slang

Yeah, the lyrics are de-emphasized ever since UV when she stopped even providing them in the physical notes; however, it sort of depends on who you're comparing her too, Leonard Cohen or Ariana Grande? "I know only what the girls know, hoes with lies akin to me" was pretty shocking. Many people didn't believe she actually wrote that lyric, but she put it in her liner notes as the one representative lyric for that song. With regards to Salvatore what lines are specifically objectionable? Also you started a thread "Reasons why Honeymoon is a great album", and this thread would be good to concatenate to that one, as that's sort of what the conversation is about, at least initially.

Well sure there's subjectivity. But *an argument for something* can be based either on unsupported subjective opinion or some objective data, which can then be subjectively interpreted. In my (unpopular?) opinion, there is not enough of the latter around here. So for instance @@Flipflopfan might call out the song Million Dollar Man for being anti-feminist (?) in some sense, but without providing a sense. I mean sure she'd follow him everywhere in that song, yet you still need to argue, not just assert, that the song encourages anti-feminist attitudes, or that it's advocational rather than simply observational. And BTW if you're going to assert something like "the message is just horrible", why does LDR end the song with--"why is my heart broke?", which she sings like 4 times? I.E., you can't just cherry-pick the data.

Thanks for sharing this. I don't think you acted poorly or were treated poorly. She took your photo instead of just handing it back, which seems significant to me, also asking "How are you?" later might have been a serious question or shown some conflict in her. The more interesting issue for me is, if I were to meet her *casually* (i.e., not with a bunch of people with whom she's taking pictures), what would I say to acknowledge the fact I was meeting her as well as break the ice? You sort of chose a perfomative icebreaker, and in view of your experience, I'd say something more complimentary about her work (preferably her most recent work), and maybe something to encourage her to keep doing what she's doing. It may be implied by "dreaming to meet her", and I dream about that too, but usually end up disintegrating into a pile of white ash before saying anything. However, saying so does not give a concrete fact about why you dream to meet her. So for instance, I would mention how much I like HM and say how my 3 favorite tracks (which I'd mention by title) were some of my favorites from all of her many songs (which in my case would be a true statement). I might also mention that I have so many favorites of hers that the concept of favorite is totally fucked up with respect to her. I don't know if this would have encouraged a more interesting conversation or not, but it might have elevated her mood. However, even if the conversation went well, you still probably wouldn't have gotten a picture, because the establishment was obviously frowning on it (I'm agreeing with @@HawaiianTropic about outside forces at work). Allowing such pictures, which could be tweeted or instagrammed, might discredit the establishment from being a sanctuary for celebrities from fans (and paparazzi), and might hurt their business, but note that LDR taking a picture (or her friend taking it, whom I'm guessing was female?) would not be a case of that.

Is she as blonde as her natural hair color? Doesn't seem so.

Not really sure what the conversation is about, but it's my impression that when LDR drops names, she is often merely stating that she likes something (usually in response to questions like "who do you like?"). So for instance, she likes Jeff Buckley, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and Eminem but she doesn't try to emulate them (generally). I suppose if people automatically assumed she were citing influences she'd come off pretentious, but I don't interpret her that way. Perhaps using Ginsberg and Whitman in a music video is different, as presenting them along side her art is a statement that her art relates to those people's art, which can be assessed subjectively as either interesting or not, but the authenticity in making such a statement is a red herring. A similar argument goes for Daniel Johnson. She (with Barrie on guitar?) covered his song so her interest is authentic, even if doing so was intended to motivate people to see the film she helped fund. And maybe she knew about DJ before Barrie, but didn't really get into him until seeing how much Barrie was into him. So what? I mean, she got me into Bob Dylan, whom I certainly heard of before LDR, but for whatever reason was never motivated enough to check him out. However, her recommendation bootstrapped my interest, and the quality of what I found continued the interest. BTW, I credit Barrie for introducing me to Elliott Smith, Nick Drake, and Chelsea Wolfe. All he had to do was tweet or post on his facebook an indication that they were worth checking out, and the artists (2 out of 3 dead, alas) did the rest. However, I think the larger point is: I wasn't aware of them as artists, that I would really like, prior to his stanning for them.

I'm inferring something comparative here, like: I like HM more than the average stan because I like May Jailer more than the average stan, and this era reminds me of that (although maybe lyrically it shouldn't, idk). This is definitely true of me (which is why I liked your statement), but I'm not sure you're making a comparison or a statement that she should just go back to Sirens style. The 1949 studio leak is a good example of how she might sound, imo.

