Vertimus

I'm definitely not extrapolating the line to be associated with or encouraging "violence against women," but I think that's a valid interpretation, worry, or concern. I don't like the line because, like most of the refrain, it just seems lazy and unimaginative to me. But Lana can write whatever she wants. Perhaps that's exactly how she felt.

Look, not everyone is going to agree with you about everything, or anyone else. There's thousands of members here, and they have thoughts and interpretations of their own.

Read through the thread. We're not complaining. We're discussing, and it started with the "fuck me to death" line and how some are reacting to it.

Maybe you missed the photo she posted on IG where she's wearing some sort of crop top with the bottoms of her breasts exposed? It's Lana who seems to be reveling in her breasts lately (which do seem to have gotten larger as she's matured), and people are not all going to respond to what they might interpret as exhibitionism in a civil, respectful, 'Woke,' or politically correct way. Breasts are not inherently sexual in terms of biological function, but women's breasts are a large part of what make women sexually attractive to others, certainly including heterosexual and bisexual men and lesbians/gay women/bisexual women. Large buttocks are not inherently sexual either, but, like female breasts and male muscles, they have carried an erotic charge throughout recorded history. 120 years ago, even 'well-bred' middle class and upper middle class American WASP women wore bustles to highlight and exaggerate their backsides, and in the 1940s and 1950s, young American women often wore 'falsies' or specially padded bras to enhance their figures if they felt their breasts were not large enough. If all of this is merely due to Madison Avenue and 'the male gaze,' then why, conversely, have women been drawn to taller, rough-hewn, and well-built men throughout history? The French high court knew nothing of Madison Avenue, nor did the Britsh gentry in the first half of the 19th century. The idea of beauty has been with us since ancient Egypt, and probably existed before. Everywhere anthropologists travel, they find people, no matter how isolated from the rest of the world, adorning, decorating, stylizing, and enhancing their appearances through whatever is available, including tattooing and painting their bodies.

The only real question is: are we going to actually get one or the other in 48 hours or less??

Thank you. Yes, I think the best we can do is try to remove ourselves from individuals who have proven themselves to be coarse, crude, exploitive, intrusive, and disrespectful. I think this is what most of us do, or attempt to do, the world over. But the problem continues, so in a sense we’re just burying our heads in the sand. As a society, we can try to educate and civilize people via education in all its forms, but as we know, some people cannot be taught civility, people that are sociopaths and psychopaths, or just your garden variety thug that likes intimidating, bullying, and harassing others. From such people, you’re never going to get a respectful response to the erotic or sensual; everything to them is boiled down to the lowest common denominator.

I am all for sensual art, which goes back to the dawn of recorded time, and the entire southern European approach to sex, relationships, and art, but one slice of that pie is abuse, exploitation, harassment, and all other negative, intrusive forms of approach to sexuality, and in a world where people are definitely not all civil and respectful to others, we have to take that ‘bad’ with the good. Laws help, but they’re always ‘after the fact’ of base human nature, which is never going to be eradicated. Certainly, responsibility starts with the individual, in this case, Lana. She can’t argue that she can show her breasts provocatively but then say, “There’s only one acceptable response from my public regarding my revealing my breasts, and that’s one of appreciation and respect.” No. People are going to act in any number of ways, which they have the right to as long as those responses remain within the law. If they want to yell out, ‘Great tits, babe!’, or worse, we may cringe, but it’s their right to speak freely. Middle class American decorum and ‘nice’ values are never going to be embraced by a great portion of the world’s population.

Yes, but a real person who is flaunting her breasts in public, for her public. So the problem starts with her. Maybe she thinks it’s ‘art,’ who knows? But some people are always going to just see that as her portraying herself as a sex symbol, and so they are going to respond in kind.

I don’t care for the ‘fuck me to death’ line at all for a lot of reasons—it’s just tacky, at the very least—but as far as her breasts are concerned, Lana herself has been parading them all over social media for half a year or more, so there’s no one to blame but her. And the new album graphics even have that illustration of her with bare breasts. So if we’re complaining about it, we have to start at the source.

