thing with bitch is that it's so casually used in sexist ways. In gaming outside of calling someone a bitch under your circumstances, you're told to "stop playing like a bitch" if your team is loosing. It's the equivalent of "stop playing like a girl" "you shoot like a girl". The problem with your last sentence is that "bitchy" is generally referred to female emotions. If a guy is complaining and their friend says "stop acting bitchy" it generally refers to them "complaining like a woman" Even though they might be doing something annoying, referring to them as a sexist term isn't really an appropriate response. Why not say "stop being annoying" instead of "stop acting like a bitch?"  

 

I just have issues with men assuming they have the right to reclaim and redefine a sexist word against women. If white people started "reclaiming" the n-word and used it in a joking away against friends and saying things along the lines of "I'm not using it towards black people, I'm using it towards everyone, so it's not racist" it wouldn't take away the history of it nor make it any less offensive. Azealia saying f*ggot means (paraphrasing) 'any man who hates women' it doesn't take away the homophobic context of the word nor does it give her the right to use it because she feels like her definition is correct. Just because people say bitch in a non-sexist way doesn't mean it's not sexist. My father in law drops the n-word almost every minute yet swears he's not racist, but that's a whole other discussion 

[evilentity 13,351]

Congrats, you've misinterpreted my post once again. It's a general statement based on what I've seen in my daily life and the Internet since a very young age. It's not some brand new social movement or whatever. There are people who pull the "if I can't say it, nobody can say it!!" bullshit with me in regards to slaying :)/:)/etc. If I was talking about you, you could tell by now that I would've given you some indication of that.

You did give me an indication that it was talking about me. You said it in the context of quoting a characterization of my argument and then saying "That's what it eventually boils down to". You've clarified now and I take you at your word that that was not what you intended, but don't blame me for the unclarity.

 

You're continuously invalidating My posts.

Disagreement =/= invalidation.

[Atom Heart 1,931]

You did give me an indication that it was talking about me. You said it in the context of quoting a characterization of my argument and then saying "That's what it eventually boils down to". You've clarified now and I take you at your word that that was not what you intended, but don't blame me for the unclarity.

 

Disagreement =/= invalidation.

Saying a general statement about white people =/= a post directed towards you. In the context of my statement it had nothing to do with you.

[evilentity 13,351]

Saying a general statement about white people =/= a post directed towards you. In the context of my statement it had nothing to do with you.

That was not at all clear. The original context did suggest that people making the arguments I was making did so because they want to be able to use the n-word or f-word. You've clarified and I accept that's not what you intended. Hopefully you accept why it read that way and why I took exception to that. Why are we still arguing about this? Let's move on.

[vanillaiceys 222]

http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/26793/1/white-people-will-reject-claims-of-white-privilege

[VegasBaby 895]

That's what it eventually boils down to. People who feel offended because they can't use the word.

um no 

[Atom Heart 1,931]

um no

You must miss out on a lot of social media or real life, I've heard it frequently from people who couldn't grasp the racist undertones of white people using the word.

[VegasBaby 895]

I mostly agree with your post, but I would add that I think usage of the word "bitch" may sometimes be a little more nuanced than this, and has been evolving over time, including becoming less gender specific. Men are now often called "bitch" as well, and it is often used without any gendered connotations or intent to feminize, almost like the word "asshole". Like a guy saying to another guy "You bitch!" when the other guy kills him in a video game. I highly recommend reading a surprisingly scholarly book called "Holy Sh*t: A Brief History of Swearing" that talks about this kind of fluidity of obscene language over time, including how the word "faggot" was first used as a slur against women before it evolved into a slur against gay men. Podcast with the author here (WARNING! EXTREMELY EXPLICIT LANGUAGE):

https://soundcloud.com/panoply/lexicon-valley-28-a-brief

 

It also seems to be less of a taboo to use when someone complains ("bitches") a lot, or behaves in a legitimately "bitchy" way.

 its definitely meant to be degrading towards women primarily - which is why men are now using it towards each other to make a statement about how 'weak' (feminine) they're acting. 

[Chiunzhan 1,480]

she's not okay with anything

[comeintomybedroom 8,662]

Saying "binch" does not make it okay, gays. That's like using the "a vs er" argument, no it still holds the same meaning.