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Israel-Palestine conflict (Israel-Hamas war)

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On 11/10/2023 at 4:13 PM, Veinsineon said:

Well they were just payed almost 30 billion by the US&EU for natural gases they will be able to reap from the land

 

 

Yep. It's all about the territory, natural gas, and future trade corridors. There's a lot of money in Palestine for Israel and their allies to share. Billions.

 

It has nothing to do with religion, the "promised land" or Israel claiming what's theirs, nor their "right to self defence". It's just white colonialism all over. Oil is lower in supplies, and natural gas is the new oil. What they can unearth in Gaza could last humanity for another 125 years. Natural gas is also more environmentally friendly so this ticks a lot of the greenwashing and other ESG goals that everyone has to abide by.

 

These countries are performing an act of ethnic cleansing so that Israel can take over the land, reap its economic benefits, and then share it with the US, Uk, France, and so forth. Israel is already giving out licenses to companies to look for the natural gas off their Mediterranean coast. More about all of this here: https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

 

Natural gas a well as the potential trade corridors that Isreal can create through Gaza is why the US, Uk and so on are sitting idly and watching the genocide play out. This genocide is in everybody's interest. This is very sad and shocking, but it's a truth now obvious to everyone. 

 

Now, here is the interesting part:

 

I've heard from folks familiar with the history and the region that Israel knew that the concert massacre of their people by Hamas was coming that day. Just think, all those Israeli soldiers out there, during war times, with huge walls, apartheid and a shit ton of weapons, but the Israeli army was NOWHERE in sight to protect their own civilians from Hamas? Yeah right. The concert-goers were used as scapegoats, so that Israel would get the "full right" to "defend itself", meaning: kill the civilians, continue their ethnic cleansing, and further displace the Palestinians. Bit by bit, the Gaza borders will move, and Israel will take over completely.

 

Now, what Elon Musk pointed out the other day is that Israel didn't realize that Hamas knew that their concert massacre is going to kick off the bloodshed. They also knew that Muslims around the world, as well as Christians, would see it on freewheeling socials, recognize it for what it is, and retaliate against Israel en masse. And now, the whole world is siding with Hamas, seeing their narrative, and recognizing the Israeli atrocities for the very first time. Despite them going on for decades.

 

So, while Israel is getting its land and moving ahead with its territorial and financial goals, they're losing international support and more and more "Hamas"-style enemies are being born day by day. What's more, people all around the world have started learning about Israel, seeing what its doing, and noticing what its goals are. So, while Palestine may have lost 11,000 people, it won a lot in terms of international recognition.

 

Now everyone with a brain, understands that not only Palestine is a victim of Western colonialism - the entire world is.

 

The problem is, what do we all do with this information? What does one do when they learn their own government is funding a genocide in the Middle East for the sake of natural gas and money, in tandem with other governments? Natural gas which isn't even that much better than oil, only moderately so. Ony about 30% less carbon dioxide emission than oil. 

 

Basically, they will kill and displace Palestinians, take their land and get the gas - just so they can keep filling their pockets while killing the planet more and more.

 

What I've personally learned from all this is:

 

1. There is no such thing as human rights. There are only powerful countries and poor countries. The rules don't apply if you have the powerful countries in your corner

2. America is once again at the heart of crimes against humanity and their biggest supporter and funder. This keeps on happening, and your own citizens are funding it. It's fucked up

3. America would rather fund a war and then sort out its messed up healthcare system

4. Europe too is all about financial interests

5. The UN as an institution is pretty useless 

6. Ireland has more balls than anyone in Europe in terms of speaking the truth

7. England's new Prime Minister is already corrupt, a goner

8. Israel is literally a made up, small country, but they have so much power and so many lobbyists that they can perform ethnic cleansing while the whole world is watching. Oh, and they have nuclear powers as well

9. Social media can be used for more than narcissism. It can be a powerful tool for unearthing the truth and exposing our governments

10. Most of the stuff we get from the media is a complete lie. Even articles in reputable magazines like New York Times or the Wall Street Journal. In fact, especially in those publications

 

This list goes on and on. There's so much to unpack, and discern, and I can totally understand why everyone is so shocked and distressed. If you're feeling anxious right now (I know I am!), well, you're not alone

 

The time for political and social activism is now, guys. We not only need to learn what we can do to to help the Palestinian cause, but we also need to stop our governments from making decisions on our behalf. Our planet is at stake. 

