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lili

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  1. lili liked a post in a topic by shadesofloveduthenandnow in Jack Antonoff has revealed that him and Lana have recorded a new song at Henson Studios in Los Angeles, CA.   
    We’ll probably get a random Rick-produced unreleased don’t worry
     
     
  2. lili liked a post in a topic by Actor in Jack Antonoff has revealed that him and Lana have recorded a new song at Henson Studios in Los Angeles, CA.   
    I WOULD BE GRATEFUL IF SHE WORK WITH DAN A AGAIN or Rick
  3. lili liked a post in a topic by Offtotheraces01 in Lana at the Gucci Cosmogonie fashion show at Castel Del Monte in Andria, Italy - May 16th, 2022   
    The dark smudged eyeliner, the curls, the glamour! I hope we get some more glam soon it def feels like shes preparing for something
  4. lili liked a post in a topic by West Coast in Jack Antonoff has revealed that him and Lana have recorded a new song at Henson Studios in Los Angeles, CA.   
    Lana is past her prime, she's much more laid back and easy going. Going in the studio with Jack suits her cause it's a fun/carefree time (which isn't a bad thing in itself).
     
    Yall can think of me as the Jack hater on LanaBoards all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that "Lana mumbling lyrics on phone as I latently play the piano" DOES NOT give the same energy as "She walked into the studio with confidence and had me fire the drum player on the second day".
  5. lili liked a post in a topic by letsescapelizzy in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    Hi Litewave, if you have time and feel like it, please elaborate further on this topic..
    you are also a great writer, and i like to read your thoughts..
     
    same to you @@DeadAgainst and @@LoreleiLee..
  6. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    I don't know exactly either, but it seems to me that Lana's art is a sign of a wider phenomenon - of an emerging spiritual awareness in our society.
  7. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    Thank you Lorelei for the colorful description of the tension between masculinity and femininity and their integration in a woman. I am not sure what a perfect balance between the two would be, considering also the dispositions of one's body, but a certain degree of flexibility is surely desirable and healthy.
  8. lili liked a post in a topic by LoreleiLee in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    I have noticed a pattern in Lana's work that repeats, considering exchange between young lover and old caregiver: women have two kinds of animus, that haunt them in their dreams.
     
    These are the excerpts from the essay about my work, since I deal somehow with psychoanalysis, and partially with esotericism – I am not an expert - (some lines I remolded, and accentuated the examples of Lana's work or stages of progression on wavy spiritual axis, since her and my work overlap in some spots and knots):
     
    The main characters of my (and sometimes her) psychodrama are animus and anima, plus carnivorous demon or notorious double, and central actor, myself, with all aspects and archetypes of feminity and psyche. I found an interesting notion about how animus works inside the woman; he is either young, mad and bad rebel (tattooed, temperamental and wasted, with his gang, „you were a dick with your crew“ - Lana) that through visions and dreams reminds overly independent, busy, strong, stubborn amazonian superwoman that she needs to loosen up, or the old, scary, monstruous man (ancient sugardaddy with goldmine and thick cigar, mafioso or tutor/manager - Lana)  who is after  puella aeterna to face her with neccesity of taking responsibility for herself and to grow up, to face her demons and to resolve sexual ambuiguity, frustrations, fears, dependency to kindness of strangers, and playing victim.
     
    Puella aeterna is in Lana's case Lolita lost in herself, seductive, provocative, teasing, manipulative, naughty girl, unaware of her intoxicating sexual effect on men and of her psychic core, and she is doing all sorts of acrobacies to rest in that blessed state of being taken care off, because she, with her non-sublimated desires and youngster inner flames and hurricanes, represents certain danger mostly to herself.
     
    Then -  when woman is daydreaming while doing random things, it is the devil's playground and the perfect surrounding for animus to become malignant, terrifying and paranoia-inducing, so she must harness her intellect and creativity and do something concrete, build something lasting, perennial and  precious that will reflect her soul and affirm her identity, and maybe be valuable for society (or change other people's lives with her vision and creation). Lana greatly captured that danger of adverting her precious attention of her greater, sublime mission by citing verses about Lady of Shalott, who loses sight off her weave and looks down to irresistible knight, who symbolizes fatal distraction, and she loses focus and sacred mission.
     
