FROGGO

Me too. (Also, I can't find the appropriate hip hop head to use in this situation so I'm really sad)

Me too. (Also, I can't find the appropriate hip hop head to use in this situation so I'm really sad)

I don't think Lana ever actually graduated. I mean, the fact that she consistently flubs and gives nonanswers when talking about philosophy/metaphysics (remember that interview when she was explicitly asked about metaphysics and couldn't give a legitimate answer?), the "mathematically proving reality of God" answer was horribly ignorant, and she CONSISTENTLY says that she went to school to study metaphysics... red flags galore. She claimed she graduated via correspondence which I highly doubt (i have a hard time believing she got all her professors to give her preferential treatment given the notoriously strict protocol of academic institutions)... I do however think that her interest in philosophy is genuine. It's hard to excuse all this because she's incredibly articulate otherwise...
 
The entire thing annoys me because I have the utmost respect for academia and lying about academic credentials is in my eyes, a really shitty thing to do. I think I'm the only one that's bothered by it on the forum

I think that while we try to "rationalize" the behaviour in this interview with "personality disorders", an inability to take criticism/adjust to fame properly,  she's human and just had an "off" day, etc, none of those rationalizations excuse her shitty attitude. They may explain, but they don't excuse it. 

I think that while we try to "rationalize" the behaviour in this interview with "personality disorders", an inability to take criticism/adjust to fame properly,  she's human and just had an "off" day, etc, none of those rationalizations excuse her shitty attitude. They may explain, but they don't excuse it. 

I'm not sticking up for Lana, I'm just stating my opinion on the interview. Frankly, I really don't have a problem with anyone criticising her for what she said, because what said was pretty   at times, see the poetry remark. Just don't take it personally, okay? I think we all can handle this without getting upset and mad at each other.

This, out of everything she said, was what made me gasp the most. This is indeed a very judgmental and pretentious statement. Like I said in my post one page earlier, I'd love to see a video recording of this interview... 

I agree with you on this one, I just felt like the thread had taken a harsh turn and needed some love.
 
I  guess Lana is one of those celebrities that one can feel very attached to. She has had struggles. her lyrics are very personal, she's quirky and a little awkward and most of all she adores her fans. I can't blame anyone for growing fond and even protective of her persona to th point of ignoring her flaws. I don't think you'll find anyone defending Phil Spector (to use Monickers example) on a forum because he doesn't have that sweetheart-persona. 
 
I understand that feeling, I really do, but it shouldn't be an excuse for stalling a critical discussion of Lana though.

A really great sentiment. There have been some really articulate, interesting posts (made in defense of)/(attempting to understand) Lana (@, @@DUKE, among others) and I've enjoyed reading them all. My problem is with the people for whom this line doesn't seem to exist. they can't seem to tolerate any curiosity whatsoever because that's ~prying~, let alone any articulate, reasonable criticism. It's as though they cover their ears, close their eyes and say "I'M NOT LISTENING, I'M NOT LISTENING" and then attempt to thwart the thread with their self-righteousness (i can't believe what I'm reading, so called "fans", etc) and their insistance on viewing her through rose-coloured glasses and excusing any valid criticism. It's laughable that the biggest perpetrator of this "liked" this very post

No, Lana doesn't owe us anything, but I'm also not obligated to like her or refrain from valid criticism of her just because I like her music. Frankly, it amazes me the amount of excuses some of you make for her at times. (As a side note, I think a lot of projection is going on there.)

I started writing a long diatribe quoting the interview extensively and dissecting the info in it as well as what I found objectionable, but honestly, there's so much to criticize here that it became one big TL;DR that I had trouble even organizing coherently. (And that wasn't even getting around to responding to some of the replies in this thread!) I might still post that, but for those of you who still don't get what some of us took exception to, here's the CliffsNotes version:
Superficial America-bashing that seems rooted in pettiness over harsher media criticism and less commercial success in the US (and a ridiculously false perception of it at that), not in any sort of intelligent critique of the US Bringing up the subject of being criticized as anti-feminist, bitching about it, then expressing complacent views on feminism and denying obvious inspiration by female icons Denying she cares about her appearance when she certainly does Stating she has a degree in metaphysics even though Fordham does not offer a degree in metaphysics (and as Maru pointed out there is some doubt whether she even graduated at all) Hurling accusations of media slander against her and her family about things she continues to lie about in the same breath Falsely claiming that she doesn't have money and that her family never had any money Bitching about a lack of control of her image and how the media portrays her in the same interview she admits to "fucking around with" journalists in her answers in previous interviews Judgmental and pretentious statements that other people don't care about music/poetry/art as much as her and Barrie in the same interview she says music isn't her primary focus A pervasive attitude of defensiveness and victim-playing throughout