 

I'm on Elon Musk's team. Electric cars should be the way forward, and Big Oil or Big Gas, need to be stopped at every cost.

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On 11/12/2023 at 10:41 AM, barttttender said:

 

 

Yep. It's all about the territory, natural gas, and future trade corridors. There's a lot of money in Palestine for Israel and their allies to share. Billions.

 

It has nothing to do with religion, the "promised land" or Israel claiming what's theirs, nor their "right to self defence". It's just white colonialism all over. Oil is lower in supplies, and natural gas is the new oil. What they can unearth in Gaza could last humanity for another 125 years. Natural gas is also more environmentally friendly so this ticks a lot of the greenwashing and other ESG goals that everyone has to abide by.

 

These countries are performing an act of ethnic cleansing so that Israel can take over the land, reap its economic benefits, and then share it with the US, Uk, France, and so forth. Israel is already giving out licenses to companies to look for the natural gas off their Mediterranean coast. More about all of this here: https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

 

Natural gas a well as the potential trade corridors that Isreal can create through Gaza is why the US, Uk and so on are sitting idly and watching the genocide play out. This genocide is in everybody's interest. This is very sad and shocking, but it's a truth now obvious to everyone. 

 

Now, here is the interesting part:

 

I've heard from folks familiar with the history and the region that Israel knew that the concert massacre of their people by Hamas was coming that day. Just think, all those Israeli soldiers out there, during war times, with huge walls, apartheid and a shit ton of weapons, but the Israeli army was NOWHERE in sight to protect their own civilians from Hamas? Yeah right. The concert-goers were used as scapegoats, so that Israel would get the "full right" to "defend itself", meaning: kill the civilians, continue their ethnic cleansing, and further displace the Palestinians. Bit by bit, the Gaza borders will move, and Israel will take over completely.

 

Now, what Elon Musk pointed out the other day is that Israel didn't realize that Hamas knew that their concert massacre is going to kick off the bloodshed. They also knew that Muslims around the world, as well as Christians, would see it on freewheeling socials, recognize it for what it is, and retaliate against Israel en masse. And now, the whole world is siding with Hamas, seeing their narrative, and recognizing the Israeli atrocities for the very first time. Despite them going on for decades.

 

So, while Israel is getting its land and moving ahead with its territorial and financial goals, they're losing international support and more and more "Hamas"-style enemies are being born day by day. What's more, people all around the world have started learning about Israel, seeing what its doing, and noticing what its goals are. So, while Palestine may have lost 11,000 people, it won a lot in terms of international recognition.

 

Now everyone with a brain, understands that not only Palestine is a victim of Western colonialism - the entire world is.

 

The problem is, what do we all do with this information? What does one do when they learn their own government is funding a genocide in the Middle East for the sake of natural gas and money, in tandem with other governments? Natural gas which isn't even that much better than oil, only moderately so. Ony about 30% less carbon dioxide emission than oil. 

 

Basically, they will kill and displace Palestinians, take their land and get the gas - just so they can keep filling their pockets while killing the planet more and more.

 

What I've personally learned from all this is:

 

1. There is no such thing as human rights. There are only powerful countries and poor countries. The rules don't apply if you have the powerful countries in your corner

2. America is once again at the heart of crimes against humanity and their biggest supporter and funder. This keeps on happening, and your own citizens are funding it. It's fucked up

3. America would rather fund a war and then sort out its messed up healthcare system

4. Europe too is all about financial interests

5. The UN as an institution is pretty useless 

6. Ireland has more balls than anyone in Europe in terms of speaking the truth

7. England's new Prime Minister is already corrupt, a goner

8. Israel is literally a made up, small country, but they have so much power and so many lobbyists that they can perform ethnic cleansing while the whole world is watching. Oh, and they have nuclear powers as well

9. Social media can be used for more than narcissism. It can be a powerful tool for unearthing the truth and exposing our governments

10. Most of the stuff we get from the media is a complete lie. Even articles in reputable magazines like New York Times or the Wall Street Journal. In fact, especially in those publications

 

This list goes on and on. There's so much to unpack, and discern, and I can totally understand why everyone is so shocked and distressed. If you're feeling anxious right now (I know I am!), well, you're not alone

 

The time for political and social activism is now, guys. We not only need to learn what we can do to to help the Palestinian cause, but we also need to stop our governments from making decisions on our behalf. Our planet is at stake. 