    And before, she was split between puella aeterna and amazonian, because both young enfant terrible and corrugated father figure were after her (she was obsessed with them, because they assaulted the fortress of her mind and emotional chambers). Now, when she approaches her individuation, situation is reversed, she is, as a ghost, after them: she represents their conscience, sometimes bad, because they realized they treated her poorly and stabbed her heart to pieces (in videos like „West Coast“ and „Shades of Cool“). But there she is also beautiful, yet melancholy reminiscence, a fatamorgana that is like god's miracle, or good hearted and platonic succubus, not black as vampire, but white as angelic creature. She is mature enough not to take nightmarish revenge.
     
    She  played with various stages and roles of feminity, from a fragile, porcelain doll that stands for innocence, tenderness and being lost in the world, that is, the puella aeterna (a girl that hesitates to grow up, has daddy issues, is helpless and searches for her prince on the white horse – all those idealistic features), to the grown woman whose psyche and social conditioning is forcing her to change masks and personas; in other words, from doll and nymph, to virgin, whore, amazon warrior, vamp, femme fatale, empress, priestess and magician. Lana  searches for her holy grail of identity (ok, you've also said something similar);  the aim of that expedition is spiritual androginy, or masculine reason married with feminine emotions, intuition and wisdom that is tightly connected with wilderness and power of nature.
    Masculine also represents civilisation, and feminity vulcanic and oceanic instincts, unstoppable and transformative. Hollywood is masculine for its ambition and structure of power, but feminine because of decadence, chaos, voluptusity, passion and dreams that are coagulated there.
     
    As far as mythologic creatures go, I am as equally enchanted by Hecate, three-faced goddess, and Lilith, first Adam's wife, because the latter is one strong and independent woman that refused to subdue to man, but she also has her dark side, living at the bottom of the ocean and killing and eating children of married women. She fights against the system and is revolutionary, subversive element, thorn in the eye of patriarchal society, and also represents sexual freedom and confidence, and being in charge of her own body and sexuality (which facet of herself Lana started  to welcome in Ride already; she showed it in Ultraviolence songs tinted with rage, fury, revenge and pride – „so happy now you're gone“, „I want money, power, glory“, „you should run, boy, run“, „I'm a dragon, you're a whore“).
     
    And Hecate is female magician that has active impact on reality. She is also a creature of the night and moon (Honeymoon), from the dynasty of chtonic goddeses, related to secrecy, magic, darkness and descent into downward spirals of lower astrals, so to say (correct me if I am wrong about astrals – I know by now that lower ones are the dark and dangerous place when soul can loose its grip and person can descend to insanity if he or she is not ready to face demons or darkest and most hidden aspects of themselves). Feminity is still territory that appears as a dark jungle of irrationality, capriciousness, elusiveness and mystery, as in famous Freud's question, „What does a woman want“ that perpetuates the enigma of feminine soul. Because, female sexuality is a „dark continent“.
     
     And Lana's repetitive chanting „dark blue, dark blue“ and involving moon in the title of her album can be accepting her feminity, strong, integrated one, in totality: she is now her own and everyone else's mother, lover, child and sister. Oceanic depths and magnificent vastness of the harmonies and her return to chtonic, aquatic and lunar empire of goddess qualities are a sign of her curing from horrific turmoils from the past and skeletons in the wardrobe: she is lulled in the honey craddle of the night system of imaginative (Gilbert Durand), vs. day system. Second is schizoid, phalic, black and white, ambitious, controlling, rigid, stubborn, warrior-like and unapologetic, first is dark, soft, vividly colored in all tones of gems, fertile and soothing. It alchemically turns toxic spikes of depression into tender, balming, fructiferous feathers and furs of melancholia, which also contains sorrow, but that sorrow doesn't have destructive, but integrative quality. And it incites profusion of creative juices.
     