A really great sentiment. There have been some really articulate, interesting posts (made in defense of)/(attempting to understand) Lana (@, @@DUKE, among others) and I've enjoyed reading them all. My problem is with the people for whom this line doesn't seem to exist. they can't seem to tolerate any curiosity whatsoever because that's ~prying~, let alone any articulate, reasonable criticism. It's as though they cover their ears, close their eyes and say "I'M NOT LISTENING, I'M NOT LISTENING" and then attempt to thwart the thread with their self-righteousness (i can't believe what I'm reading, so called "fans", etc) and their insistance on viewing her through rose-coloured glasses and excusing any valid criticism. It's laughable that the biggest perpetrator of this "liked" this very post

As a newbie I would just like to say that it's fricking fantastic to find a place like this where so many people care so much about Lana that they wanna discuss her even if it means that the debate gets a little heated.
 
Lana is like a beautiful clock. Showing the time is the primary function that makes us appreciate it, nothing will change that, but every now and then you might get curious how it looks on the inside, what makes it tick. So you open up the clock and starts poking around inside. And I guess that's what we're all trying to do here, open up Lana and poke around and I'm right now realizing how my metaphore is backfiring grossly. As we can't open up Lanas mind and get all the answers we try our best dissecting what she says and does,  and sometimes we find something that's not as pretty as we expected, and I think it's ok to talk about it. Of course there's a line where curiosity becomes way too scrutinizing, but that line differs from person to person, and so we get this heated debate. 
 
At the end of the day we still don't know Lana, but we're having a good discussion and we all love what she does.
 
And Lana? She's probably laughing all the way down to the bank right now so there's that. 

.... you guys are really annoying me and twisting words. no one here is like OMG IM DONE WITH LANA DEL REY IM LEAVING THE FORUM. 
 
we're allowed to have our opinions, just as you have yours. if you want to think everything she shits out is 100% gold, that's super cool but we're allowed to think otherwise, and that doesn't mean we aren't fans or that we don't support her. if we weren't fans, we wouldn't be on this forum. being a fan doesn't mean you're always LANA DEL REY IS MY QUEEEEEN etc. at the end of the day, I think it was a discussion ~ not any sort of uprising against Lana as some of you are making it out to be

I think that while we try to "rationalize" the behaviour in this interview with "personality disorders", an inability to take criticism/adjust to fame properly,  she's human and just had an "off" day, etc, none of those rationalizations excuse her shitty attitude. They may explain, but they don't excuse it. 

I think that while we try to "rationalize" the behaviour in this interview with "personality disorders", an inability to take criticism/adjust to fame properly,  she's human and just had an "off" day, etc, none of those rationalizations excuse her shitty attitude. They may explain, but they don't excuse it. 

I think that while we try to "rationalize" the behaviour in this interview with "personality disorders", an inability to take criticism/adjust to fame properly,  she's human and just had an "off" day, etc, none of those rationalizations excuse her shitty attitude. They may explain, but they don't excuse it. 

I don't think Lana ever actually graduated. I mean, the fact that she consistently flubs and gives nonanswers when talking about philosophy/metaphysics (remember that interview when she was explicitly asked about metaphysics and couldn't give a legitimate answer?), the "mathematically proving reality of God" answer was horribly ignorant, and she CONSISTENTLY says that she went to school to study metaphysics... red flags galore. She claimed she graduated via correspondence which I highly doubt (i have a hard time believing she got all her professors to give her preferential treatment given the notoriously strict protocol of academic institutions)... I do however think that her interest in philosophy is genuine. It's hard to excuse all this because she's incredibly articulate otherwise...
 