Talking SNL is kind of like a bad acid flashback, which I guess makes it Honeymoon-esque in a sense. However, putting it in perspective of whether she feels backlash or not, while she was disappointed at the SNL reception, I recall her defending her performance in terms of her liking it. Some would say that's denial; I'd say it's defiance. And for me the SNL Blue Jeans wasn't bad at all; it was odd but not bad. All the running around on stage she could have done, she actually did effectively with her voice, imo. Also SNL is not that HUGE. Taylor famously sang offkey at the Grammy's and Sam's performance at the Oscar's was not to his liking, and why should it matter that she was (relatively) unknown when sang SNL, given where she is now? Finally, I am a little worried that LDR's band are not tweeting about the upcoming festivals. Hope they are still behind her and she's practicing with them. I would prefer a lot more social media from her about that, which is not the same thing as saying I want promo, but if she did do more promo, I'd at least feel more at ease about that.

Whether she still feels a BTD backlash is possible; however, she won that war (on BTD specifically) so definitively. All the critics ended up doing was proving that they couldn't (even vaguely) forsee that the GP would be interested in her, so who looks worse now? Also the Paradise era is one of her most uninhibited periods (Cola, GQ shoot, Ride Video, and Tropico). It could be said that she didn't worry much about what people thought of her, so why would she feel a BTD backlash right now? Maybe a backlash to "I wish I were dead already" and "feminism is boring", perhaps, at least in the sense of being more careful at interviews. Her psychology is definitely interesting. Her main instagram still labels herself "Subversive", but what does that mean really? Maybe it relates to her attitude toward promo or maybe it doesn't, although I think if she did sell well, without the promo, that would be pretty subversive, imo. If she fails, which only means Interscope dumps her, she could still find a minor label and produce significant work. Or "subversive" might just mean she doesn't care what people think, but that she'll do it her way. In the case of HM she might have meant a modernized version of Frank Sinatra's "No One Cares" album. However, I'm still hoping, with everybody else, that she'll be the artist that can't stand still and keep surprising us stylistically, although she's got to do ultimately what she is comfortable doing too.

HBTB has a lot of interesting musical parts too, despite it's stripped production. I like it better than DMD, but not as much as WC, but what I like most about it is it's different from most of her released work, and my what a shocker it was right after the HM song release. Playground would have been a good B-side for the HBTB single, but of course, they don't do B-side shit anymore. Woe to us.

Not disagreeing with any of this, but for me it's always the case that the creation is the primary thing, so for me, HM would have been worth doing even without any promotion or videos. And she is in decline commercially, but I think it's sort of a "so what" for her. Perhaps she aspires something like Beck or John Mayer type status (and if she can do better than them commercially, all the better). She's talented enough to have another success like Born to Die, but she's not going to get there from promo. And while it may be that HM reflects a "comfort zone" in terms of putting out the type of music she (currently) wants to, this shouldn't imply not taking any risks on HM. I mean she risks not selling records and being unpopular for doing what she wants.

Check out the Ariana Grande unreleased song Pink Champagne, circa 2013. It could also be a reference to that as Grande uses the same rhyme (pink champagne/purple rain). Also Bruce Springsteen and The Crystal Method are doing just fine, I think.

She dresses pragmatically when she's out and about in town. She dumps her boyfriends rather than vice versa, and I would guess this would be for pragmatic reasons as well. I see her as pessimistic but certainly not depressed. She seems actually happier now as many have pointed out. She seems invited to a lot of Hollywood events and is generally seen as a cool celebrity to be around (by other A list celebrities). Maybe she doesn't promote the way you want, but the importance of that is questionable. Maybe her lyrics aren't as good as Morrissey's or P.J. Harvey's but she's not actively trying to imitate them and her lyrics are her own and not similar to other pop stars and often quite enigmatic or at least interesting. Finally, HM the album and it's 3 videos were not trivial accomplishments and she's got a respectably challenging set of festival appearances lined up. So I guess I just don't see what you're seeing in terms of a decline in her artistic or personal morale.

He has (had) about as many studio albums as Bob Dylan right now (maybe a few more), and his career was cut at 17 years shy of what Dylan's career now spans. I think he was pretty much true to funk/R&B the whole time and ended up expanding the genre quite a bit, as well as adapting to new trends. He wrote some very catchy tunes that anybody would like as well as challenging complex music, and he played, arranged, and produced his music. Are there any people like him out there today? And besides all that, he was a real character to the media and in movies. I'm not saying you should automatically love his music, but "meh" just doesn't describe him. I wish more of his straight-on jazz/funk were familiar to me, or is it even released/in print?