    Also, Melusine is one of the water creatures, and one of her incarnations is Lady Of The Lake, which is connected with the time of Sir Lancelot, the same knight that Lady Of Shalott looses her mind and life upon. And Lorelei is also one of the water/river nymphs ( ) - it is a name of the character Marilyn Monroe, Lana's mother, played in the movie "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes" (ok, the color of the hair is here irrelevant). And, Lana went a long road from sirens, also naiades and ondines, that have their master, Greek god of the ocean, Poseidon, therefore, are in the lower row, to eternal, comprehensive and supreme mother of the whole Ocean (High By The Beach might associate to the Queen by her Kingdom, and swelling ocean tide, which is the culmination of her feminity and feeling secure and magnificent in her own skin, needing nobody). - "Leave me alone, you phalic, penetrative, flashing, bullet-like paparazzi, I want to indulge myself in my soft, warm, delightful nest, which is a womb I came from, I am and I will be for more enchanting hymns of surf noir sadcore." She is now female Poseidon.
     
    I have also read that in gnostic cults there were orgies were many men and women were indulging sexual activities, but that sex was depersonalized (in contrast with egotistical sex between two romantically involved individuals or procreative sex with purely biological purpose) – it was an orgiastic, ecstatic tool to reach the contact with God and celebrate metaphysical myth; therefore, I would describe Lana's viscose and versatile sexuality in Ride with a bunch of free spirited bikers as her aim to transcend her lower being through sacred sexual submission to those masculine compadres and cock sparrows.
     
    Lana's ambiguity between fanatic devotion to her object of unconditional love ("you are my religion, you're how I'm living") and resurrected, magically transformed, wide-winged supervixen ("I'll do it on my own/I don't need your money") reminds me of Persephone and her double life/dual nature (one part of the year she spends with Hades, darksome and occult god of Underground/Hell, where she is entrapped and sacrificed, dependent and addicted - boyfriend, sugar daddy, cult leader; the other on the surface with her mother Demeter, goddess of fertility and harvest, i.e. with her grown up, autonomous self.
     
    And, concerning polarity between male and female in one person: Lana is a serial dater (as far as I remember from everything I've read, she always had long-term boyfriend, shorter adventure or fuck-buddy). As long as she will search resolving of her inner conflicts, excitement, fulfillment and protection in other people, i.e. men, she will never attain perfect balance of male and female energy inside herself. As visual artist and performer Marina Abramovic said in her manifesto, artist must spend a lot of time alone, in the house, on the top of the mountain, in the forrest, by the ocean, nevermind, but alone and contemplating, in the deepest contact with his or her innermost and truest and barest self and elements of nature and the universe. Nevertheless, there are different approaches, and Lana operates differently than Abramovic, but significant moments of solitude and absolute independence are crucial for one's integration and individuation, in Jungian and in mundane terms.
     
    These are just my amateurish musings.
  9. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    50 States = 50 Gates of Binah at the Still Pole of the World-Axis between the Blue and Red of Mercy and Severity
     
    Simone's Other Woman: http://www.oocities.org/writingryan/beauvoir.html
      Boy look at you, looking at me I know you don't understand You could be a bad motherfucker But that don't make you a man Now you're just another one of my problems Because you got out of hand We won't survive We're sinking into the sand  
      Religion.m4a = Salvatore as the "Savior"   The One as Shiva/Adam; the Other as Shakti/Eve, running and returning from each other down in Kali-fornia Dark Paradise.   To look for love by plumbing the depths of the unconscious, "deeper and deeper," is the mystic's path ...   Darling, dive deep and dark blue suede Rushing up from the water where the ice meets     The Blackest Dei: Kali means "beyond time"; Atlantic says: "Her career is all about music as a time warp, with her languorous croons over molasses-like arrangements meant to make clock hands seem to move so slowly that it feels possible, at times, they might go backwards."   The pole at the center of the spinning record, or Aurora's spinning wheel.
  10. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    I think that in her art, Lana is finishing not just Jim Morrison but the whole period of human history that is marked by separation between human and God. She reminds us of the glorious, vibrant but long forgotten beginning where we lived in harmony with the divine and to this end she invokes imagery of an early stage of a fateful romantic relationship, biblical paradise and idealized aspects of American past. She also recounts how this initial harmony was lost and we were plunged into darkness but holds out the hope for eventual reunion that now seems imminent ("Feet don't fail me now, take me to the finish line").
  11. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    I am trying not to say too much until the album drops, but ...
     