The entire thing annoys me because I have the utmost respect for academia and lying about academic credentials is in my eyes, a really shitty thing to do. I think I'm the only one that's bothered by it on the forum

I know. She listens to only singles by music legends (The Doors! Elvis! Bob Dylan! Frank Sinatra! Biggie!), strictly reads canonized literature (Lolita! Leaves of Grass! Howl!), and only appreciates classic films (The Godfather! The Godfather Part II! American Beauty!). Her taste isn't nuanced or inspired (see: "Oh, I just like the masters of every genre"). It's laughable when she claims that she has a ~true appreciation for the arts, she lives and breathes it, and simply can't be bothered to be affiliate with those she believes doesn't~ when it seems her current* taste is dependent on whether or not the artist/work in question has reached a revered status. 
 
Her inspirations read like a compilation of ~the best of the best~ from the who-sayers and taste-makers of "classic" work, these influential, "renowned" American media institutions. It's almost as though she trailed her finger up and down Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, American Film Institute's Greatest Films and Greatest Contemporary Works of the 20th Century** when choosing her influences...
 
No one can truly call into question something as deeply personal and visceral as one's passion for any given thing. It is impossible for me to make the case that Lana's excessively trite influences somehow diminish her ability to "...care about music deeply..." or to "...really [live] it and [breathe] it." Still, if I can't definitively say that Lana's passion for music is diminished because of her cookie-cutter influences, then who is she to say that others "...don't actually care about music and art" and that "they want to be cool"? Who said that she's the absolute authority in appreciating music and poetry and art? Even more compelling: Why is the person who ruthlessly had their authenticity called into question early in their career (to the point they went on to call it "lies" and "slander" in this very interview, mind you) suddenly calling into question the authenticity of fellow artists? What fucking hypocritical bullshit. She sounds like a real prick. She'll need all the good luck she can get finding that "high-class group of musicians" to be a part of because with that elitist attitude I suspect she'll have a really difficult time. 
 
 
*Sigh. I miss the kitschy, unabashedly low-brow Lizzy Grant that said she wanted to kiss Antony of Antony and the Johnsons. YEAH I'M GOING THE TYPICAL "I MISS LIZZY" ROUTE, DEAL WITH IT
 
**Let's pretend Whitman is a contemporary poet so that my snarky point still sticks

I know. She listens to only singles by music legends (The Doors! Elvis! Bob Dylan! Frank Sinatra! Biggie!), strictly reads canonized literature (Lolita! Leaves of Grass! Howl!), and only appreciates classic films (The Godfather! The Godfather Part II! American Beauty!). Her taste isn't nuanced or inspired (see: "Oh, I just like the masters of every genre"). It's laughable when she claims that she has a ~true appreciation for the arts, she lives and breathes it, and simply can't be bothered to be affiliate with those she believes doesn't~ when it seems her current* taste is dependent on whether or not the artist/work in question has reached a revered status. 
 
Her inspirations read like a compilation of ~the best of the best~ from the who-sayers and taste-makers of "classic" work, these influential, "renowned" American media institutions. It's almost as though she trailed her finger up and down Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, American Film Institute's Greatest Films and Greatest Contemporary Works of the 20th Century** when choosing her influences...
 
No one can truly call into question something as deeply personal and visceral as one's passion for any given thing. It is impossible for me to make the case that Lana's excessively trite influences somehow diminish her ability to "...care about music deeply..." or to "...really [live] it and [breathe] it." Still, if I can't definitively say that Lana's passion for music is diminished because of her cookie-cutter influences, then who is she to say that others "...don't actually care about music and art" and that "they want to be cool"? Who said that she's the absolute authority in appreciating music and poetry and art? Even more compelling: Why is the person who ruthlessly had their authenticity called into question early in their career (to the point they went on to call it "lies" and "slander" in this very interview, mind you) suddenly calling into question the authenticity of fellow artists? What fucking hypocritical bullshit. She sounds like a real prick. She'll need all the good luck she can get finding that "high-class group of musicians" to be a part of because with that elitist attitude I suspect she'll have a really difficult time. 
 
