Cinnamon Girl versus Happiness is a Butterfly

[PARADIXO 32,925]

I cringed several times at Rorman's posts, but I'll make a contribution to this very interesting thread.

 

I found it awesome that you decided to compare these two tracks that, even though they're different, I feel like they're absolutely comparable. For instance, I wouldn't compare The Greatest to Love Song, but somehow I feel like Happiness and Cinnamon are comparable in a way.

 

Perhaps the factor that connects these two tracks is the fact that she's dealing with a problematic lover meanwhile trying to put her own happiness and peace first and foremost. On Cinnamon Girl, she's in a dilemma, deciding whether or not tell this guy about her past traumas and experiences with love. Would that avoid certain issues? Would keeping those events as secrets officially leave them in the past? Would this guy not notice that she's struggling? But most importantly, would that make her happy and stable? At the end, she couldn't resist, and the tension-inducing outro subtly reveals that this man didn't like the idea of being in a relationship with such a troubled woman. So she finds her happiness and peace through honesty; in telling the truth.

 

On Happiness Is A Butterfly, the hazy, "fresh out of fucks forever", "everything whatever" attitude from the first half of the album is long gone. The trippy synths are absent and what really matters is her voice and words. Again, she's in a battle with her own heart... she's heard this guy is a womanizer... he's troubled just like her... would it work? Would it make sense? Now she is in doubt regarding her "everything whatever" motto. She's finally realizing that simply letting things happen isn't always the way to go. One has to think, to analyze. She's comparing the joy that she gets from being with her friends at the club or singing on stage to what she feels with this guy. Is it even happiness? She wouldn't know. All she wants to do is dance with him. She's just a broken heart trying to re-write her story.

 

So, emotionally speaking, both tracks are on the same level. Now let's get into more technical stuff...

 

I myself find Cinnamon Girls lyrics beautifully written, relatable and even clever. Focusing on a macro point of view, they make absolute sense in the context of the album: naming multiple colors (since NFR! has all these references to colors, paintings, etc...), a subtle yet witty rock innuendo and, like the entire album, there's a feeling of real conversation, rather than the platonic, yearning and fantastic ones featured in her previews projects. Now, focusing solely on this track, the only flaws I find are the fact that she uses the same sentences throughout the second half of the song, only with some minimal changes that add very little to the song. The whole idea and feeling is there, it's palpable, but it would've been great if they were more articulate and complete. Of course, one with an artistic, deep-thinking mind would guess that the cinnamon in her teeth is a metaphor to the bitter and alarming taste of this relationship, and that the kerosene in her hands means danger, but still, it would be great if she expanded those ideas. Dropping the word kerosene only to follow it with "You make me mad, I'm fire again" and then repeating the pre-chorus leaves, well, cinnamon in my teeth. But still, the melody and overall feeling are there and I'm always speechless with this song.

 

Happiness Is A Butterfly, unlike Cinnamon Girl, actually tells a story and definitely lets you enter the situation she's singing about. Throughout Norman Fucking Rockwell!, she's in a more dominating mood and attitude, and this song isn't an exception. She's in control and simply asks him if he wants to be with her or not. She'll let him think, and if he decides to come, he already has her location on his phone (this is definitely one of my favorite things about the album; the incorporation of technology, social media-related lines). Another great thing about the Happiness lyrics is that they follow the story told on Bartender, so to fully understand this section of the album it is needed to comprehend these two tracks as one. Throughout every verse of this song, she's sharing an example of a happiness-seeking event only to end up telling us that it doesn't work that way. Why force yourself to feel something? ("You don't ever have to be stronger than you really are...") Happiness simply comes. Let's stop fighting, don't be a jerk, I just want to dance. I drove from the Black Rabbit in New York to Venice Beach just to see you. If I'm having a bad day I'll just let this show or this melody soothe me. Life is simplicated, we're both adults. It's actually a really nicely written tracks, and quite funny too.

 

Production-wise, I can say that I like both songs. In fact, the only production I don't like from NFR! is, obviously enough, How to Disappear. The instrumentation in Happiness Is A Butterfly is richer and more grand: beautiful piano instead of the basic (yet effective) background piano from Cinnamon Girl, the guitar adds a lot to the song and feeling and the strings are delicate and emotive, unlike those in Cinnamon, definitely much more dramatic. Both production evoke what they mean, but Happiness simply feels better and its execution is flawless. Cinnamon Girl could've been better with a better piano, less quiet vocals during the verses (they were obviously recorded for the piano-only demo of the track, just like How to Disappear, otherwise they would be stronger), less static strings and, without a doubt, real drums or a bring-the-beat-back moment in the outro, instead of the sudden and anti-climatic trap beat in the end.