     
    Honestly the figure she always seemed most similar to is David Bowie -- while today he is canonized, back in the 70's he was often criticized as being a hollow, cynical manipulator of his own image, appropriating the styles of his avant-garde contemporaries to push a mainstream product (and still today; just read Scaruffi's writeup, and compare it to what he said about the Doors -- he liked Ultraviolence, ironically!). This was unfounded, I think, but his analytical approach to creativity was always in stark contrast to cohorts like Lou Reed and Iggy Pop, who seemed to be more like forces of nature than anything else -- and the same could be said for Jim Morrison.
     
     
    So, what is true poetry? I must refer to this telling passage by Robert Graves -- http://www.dhushara.com/book/diana/diana.htm
     
      But Graves went further and said that for the female artist, she must BE the White Goddess -- http://magmapoetry.com/archive/magma-37-2/articles/the-female-poet-and-the-male-muse/    
    By this definition, Lana is a true poet.
  12. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    I immediately saw that Tennyson's poem is a retelling of the Gnostic Sophia-myth, as some others have divined:
     
    http://www.sarastroblake.com/lady.htm
     
     
    http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/The-Hero-Program(1685768).htm
     
     
    The spiritual path of the individual mirrors the cosmic Gnostic creation mythos; in the first, "I'm in love with a dying man" as she plunges into "The Ocean" of the unconscious; in the second, Sophia (the Lady of Shalott) gazes down from the Pleroma into the reflected Kenoma below, and thus projects herself into it, a fate repeated in the career of the individual soul. The Ray being the individual who becomes Rey when she encounters her brunette alter-ego in the World-Soul. This is Eve with the apple in Tropico, the "creaturely Sophia" (Achamoth) who detaches herself from the heavenly Sophia (the red below and the white above) and falls into the land of Gods and Monsters.
      See Quispel (recommended reading): https://books.google.com/books?id=bqRGI6bugRcC&pg=PA50&dq=sophia+mirror+inauthor:quispel&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAGoVChMIvri348nwxwIVSEeICh159gVf#v=onepage&q=sophia%20mirror%20inauthor%3Aquispel&f=false
     
    Also Freke and Gandy (other recommended reading): https://books.google.com/books?id=swM_6ufZ2P4C&pg=PA159&dq=sophia+looks+pleroma+mirror&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBmoVChMIp6Hrv8jwxwIVESqICh0ncAl6#v=onepage&q=sophia%20looks%20pleroma%20mirror&f=false
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenoma
     
    Ultimate Soul = Pleroma
    Ego = Kenoma
     
    From the Still Point of the turning world , she watches the Boys who eternally run and return to her.
     
    Also http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/6789-freak/
     
    Your halo's full of fire I'm rising up, rising up My heart loves full of fire Loves full of fire   Baby if you wanna leave Come to California  Be a freak like me too   
    (California being Paradise as the liberated place of the Great Sunshine and hippie freedom lands)
     
    http://hermetic.com/stavish/essays/secret-fire.html
     
     
  13. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    Now that Lana started posting excerpts from Tennyson's The Lady of Shalott on her Instagram accounts, I googled out some commentary on this poem:
     
    http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/tennyson/section2/page/2/
     