 

I'm on Elon Musk's team. Electric cars should be the way forward, and Big Oil or Big Gas, need to be stopped at every cost.

Over half of Israel's entire population is mizrahi, meaning jews from Arab countries that were either expelled in the aftermath of the 1948 war or decided to migrated to Israel, without counting the 20% Arab pop that lives there. It's not a evil white people against defenseless brown people story.


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12 minutes ago, Limelight said:

Over half of Israel's entire population is mizrahi, meaning jews from Arab countries that were either expelled in the aftermath of the 1948 war or decided to migrated to Israel, without counting the 20% Arab pop that lives there. It's not a evil white people against defenseless brown people story.

 

Yes, it is if those brown people are backed and funded by the predominantly white Americans and Europeans. The Israelis are being used by Americans and others to fulfil their colonialist, economic interests. Otherwise, they would've called for a ceasefire. 

 

Surely, you can put 2 + 2 together?

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It's interesting to see the public reaction to Kanye West who spoke negatively about Zionism and Jewish influence in politics as we are seeing with this current conflict versus the public reaction to the said conflict. 

 

Kanye is similar to Lana. It takes a long time before what they said is digested properly by the GP. 

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33 minutes ago, barttttender said:

 

Yes, it is if those brown people are backed and funded by the predominantly white Americans and Europeans. The Israelis are being used by Americans and others to fulfil their colonialist, economic interests. Otherwise, they would've called for a ceasefire. 

 

Surely, you can put 2 + 2 together?

The US has bases in many Middle Eastern countries, not just Israel, and other countries like Saudi Arabia have already said they are still going to normalize relations with Israel. American aid is important but mostly when it comes to diplomacy, their aid only represents 1% of the Israeli GDP. A ceasefire now would be the same as losing, they'll only stop when they reach their goals, no international pressure is going to make them stop


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3 minutes ago, Limelight said:

The US has bases in many Middle Eastern countries, not just Israel, and other countries like Saudi Arabia have already said they are still going to normalize relations with Israel. American aid is important but mostly when it comes to diplomacy, their aid only represents 1% of the Israeli GDP. A ceasefire now would be the same as losing, they'll only stop when they reach their goals, no international pressure is going to make them stop

 

1 Bn in direct "aid" to Israel during a genocide isn't about "diplomacy". It's about supplying weapons.

 

"A ceasefire now would be the same as losing." - Say what now? You mean killing 10 K more civilians would be considered as a win? Are you in any way implying that what they're doing is a good, reasonable thing? Please consider your phrasing.

 

But, yes, I do agree that the international pressure won't do much. America killed, what, 1 million Iraqis under the pretense of weapons of mass destruction, which they never found. If they decide to commit genocide, there's no stopping them. The world can shout and scream, but it isn't going to do much.

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52 minutes ago, barttttender said:

 

1 Bn in direct "aid" to Israel during a genocide isn't about "diplomacy". It's about supplying weapons.

 

"A ceasefire now would be the same as losing." - Say what now? You mean killing 10 K more civilians would be considered as a win? Are you in any way implying that what they're doing is a good, reasonable thing? Please consider your phrasing.

 

But, yes, I do agree that the international pressure won't do much. America killed, what, 1 million Iraqis under the pretense of weapons of mass destruction, which they never found. If they decide to commit genocide, there's no stopping them. The world can shout and scream, but it isn't going to do much.

If not the US, it'll be Russia or some other country, the US needs a stable partner in the middle east so they won't stop.