Prince, Keith Emerson, Glenn Frey, and David Bowie. What a sad year this has been.

April 8th was National Barrie-James O'neill day and hardly anyone noticed, meaning I'm a bit depressed critics aren't paying attention to Cold Coffee (or perhaps choosing not to notice it). Whatever. The album totally slays me. The last track "thunder" is one of the most powerful things I've ever heard in a breakup album. The first movement is very confessional and the second movement is very "I'm moving on".

People can certainly dislike DLMBM, and I applaud the fact that you actually say why you dislike it, as that's more interesting than just saying you simply dislike it. When I say that I like DLMBM, it is for purposes of presenting some balanced discussion (and also figuring out why I like it). I think the basic issue of my initial response, is that more Lana is more Lana, and I simply like that. I think she has gotten a lot better at the "media cutting" game and has arguably mostly said things she has intended to, and I think she's intelligent enough to predict the effects of what she says, which also means I view her ambiguity as intentional. Another basic issue (for me) is "artistic sandboxing", which is the idea that the artist be allowed to explore things in their art and not have it be automatically taken as advocating what's represented in the art or as a confession or personal description. I mean the artist may have intended both, but we can't immediately jump to that conclusion but are supposed to do some benefit-of-the-doubt thinking of it as art for art's sake, so I've never viewed MPG or FMWTTT as victimization songs.

In an album of 65 minutes, how can a 3 minute song be filler? I mean it's just Lana singing an extra classic song, and even if her version strikes you as bad, how can an artist experimenting/re-examining repertoire be a bad thing? You also have to come to grips with the idea that it may not be filler for her, because only that song and honeymoon song have complete lyrics in the physical liner notes. I suppose a condition of her covering the song might have been that she print the lyrics, in which case she could have printed the HM song lyrics to be symmetrical, which seems like a weak reason. I for one like the song's presence, because a) it's a great song, b) it kind of gives her carte blanche to sing anything she likes in the future (i.e., it could be construed as a manifesto song) c) her emotional reading of it (imo) is with fatalism, like she will be misunderstood no matter what she does.

To think this all started when you were just suggesting her instagrams were ineffectual and irrelevant promo, and now look how we've derailed the thread. But I can't let the comparison between HM and VG slide. You are comparing the the faster part of a ballad to the slow part of a slow song, where she's singing at Gregorian-chant pace and style! Why would you expect the lyrical complexity of the two lyric samples to be the same? However, I agree that the lyrics in BTD were more dense and more narrative, but a fairer comparison would be the VG chorus to the HM bridge. I also would have liked @@Body Electric 's response to your comparison, but man, did he have to slam HM's production so hard? I mean some people actually like it. :~) Perhaps something more thread related (but still not quite on topic, because it doesn't involve her "travels"): Does anybody else think LDR may have shaded Elvis Costello a bit in the lanadelrey instagram caption for the Ohana festival. I mean the shade would be implicit by not mentioning him (and the fact that she headlines just above him in all annoucments sort of made me feel uncomfortable, lol). He is a retro-giant in the pop literature and hugely influential, and hugely interesting, imo. So I find it surprising she didn't mention him. Maybe she's pissed that he filled her spot on David Letterman (that time she canceled), or maybe she just doesn't know about him or doesn't like him musically (either would surprise the heck out of me)?

http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/six-times-lana-del-rey-proved-shes-a-massive-gunnroses-fan I thought this was an April Fool's tweet until I saw the above article. I mean I thought GnR had disbanded. I didn't like the "Axl Rose Husband" hate in the article; it's one of my favorite songs of hers. Finally, I've always found it neat that she loved both Nirvana and GnR, and the latter two bands famously hated each other.