 

So, to sum up, Happiness is the superior track, winning for technical details.

[Terrence Loves Me 72,645]

 HIAB is also a very good song

no song named happiness is a butterfly can ever be good

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

I tried to add a poll but it won't lemme. 

 

Also, my arguments were 100% srs and I'm very offended that people are saying I lost so you don't deserve a poll anyway. 

 

 

Can one of you add a poll please it crashes when I try @@PARADIXO @@YUNGATA @Elle

 

Just "which song is better?" with the two options.

[Terrence Loves Me 72,645]

I hope rorman is having a wonderful day today

[Cacciatore 19,347]

I like the vocals from HIAB way more, the way she sings on the second chorus is just out of the world amazing. The way she sings "we should catch it while dancing I (...) try to catch it like lightning I" is... oof  also I love the production of this song but that doesn't come as a surprise since Rick God Nowells put his finger on this one, I love you daddy!

 

Cinnamon on the other hand was one of my least favorites right after the album was released, but the song has grown on me ever since and I think the lyrics "there's things i wanna say to you but i'll just let you live" are one of the most powerful in this album  but its still not amongst my favorites like Happiness so...

 

Happiness wins.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

Also, 

 

Cinnamon

In my teeth

From your kiss

 

Everyone knows that American c*ps eat cinnamon doughnuts so this was like ... a premonition. Her mind!

 

@@movebaby didn't want to analyse the lyrics because she knew she'd LOSE if she did!

 

Violet blue green red

To keep me out

I WIN 

[Ultra Violet 18,851]

I'm sorry @@movebaby but I gotta say Cinnamon Girl.

HIAB lyrics really don't made sense to me, how she jumps from being sad about this serial killer guy and then tries to be happy. To me, the happy part sounds like a song aimed at a 8-13 year demographic that I would have loved at that age. But even the sad girl part sounds corny to me to the point where it's more immature than her unreleased demos and AKA days . The piano IS nice though. And if I had heard the instrumental before the vocals I'd be convinced it would be one of her best ballads, rivalling Old Money. Sadly it isn't even close.

 

Cinnamon Girl is also not her best work, but it is the only production on the album besides MAC that I really appreciate, and HIAB doesn't even have that over me. I really don't like the first verse of Cinnamon. I think it's one of the worst on the album, but the song does have the outro which blasts all that away and makes me want to listen to it the whole way through just for that. The "ahh ah ahAhaAhAhaHa" is also really unique for Lana so it feels like a song I'd be very happy to show someone else who doesn't know or like Lana.

[YUNGATA 14,955]

@RormanNockwell

i don't think you can add polls to already made topics. Best solution might be to make a new topic with a poll then merge this one. Optionally you can add a poll from an external site like surverymonkey or strawpoll.                                           

[naachoboy 7,993]

HIAB is factually better

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

I'm a dumb bitch and forgot to put a poll and can't edit it in, so here it is (hopefully ...).

 

You can read the very serious debate about this matter here: http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/11201-cinnamon-girl-versus-happiness-is-a-butterfly/

 

 

If one of the mods can merge, that'd be great. If not, oh well.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

@RormanNockwell

i don't think you can add polls to already made topics. Best solution might be to make a new topic with a poll then merge this one. Optionally you can add a poll from an external site like surverymonkey or strawpoll.                                           

 

Okay, thanks. I couldn't see an option to merge, so I'm assuming one of you guys has to do it?

 

Here's is the poll:

 

http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/11202-poll-cinnamon-girl-versus-happiness-is-a-butterfly/

[PARADIXO 32,925]

Okay, thanks. I couldn't see an option to merge, so I'm assuming one of you guys has to do it?

 

Here's is the poll:

 

http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/11202-poll-cinnamon-girl-versus-happiness-is-a-butterfly/

 

Done

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

Done

 

Thank you

[Off To The Races 2010 demo pls 19,335]

HIAB is extremely cheesy lyrically, but she served vocals

Cinnabald God is beautiful. A sad homosexual Anthemn

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

I cringed several times at Rorman's posts, but I'll make a contribution to this very interesting thread.