Unpopular opinion: I still haven't warmed to it at all. To me, it comes across as musically flat and like very lazy songwriting (something I first noticed on NFR!), perhaps because it was 'automatically written,' like she said in the W magazine. The 'fuck me to death' is lazy and embarrassing (and redundant after the "You fucked me so good I almost said I love you" from NFR!)--there are other, better, and more sophisticated/clever ways to express that sentiment---the "until I love myself" is tedious at this point (especially after she seemed to be taking full possession of herself as a woman on the last album) and the shout out to 'Hotel California' is clumsy and about as obvious as one can get in terms of classic rock references, like the 'stairway to heaven' in 'Coachella.' The whole song feels too wordy and concocted. I am glad so many others are enjoying it.

Lana even said that, after criticizing Lana, her musical style, and themes, Lorde then went ahead and stole them, leading some to believe that that was why Lana changed styles abruptly with UV.

I don't care much for it either, especially the Beatle-esque element. I am intrigued by the rumor that it and the NFR! title song were once parts of one another that were then broken into two. I could see that.

It's also one of my 3 favorite LDR albums; I like even more than one of the others, COCC.

Really--is this a joke, that one or more songs will be leaked on Christmas? Because I remember a few years back when 'Fine China' and, I think, 'Yes To Heaven' did leak on Christmas. And are members allowed so announce such things? That's not against policy?

This is a joke, right?

Very few musicians who say they're quitting music ever have...they just take a short break, whatever their original intention was and how seriously they meant it. If you read back through music history, you see that Joni Mitchell said she was retiring from music after she released 'Mingus' in 1979. Less than two years later, she was a back with the mediocre 'Wild Things Run Fast,' and then continued to release a lot of mediocre work in the decades to follow, that, in my opinion, really sullied her 70s reputation as the premier musician of that era. Lana will continue to write, and continue to want and need to write and record, and I seriously doubt she has any plan to quit at any given time. As someone said above, she loves her job--I think it was Venice Peach.

Definitely, and something more uptempo, as Gemini Lana Fan said.

Thank you. It's fascinating how widely lyrics can be interpreted, and how we unconsciously project ourselves into them without realizing it. The 'older woman, less desirable' thing is definately there. Tori Amos has written several songs about how that applies to the music industry, and sadly, continues to.

Thank you. I appreciate your saying so. As a fan of 'OM,' do you think it's about young people, that it's a fairly young woman speaking? I was surprised when another member told me that that was their interpretation. I see it, 100%, as a mature woman, say, of 55 or 60, who has lost her beloved and the father of her children (presumably her husband), looking back on her beautiful past life of wealth, racing cars, and glorious days in the Riviera, and on everything she has lost, including her physical youth, with barely-contained desperation. The "I'm out of time" line is also brutal.

Good point.

And there must be some reason for keeping it under lock and key. Is it just to maintain surprise or could it be that 'Del Norte County' is on the second half? I doubt it's because 'Serene Queen' or another leaked track has been added.

To me, 'Old Money' is one of her very best, and the only LDR song that has ever made me cry--and there's so many points in the song that are extremely painful and poignant. The end is just brutal---"and we were young and pretty." I think many of us, for various reasons, have felt "alone for reasons unknown to" us, perhaps it's simply part of the human condition, to feel overlooked, misunderstood, frightened, lost. If I had to select one LDR song for sheer brilliance, I would pick 'Old Money.' The only contemporary song I know that is sadder is Tori Amos's 'Playboy Mommy,' in which a woman--perhaps Amos, perhaps not--speaks to the unborn child she lost after acting irresponsibly ("in my platforms I hit the floor"), and thus losing the child (and Amos had at least one miscarriage). I like to listen to 'Old Money,' but I can't bear to listen to 'PM.'

Hhhmmm….then maybe we will see a song with those initials on the new album or it was made for a song cut from COCC or BB, depending on when we saw Lana wearing it.

Then someone must contact them and see what information we can squeeze out of them.

Doesn’t that mean, then, that Lana has stolen their design or trademark?