 
*Sigh. I miss the kitschy, unabashedly low-brow Lizzy Grant that said she wanted to kiss Antony of Antony and the Johnsons. YEAH I'M GOING THE TYPICAL "I MISS LIZZY" ROUTE, DEAL WITH IT
 
**Let's pretend Whitman is a contemporary poet so that my snarky point still sticks

Highly Sensitive Person (courtesy of the lovely @@PrettyBaby)
 
 
 

I know. She listens to only singles by music legends (The Doors! Elvis! Bob Dylan! Frank Sinatra! Biggie!), strictly reads canonized literature (Lolita! Leaves of Grass! Howl!), and only appreciates classic films (The Godfather! The Godfather Part II! American Beauty!). Her taste isn't nuanced or inspired (see: "Oh, I just like the masters of every genre"). It's laughable when she claims that she has a ~true appreciation for the arts, she lives and breathes it, and simply can't be bothered to be affiliate with those she believes doesn't~ when it seems her current* taste is dependent on whether or not the artist/work in question has reached a revered status. 
 
Her inspirations read like a compilation of ~the best of the best~ from the who-sayers and taste-makers of "classic" work, these influential, "renowned" American media institutions. It's almost as though she trailed her finger up and down Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, American Film Institute's Greatest Films and Greatest Contemporary Works of the 20th Century** when choosing her influences...
 
No one can truly call into question something as deeply personal and visceral as one's passion for any given thing. It is impossible for me to make the case that Lana's excessively trite influences somehow diminish her ability to "...care about music deeply..." or to "...really [live] it and [breathe] it." Still, if I can't definitively say that Lana's passion for music is diminished because of her cookie-cutter influences, then who is she to say that others "...don't actually care about music and art" and that "they want to be cool"? Who said that she's the absolute authority in appreciating music and poetry and art? Even more compelling: Why is the person who ruthlessly had their authenticity called into question early in their career (to the point they went on to call it "lies" and "slander" in this very interview, mind you) suddenly calling into question the authenticity of fellow artists? What fucking hypocritical bullshit. She sounds like a real prick. She'll need all the good luck she can get finding that "high-class group of musicians" to be a part of because with that elitist attitude I suspect she'll have a really difficult time. 
 
 
*Sigh. I miss the kitschy, unabashedly low-brow Lizzy Grant that said she wanted to kiss Antony of Antony and the Johnsons. YEAH I'M GOING THE TYPICAL "I MISS LIZZY" ROUTE, DEAL WITH IT
 
**Let's pretend Whitman is a contemporary poet so that my snarky point still sticks

I know. She listens to only singles by music legends (The Doors! Elvis! Bob Dylan! Frank Sinatra! Biggie!), strictly reads canonized literature (Lolita! Leaves of Grass! Howl!), and only appreciates classic films (The Godfather! The Godfather Part II! American Beauty!). Her taste isn't nuanced or inspired (see: "Oh, I just like the masters of every genre"). It's laughable when she claims that she has a ~true appreciation for the arts, she lives and breathes it, and simply can't be bothered to be affiliate with those she believes doesn't~ when it seems her current* taste is dependent on whether or not the artist/work in question has reached a revered status. 
 
Her inspirations read like a compilation of ~the best of the best~ from the who-sayers and taste-makers of "classic" work, these influential, "renowned" American media institutions. It's almost as though she trailed her finger up and down Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, American Film Institute's Greatest Films and Greatest Contemporary Works of the 20th Century** when choosing her influences...
 
No one can truly call into question something as deeply personal and visceral as one's passion for any given thing. It is impossible for me to make the case that Lana's excessively trite influences somehow diminish her ability to "...care about music deeply..." or to "...really [live] it and [breathe] it." Still, if I can't definitively say that Lana's passion for music is diminished because of her cookie-cutter influences, then who is she to say that others "...don't actually care about music and art" and that "they want to be cool"? Who said that she's the absolute authority in appreciating music and poetry and art? Even more compelling: Why is the person who ruthlessly had their authenticity called into question early in their career (to the point they went on to call it "lies" and "slander" in this very interview, mind you) suddenly calling into question the authenticity of fellow artists? What fucking hypocritical bullshit. She sounds like a real prick. She'll need all the good luck she can get finding that "high-class group of musicians" to be a part of because with that elitist attitude I suspect she'll have a really difficult time. 
 