 

I found it awesome that you decided to compare these two tracks that, even though they're different, I feel like they're absolutely comparable. For instance, I wouldn't compare The Greatest to Love Song, but somehow I feel like Happiness and Cinnamon are comparable in a way.

 

Perhaps the factor that connects these two tracks is the fact that she's dealing with a problematic lover meanwhile trying to put her own happiness and peace first and foremost. On Cinnamon Girl, she's in a dilemma, deciding whether or not tell this guy about her past traumas and experiences with love. Would that avoid certain issues? Would keeping those events as secrets officially leave them in the past? Would this guy not notice that she's struggling? But most importantly, would that make her happy and stable? At the end, she couldn't resist, and the tension-inducing outro subtly reveals that this man didn't like the idea of being in a relationship with such a troubled woman. So she finds her happiness and peace through honesty; in telling the truth.

 

My interpretation is that Cinnamon is less about her and more about her lover. He's into pills and won't stop. It causes him to shut down emotionally ("keep me at arm's length", "you try to push me out", etc).

 

She has somewhat accepted the fact that he does them ("there's things I want to say to you, but I'll just let you live") but doesn't want to get hurt ("if you holding me without hurting me" etc).

 

So, she's basically saying, "okay, you're not perfect, but if you don't hurt me, then that's already an improvement over everyone else." I think he's probably very sweet ("Cinnamon in my teeth from your kiss" ... she does really like him) and that's why she's trying to make it work.

 

It's a dilemma for her. I think the "Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah" signifies that she's in love, but also frustrated.

 

In the outro, there's an audible "I can't wait" (I think that's the consensus?) and my interpretation of that is that it's like ... she can't, for whatever reason, wait for him to get his act together and get clean.

 

I agree that both songs could very well be about the same person. I'll come back and write about HIAB later.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

Okay so HIAB. He sends her mixed messages and she's confused ("do you want me or do you not?").

 

To expand upon what we discussed on the previous pages, her happiness is fleeting - it never lasts because one moment he wants her and then he doesn't. She can't hold on to it. "Every day is a lullaby" ... the days just pass by monotonously, because perhaps she can only see her lover in the evenings (which ties in with Bartender).

 

So this dude has a bit of a reputation (the "serial killer" part). She's like, "fuck it ... I'm already hurt anyway, so whatever." She acknowledges that he behaves the way he does because he's hurt (and maybe that's why she's putting up with his bullshit more than she otherwise would because she's hurt, and understands).

 

Purely speculative, but I reckon this might be about that um ... married man she was seeing. Joe or Jim or whoever. Makes sense about him being in two minds, and the "serial killer" line. Maybe she knew he was married, or maybe she didn't. And also, picking him up on the corner when he's in town suggests that he isn't from LA.

 

So in conclusion, to me, Cinnamon Girl is a more complete song, thematically, although the very nature of both songs is that this relationship (or, relationships, if it's about two people) is up in the air and the future is uncertain.

 

ETA because I'm basically spamming this thread so I'll just write this here:

 

In terms of production, HIAB does nothing for me ... Jack and Rick both worked on it and, imo, it shows. It's all over the place, and it sounds like they couldn't make their minds up which direction they wanted to take it in, so it ended up going nowhere and sounding very demo-ish.

 

I really hate Jack's Fisher-Price keyboard but it doesn't bother me in Cinnamon ... and I think the "ah ah ah"'s and the outro really elevate the song. Would've liked more bass, but eh.

[PARADIXO 32,925]

 

It's a dilemma for her. I think the "Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah" signifies that she's in love, but also frustrated.

 

I definitely agree with this. Cinnamon is the most dramatic song on the album.

 

Also, when does she say "I can't wait"?

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

I definitely agree with this. Cinnamon is the most dramatic song on the album.

 

Also, when does she say "I can't wait"?

 

4:22

[Nobody 21,470]

4:22

 

It's a sample

 

https://youtu.be/NuDDhmO8c68?t=21

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

It's a sample

 

https://youtu.be/NuDDhmO8c68?t=21

 

Yeah, but that's the words ("I can't wait") ... right? #batears

 

Anyway, so far the taste is prevailing, with Cinnamon Girl winning 13 votes to 11. 13 sensible, awesome people, versus 11 crackheads.