If we're talking about the album (not just the song or video fragment), she actually gives an answer to this question here: http://www.thecurrent.org/feature/2015/11/10/lana-del-rey-on-paranoia-father-john-misty-nina-simone-and-honeymoon <<<<<<<quote>>>>>>>>> Interviewer: Each album of yours has a distinct narrative and you're able to adopt that narrative and thread it throughout the entire album. What was your intention with the narrative of Honeymoon? LDR: I do love records that have a strong concept. The narrative for [Honeymoon], it was a tribute to Los Angeles and, because of the soundcaping — we had a lot of amazing strings — I think the mood was the narrative. It's a lot of descriptive pieces about driving at night or being in love, not being in love. Kind of the same old thing. <<<<<<<endQuote>>>>>>>>> Mood not storyline. So I don't get any unified message from HM as in a "concept album". There may be a concept inherent in the cover art that I can go along with, something like taking a tour of LDR's mind, but this doesn't imply the songs have any kind of narrative connection or commonality to each other (at least for me). Early rumors about HM songs compared them to happy Amy Winehouse. I think the comparison was interesting; however, Back to Black seems to have been about creating new "classic" songs from the Motown era; whereas, LDR's version of a retro album seemed more like a rangey set of low-key, introspective, and highly cinematic mood songs. I'm reminded of people/movies like Bernard Hermann (HM the song), Dimitri Tiomkin (Religion/GKIT?), Godfather (Salvatore), Bond (24/SwSo). Maybe not all it's songs are pigeon-holeable this way, but it's a dominant trend for me. I also happen to think DLMBM is a Sinatra-inspired cover (Frank not Nancy). Another message I get from HM is that she can write fast, and also that she likes writing fast when inspiration hits. Good for her (and us).

Isn't Tame Impala on Interscope? Beck was also on Interscope (at least for a while). So it's not the label that defines the type of artist. I mean I don't consider the label; I consider the music. Streams: all I know is spotify, where HM (the album) is at 139 million streams and UV (standard edition) is at 288 million (this is just mousing over the bars for each track and adding integer millions in my head + number of tracks / 2 millions to approximate the info I ignore). All I can say is that this seems pretty good, at least relative to people that I consider pretty good (e.g., Kimbra, Grimes, Marina, Monae). And of course one could also look at streams for Fiona, Tori, Joni, and Kate. While I agree their lyrics are better than hers, if you just put theirs and hers side by side on paper, the issue of whether or not they are better when comparing songs side by side is a complex one for me. BTW where do you get your album sales number for Honeymoon? Last I heard it was at 604k, but that was the end of January. The only way I know how to look for it is by googling this: "@chartnews WW sales: @@lanadelrey, Honeymoon" but @chartnews seems just a fan feed.

I agree that she's not a (contemporary) jazz singer, but if you were to put LDR songs in a play list with some your favorite Ella Fitzgerald songs the results would seem, IMO, more like a conversation among peers than it would with other popular singers of today (who may be more powerful or reliable at singing live, but also more robot like, imo). I also think the experimental things she does with her voice (e.g., MPG, OTTR, HM, Cola) qualifies her as jazz-like at least. But more properly, she's a slipstreamer like the people she headlines with at the festivals. And isn't it odd that she's headlining so many of them after what so many people are calling a flop album (which did relatively well in the alt-indie category)? I don't believe Instagram or social media promo are relevant to whether an artist will fade or not. They're just information/(indiscretion?) channels for an artist. The promoting via TV also seems kind of moot for me given I can see MPG at Carcassonne, Carmen at the Jazz Cafe, or Serial Killer live... on youtube, so while she's been "negligent" about TV promo, she hasn't exactly been out of touch promo wise. I'm hoping (praying to God actually) that continues for the upcoming festivals.

Perhaps, but I don't know. However, I continually wonder whether she is aware of the Paps when they photo her. For the last two stories, I would guess yes (especially the 2nd). I was also trying to contrast the kinds of stories she appears in vs. others in her celebrity category (wrt to Daily Mail stories). Don't know what it means (or whether there is really a trend), but she seems to command attention for doing mundane things more than others.

With regard to the Daily Mail's 1st piece, I think they may have been implying she was aware of the Paparazzi but elected to stay focused on her "important" phone conversation as the "news". IDK, but I would love the fact of her not being fazed by them. I also love the refererence to her "gladiator-style" sandals. With regard to the 2nd Daily Mail piece, it's odd that they track LDR so closely, when she goes out, and can brand every article of clothes she wears but not know Emile. I'm guessing it's not a question of not knowing but just not caring and/or wanting to spice up the headline and/or not wanting to waste time explaining who he is (in contrast to the clothes). The 2nd Daily Mail piece also looks staged in the sense that the two seem more aware of the paparazzi. Finally it's also interesting to compare how the Daily Mail views other pop female bigwigs, Taylor, Katy, Gaga. A quick glance of these stories usually shows them doing something publicity-stunt-worthy with their (sometimes) also famous boyfriends. Lana Del Rey goes to a convenience store for snacks, to pump gas, and talk to someone on the phone and it's (also) major news.

Are people talking about the Emile Haynie sighting (and her sweater slays imo)? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3520350/Blossoming-romance-Lana-Del-Rey-cosies-bearded-mystery-man-step-shop-Beverly-Hills.html