    More specifically, the Lady eventually leaves her tower and descends into the outside world after she falls in love with knight Lancelot. And then she dies. Typical Lana.
  14. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    The mixing of autobiographical facts with archetypal imagery looks like the result of the Jungian maturational process called "individuation". It's a process where archetypal or religious material as well as forgotten autobiographical memories emerge from the individual's unconscious into consciousness and if the individual successfully integrates them with their consciousness they will be positively enriched. Art, religion, philosophy can aid the integration. It may be a challenging experience though and cause psychological disturbances. The unconscious is the individual's broader identity, the suppressed or unexpressed parts of their soul. So the Jungian individuation seems to be sort of what I imagine as the integration of soul and ego. Lana seems to have experienced an identity shift toward the soul, which also manifested by her adoption of the beautiful majestic name "Lana Del Rey".
  15. lili liked a post in a topic by Kommander in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    love everything I read here. I guess pre-BTD material would be interesting to study, though I don't think it is as spiritually infused as some of her later work, and I'm only familiar with AKA and her accoustic stuff. I'm not educated enough to develop on the whole soul/ego reccurent theme, but I think it has always been, in some degree, present in her work. Romantic relationships weren't used as metaphors like her more recent work : the whole thing seems to be more focused on establishing her identity and values, as well as her relationship with the inner and the outside, which lead up to this "inner world" she's talking about, ther relationship with God. I guess it also created a new form of dialogue between her and her men, which put the emphasis on their relations and the "ego/soul" discussion, whereas in her oldest songs, especially in AKA, love affairs seemed to be more of a platform for her to express images and visions of herself, name-dropping even more cultural references, guys disappearing behind stereotypical images.
     
    Her interest in time (proeminent, as she's about to release a song based on Burnt Norton), is also visible in Lana's first works : the profusion of names, references to places, people, countries, the abundance of nicknames she gives to her characters and to herself, the collisions between autobiographical and completly fictionnal events or feelings... and not to mention the numerous musical influences on the record from psyche americana to some electro beats on "Brite Lites", create this "time free" haze. Nothing and everything is true and a fiction at the same time, frozen in a mix of movement and stillness ; always possibilities, dreams, juxtaposed to real thoughts and stories. Even AKA's title, while being what it is for artistic and commercial motives, is another proof of the abstract notion that is Lizzy's self in the record. This is the place  where her music got really soulful, with her experience of deeply emotional or even religious-like snapshots, like in "Oh Say Can You See" or obviously in "Pawn Shop Blues" and "Disco", where she tries to establish her relationship with God. At the end of the whole discussion, she comes up with her prime ideas about herself and the world, which she uses now in her new records.
     
    Some of her main musical inspirations, especially Cat Power in her early days, share this spiritual quality in their songs and imagery, but I think she also creates, kind of consciously, the strongest oxymoronic pact (idk how to translate it properly in English, but it's basically autofiction) that I came across in modern popular music, sending mixed messages about her songs not being that serious and deep while making 10mn long "autobiographical" videos about her ambigious past using cultural and biblical references. It enhances the cult quality that's part of her image as a pop music figure, and ends up being another bit of her ethearal personnality.
  16. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    http://www.algonet.se/%7Ebassman/articles/96/hol.html
     
      http://www.parareligion.ch/2010/bowiegrail.htm   This track and "Without You" are one ("I lost myself when I lost you" = "I'm nothing without you") … "Can you hear me" being the transmission from soul to ego as he is lost in his tin can spaceship spinning around the Still Point
  17. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    Interesting. I don't know much about her pre-Born to die songs but from what I glimpsed her typical concepts were already there, just waiting for the moment when richer melodies and production bring them to the world stage.
  18. lili liked a post in a topic by delreyfreak in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    This section reminds me of a lyric in Playing Dangerous: "If you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the fire, you might get what you desire, boy. Love is strange, sometimes it makes you crazy, it can burn or break you down" This line actually correlates with what you're saying quite well. I love how literally every Lana song reminds me of others in some way or another.
  19. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    I can see the alchemical reference to rebirth through fire but there seems to be a difference between being purified/refined by fire and being destroyed by fire so you have to start from scratch again. The second option doesn't seem particularly attractive, it's like a major setback and I'm afraid that's implied by HBTB. In terms of eternity this is just another ripple in time but in terms of human life this may lead to a long period of rebuilding consciousness.
  20. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    "People say your imagination is your greatest tool to success, and I think it’s because things manifest in reality from the visions you have in your mind’s eye. And so the most important thing is to really have a rich internal world, and live there, because reality will never meet your expectations."
     