And yeah ,10k deaths sucks but that's just the reality of war and the enemy hiding in dense populated areas. Israel at least tries to limit the number of deaths, it could be much higher. If it stops now the same thing will just happen in a couple of years unfortunately, so yeah they can't stop.

 

Also I just saw you're from or live in Dubai, so your point of view makes sense. 


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5 minutes ago, Limelight said:

If not the US, it'll be Russia or some other country, the US needs a stable partner in the middle east so they won't stop.

And yeah ,10k deaths sucks but that's just the reality of war and the enemy hiding in dense populated areas. Israel at least tries to limit the number of deaths, it could be much higher. If it stops now the same thing will just happen in a couple of years unfortunately, so yeah they can't stop.

 

Also I just saw you're from or live in Dubai, so your point of view makes sense. 

 

My point of view makes sense everywhere. I'm European but I live here yeah.

 

Also, are you really one of those who thinks that 10,000 civilians died because of a hunt for Hamas?

 

Newflash: Israel couldn't care less about Hamas or the hostages. They're ethnically cleansing Gaza. Get with the program! 

 

So, yes, they CAN stop. But they want the land, and the natural gas, so they won't. 

 

Have you been living under a rock?

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Limelight said:

If not the US, it'll be Russia or some other country, the US needs a stable partner in the middle east so they won't stop.

And yeah ,10k deaths sucks but that's just the reality of war and the enemy hiding in dense populated areas. Israel at least tries to limit the number of deaths, it could be much higher. If it stops now the same thing will just happen in a couple of years unfortunately, so yeah they can't stop.

 

Also I just saw you're from or live in Dubai, so your point of view makes sense. 

 

hi, i think it’s easy to generalise these things as just “war” when we are desensitised. 10k death does not just “suck”- and israel is doing absolutely nothing to limit the number of deaths. this is a genocide on civilians, who are being blamed for the actions of hamas, and not hamas themselves unfortunately. this is not about getting the hostages, they are bombing the hostages, they don’t care. sure they care a little bit- but this is not at all their objective.

 

i think you are either intentionally or inadvertently consuming a lot of propaganda that made you think this way- i urge you to open your mind.


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1 hour ago, twinkletoes7 said:

 

hi, i think it’s easy to generalise these things as just “war” when we are desensitised. 10k death does not just “suck”- and israel is doing absolutely nothing to limit the number of deaths. this is a genocide on civilians, who are being blamed for the actions of hamas, and not hamas themselves unfortunately. this is not about getting the hostages, they are bombing the hostages, they don’t care. sure they care a little bit- but this is not at all their objective.

 

i think you are either intentionally or inadvertently consuming a lot of propaganda that made you think this way- i urge you to open your mind.

Nah, I know the whole story, how it started, what Israël has done, the settlements etc, I'm just looking at the actions taken by the country in a geopolitical context.

If the country didn't tell people to evacuate, created a human corridor like it has been done in the last few days, I can assure the number of deaths would be triple that, If not more.

Does that mean Israel is innocent? Nope, but if you understand the geopolitics you understand their current actions.

 

Edit: basically my point is that it's gullible to think a ceasefire or a simple solution as "free gaza/west bank" can be found. There's a reason not even Egypt wants Gaza

 


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13 minutes ago, Limelight said:

Nah, I know the whole story, how it started, what Israël has done, the settlements etc, I'm just looking at the actions taken by the country in a geopolitical context.

If the country didn't tell people to evacuate, created a human corridor like it has been done in the last few days, I can assure the number of deaths would be triple that, If not more.

Does that mean Israel is innocent? Nope, but if you understand the geopolitics you understand their current actions.

 

Edit: basically my point is that it's gullible to think a ceasefire or a simple solution as "free gaza/west bank" can be found. There's a reason not even Egypt wants Gaza

 

sure, more people would have died, less people would have died however- if they were not doing that in the first instance. so for that reason, i don't find it relevant. they have murdered over 10000 people, people who are more than just a statistic. 

politics is corrupt, but should we expect people to simply comply, because it makes sense that in the pursuit of greed, somebody might eventually seek to eliminate an entire population in palestine? 

so despite any geopolitical reasoning, the war crimes committed are unjustifiable. they should be held accountable, and "free palestine" is to put pressure on unelected and elected politicians to be forced to hold israel accountable for their actions. it is not that shallow or simple, nobody ever said it would be.