 
*Sigh. I miss the kitschy, unabashedly low-brow Lizzy Grant that said she wanted to kiss Antony of Antony and the Johnsons. YEAH I'M GOING THE TYPICAL "I MISS LIZZY" ROUTE, DEAL WITH IT
 
**Let's pretend Whitman is a contemporary poet so that my snarky point still sticks

I think it's a tenuous thing to diagnose a person from afar, but I think Lana definitely has some problems that are coming across in this interview. I've had a lifelong problem with depression and various chemical substances, but I can only imagine being barely recovered and then having this barrage of hate and scrutiny directed at you. It would be enough to change anyone for the worse. Personally I'm not offended by her mood, seeing as I have social anxiety myself and can come across as angry and awkward and aloof, but rather by what she's saying--essentially ignorant elitism and just pure bullshit.
 
My main point is, I feel like if you have a degree in something, you should be able to talk about it. If she spent four whole years studying philosophy, I feel like she should be able to better articulate its ideas and seem aware/passionate/interested in questions regarding it. Her quotes about religion/philosophy seem underdeveloped at best and immature and misunderstanding at worst. She seems to fumble in talking about the topics  that supposedly influenced her growing up and music so much--nihilism, hedonism, free will, spirituality, fate--which should be very intimate and familiar to her. Remember that cringe-worthy interview where she defined metaphysics as "mathematically proving the reality of god"?? Maybe she was too high on ~methamphetamines~ through college to pay attention to the thing she was majoring in.
 
It's certainly a difficult thing to reconcile the stupidly hateful Lana in recent interviews with the Lana who kisses her crying fans and the Lana who wrote the sheer brilliance that is "You and Me." I suppose that's the real topic of philosophy here: human nature, having so many facets and quirks and flaws and rapid changes. Lana's only human--but a different person to everyone she meets, apparently.

I know. She listens to only singles by music legends (The Doors! Elvis! Bob Dylan! Frank Sinatra! Biggie!), strictly reads canonized literature (Lolita! Leaves of Grass! Howl!), and only appreciates classic films (The Godfather! The Godfather Part II! American Beauty!). Her taste isn't nuanced or inspired (see: "Oh, I just like the masters of every genre"). It's laughable when she claims that she has a ~true appreciation for the arts, she lives and breathes it, and simply can't be bothered to be affiliate with those she believes doesn't~ when it seems her current* taste is dependent on whether or not the artist/work in question has reached a revered status. 
 
Her inspirations read like a compilation of ~the best of the best~ from the who-sayers and taste-makers of "classic" work, these influential, "renowned" American media institutions. It's almost as though she trailed her finger up and down Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists of All Time, American Film Institute's Greatest Films and Greatest Contemporary Works of the 20th Century** when choosing her influences...
 
No one can truly call into question something as deeply personal and visceral as one's passion for any given thing. It is impossible for me to make the case that Lana's excessively trite influences somehow diminish her ability to "...care about music deeply..." or to "...really [live] it and [breathe] it." Still, if I can't definitively say that Lana's passion for music is diminished because of her cookie-cutter influences, then who is she to say that others "...don't actually care about music and art" and that "they want to be cool"? Who said that she's the absolute authority in appreciating music and poetry and art? Even more compelling: Why is the person who ruthlessly had their authenticity called into question early in their career (to the point they went on to call it "lies" and "slander" in this very interview, mind you) suddenly calling into question the authenticity of fellow artists? What fucking hypocritical bullshit. She sounds like a real prick. She'll need all the good luck she can get finding that "high-class group of musicians" to be a part of because with that elitist attitude I suspect she'll have a really difficult time. 
 
 
*Sigh. I miss the kitschy, unabashedly low-brow Lizzy Grant that said she wanted to kiss Antony of Antony and the Johnsons. YEAH I'M GOING THE TYPICAL "I MISS LIZZY" ROUTE, DEAL WITH IT
 
**Let's pretend Whitman is a contemporary poet so that my snarky point still sticks