    The inner world is the archetypal world, and the outer is that which is visible to the senses … Within You and Without You.
     
     
    Boy, look at you looking at me
    I know you know how I feel Loving you is hard, being here is harder [cf. Ultraviolence's "loving you is really hard"] You take the wheel I don't wanna do this anymore It's so surreal I can't survive if this is all that's real [cf . "reality will never meet your expectations"] ... Boy, look at you looking at me I know you don't understand ... Anyone can start again Not through love but through revenge Through the fire we're born again Peace by vengeance brings the end    To be born again through the fire is another overt alchemical reference--"the inner marriage, where anima and animus alchemically merge in the crucible of human flesh." We see the same dynamic at work from previous tracks, namely, the boy is the Subject (Ego) and she is the Object (Soul as outpictured), but at this point she has now begun to fundamentally reverse the dynamic … it's "Music to Watch Boys To" rather than vice versa. She becomes the active agent, rather than the passive receptacle of violent male energies.   The beach would recall another Eliot poem … "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock."
  21. lili liked a post in a topic by litewave in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    This T. S. Eliot quote about time and timelessness, or movement and stillness, or incarnation and transcendence, nicely sums up the audio video for High By The Beach:
     

     
    Reality contains all possibilities, which are fundamentally timeless or eternal because they can be neither created nor destroyed. But among these possibilities are their orderings in sequences which we experience as time, as processes in which things become differentiated/individuated. Thus timeless reality contains in itself its temporal manifestations or expressions - timeless art manifests as life, script comes alive in a movie, so to speak. The eternal soul embarks on a voyage of exploration of reality, with ego as the pinnacle of the soul's individuation in time and a body as their expressed form/vehicle in which they live and move.
     
    The first two singles off Honeymoon offer two scenarios of what happens next. The first one (Honeymoon) is a vision of love, of reconciliation of the qualities of ego and soul, of learning from the past and continuing the journey on a higher level. The other one (High By The Beach) is a vision of further deterioration which will compel the soul to get rid of the ego and start again.    
     
    Ken Carey - The Third Millennium
  22. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    She sort of explained that when she said her songs were "personal" and she didn't want anyone to hear them. And really, I almost feel like my posting about them is a violation of privacy … but it's more interesting than talking about which dresses she's wearing. There is an esotericism beyond orthodox Christianity. 
     
      In order to dismiss all of this, you would have to blatantly ignore what she says … http://www.thefader.com/2014/06/17/love-death-and-jazz-seven-outtakes-from-our-lana-del-rey-intervie/  
     
    Sometimes, people confuse their own intellectual apathy with others' … 
  23. lili liked a post in a topic by slang in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    St. Vincent recently provided a link to an interesting Borges interview. Borges is one of those authors I have on my bucket list, though I haven't read much of him yet, but from what I know of him, he's into mysticism and symbolism. Two musings on his part seem interesting in that I think they apply to the discussion here and to LDR's case (i.e., may reflect the way she thinks of her art). 
     
    https://twitter.com/parisreview/status/623010736567111680
    the direct link
    http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4331/the-art-of-fiction-no-39-jorge-luis-borges
     
    <<<
     
    [on indeterminancy of meaning:]
     
    BORGES
     
    But in the case of James, yes. In the case of James, yes. I don't think he thought the world had any moral purpose. I think he disbelieved in God. In fact, I think there's a letter written to his brother, the psychologist William James, wherein he says that the world is a diamond museum, let's say a collection of oddities, no? I suppose he meant that. Now in the case of Kafka, I think Kafka was looking for something.
     
    INTERVIEWER
     
    For some meaning?
     
    BORGES
     
    For some meaning, yes; and not finding it, perhaps. But I think that they both lived in a kind of maze, no?
     
    INTERVIEWER
     
    I would agree to that. A book like The Sacred Fount, for example.
     
    BORGES
     
    Yes, The Sacred Fount and many short stories. For example, “The Abasement of the Northmores,” where the whole story is a beautiful revenge, but a revenge that the reader never knows will happen or not. The woman is very sure that her husband's work, which nobody seems to have read or cares about, is far better than the work of his famous friend. But maybe the whole thing is untrue. Maybe she was just led by her love for him. One doesn't know whether those letters, when they are published, will really come to anything. Of course James was trying to write two or three stories at one time. That's the reason why he never gave any explanation. The explanation would have made the story poorer. He said The Turn of the Screw was just a pot-boiler, don't worry about it. But I don't think that was the truth. For instance, he said, Well, if I give explanations, then the story will be poorer because the alternative explanations will be left out. I think he did that on purpose.
     
    INTERVIEWER
     
    I agree; people shouldn't know.
     
    BORGES
     
    People shouldn't know, and perhaps he didn't know himself!
     
    ....
     
    [On repetition in his work:]
     
    INTERVIEWER
     
    To get back to your own work for a moment: I have often wondered how you go about arranging works in those collections. Obviously the principle is not chronological. Is it similarity of theme?
     
    BORGES
     
    No, not chronology; but sometimes I find out that I've written the same parable or story twice over, or that two different stories carry the same meaning, and so I try to put them alongside each other. That's the only principle. Because, for example, once it happened to me to write a poem, a not too good poem, and then to rewrite it many years afterwards. After the poem was written, some of my friends told me, “Well, that's the same poem you published some five years ago.” And I said, “Well, so it is!” But I hadn't the faintest notion that it was. After all, I think that a poet has maybe five or six poems to write and not more than that. He's trying his hand at rewriting them from different angles and perhaps with different plots and in different ages and different characters, but the poems are essentially and innerly the same.
    >>>
     
    Perhaps the bottom line is that a large part of art creation is both obsessive and indeterminate, and I don't think LDR will ever say directly what she means by anything (or maybe she'll give a banal response?) for reasons (or feelings) similar to what Borges expresses. There is also a heretical view that Borges *might* be expressing, which is that the art consumer gets to choose the meaning (hopefully based on some kind of plausible reasoning).
     
    I probably should end here, but in the interest of applying Borges musings, what are the six prototypical song/poem spaces LDR uses? Just for the sake of concreteness here's what I'd put on a pop quiz asking this question: 
     
    Bad/Interesting Boys, Bad/Interesting Girls,  Relationships (Blissful and Toxic), Bad/Interesting Lifestyles (alcohol/cocaine/wealth/hedonism), Lost Youth/Fragility of Life
     
    On top of general topic areas there could also be hidden systems of meaning, at least hypothetically, and these can be either fortuitous or intentional (and maybe unconscious is a 3rd category?). So for Lost Youth/Fragility of Life I might think that a hidden symbol system could be set up about Christianity (e.g., we know she is Christian and we know she is fixated on death). These expand the number of things an artist *could* be writing about (especially, if the artist may not always know what they are writing about!). IMO, it doesn't matter whether the artist intended certain meanings or not. To me it's only interesting how well the symbol correspondences can be made to seem for an interpretation, which also includes considering disconfirming evidence as well. 
     
    Can't help but mention modern illuminati "interpretations" of art. These seem invested in showing certain very common occurrences are present in the art (one eye visible, triangles, *any* sexual content) and taking that to mean illuminati agendas are present in the art (mind control?, satanism?). It assumes all art as seductive to either to good or evil. It hasn't given much thought to expressing its implied position that there is actually (organized) mind control and (organized) satanism out there, so it just seems like a funny aberration in thinking to me. 
  24. lili liked a post in a topic by DeadAgainst in The Paradise and the esoteric origin of mankind   
    A Bible? Probably around this time http://biblehub.com/psalms/146-3.htm
     
    http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/5121-lana-del-rey-covers-rolling-stone-august-2014/page-2
     

     
    http://www.livereal.com/spiritual_arena/perennial_philosophy_evidence.htm
     
     

     

     
    http://www.npr.org/2014/06/21/323209791/lana-del-rey-i-dont-have-other-people-in-mind
     

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