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2 hours ago, twinkletoes7 said:

sure, more people would have died, less people would have died however- if they were not doing that in the first instance. so for that reason, i don't find it relevant. they have murdered over 10000 people, people who are more than just a statistic. 

politics is corrupt, but should we expect people to simply comply, because it makes sense that in the pursuit of greed, somebody might eventually seek to eliminate an entire population in palestine? 

so despite any geopolitical reasoning, the war crimes committed are unjustifiable. they should be held accountable, and "free palestine" is to put pressure on unelected and elected politicians to be forced to hold israel accountable for their actions. it is not that shallow or simple, nobody ever said it would be.

 

Thank you. Exactly what I would have said.

 

No geofuckingpolitical goals justify the slaughter of 5,000 children. Israel needs to be trailed for crimes against humanity. And that's the bottom line and everything that matters.

 

And to limelight, "creating a human corridor" to banish an entire population into another country, as if that country (Egypt) belongs to them? Only sadistic lunatics would think this is acceptable.

 

Fyi the reason why Egypt doesn't want them is because they're poor af and can barely survive themselves.

 

Note: I was in Cairo only a month ago, and couldn't believe that some 17 M people live in those conditions. The influx of Palestinian would be an economic nail in the coffin to them.

 

So, no, this corridor isn't an option. And no, neither the appallingly sad history of Gaza, nor anyone's interest justify in any way what is happening over there right now.

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On 11/13/2023 at 5:32 AM, Strangelove said:

It's interesting to see the public reaction to Kanye West who spoke negatively about Zionism and Jewish influence in politics as we are seeing with this current conflict versus the public reaction to the said conflict. 

 

Kanye is similar to Lana. It takes a long time before what they said is digested properly by the GP. 

Lana supports the genocide on Palestinians .. 

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Dozens killed as Israeli forces attack al-Fakhoora School in northern Gaza

Many hundreds of people are believed to have taken shelter at the UN-run school.

Israeli air raids have killed dozens people at the al-Fakhoora School, run by the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), in Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza.

At least 50 people were killed in the bombing, the Palestinian Ministry of Health said on Saturday.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/israeli-forces-strike-al-fakhoora-school-in-northern-gaza

 

Jordan condemns massacres of Al-Fakhoura, Tal Al-Zaatar schools

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates condemned the heinous and continuing war crimes committed by the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) in Gaza, the latest one being the targeting of displaced residents at the UNRWA's Al-Fakhoura and Tal Al-Zaatar Schools, in a flagrant violation of international law and the absence of an international position to stop this raging war and the ensuing human catastrophe.

The Ministry's official spokesman, Ambassador Sufyan Al-Qudah, affirmed the Kingdom's strong rejection and condemnation of this act, which is incompatible with all human and moral values, and with the rules of international humanitarian law, especially the Geneva Convention of 1949 for the Protection of civilians in times of War.

https://en.royanews.tv/news/46609/Jordan condemns massacres of Al-Fakhoura, Tal Al-Zaatar schools

 

With 102 Workers Killed, U.N. Agency in Gaza Struggles to Provide Aid

At least 102 workers from the largest United Nations agency in Gaza have been killed in five weeks of heavy Israeli bombing. Most did not die in the line of duty but instead while at home, often in strikes that also killed members of their families, U.N. officials said.

They were men and women. The largest number were teachers. Others included school principals, warehouse workers, engineers, a software developer, a gynecologist and a man in charge of staff safety. He was killed in his home along with his wife and their eight children, said Juliette Touma, the director of communications for UNRWA, the agency that cares for Palestinian refugees and their descendants across the Middle East.

“It is a huge, huge loss,” Ms. Touma said. “Every day, we get more of these reports of our colleagues who were killed.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/world/middleeast/unrwa-gaza-aid-struggles.html

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https://www.map.org.uk/landing-pages/gaza-emergency-situation-2023

On 7 October, Israel launched an extensive aerial bombardment across all areas of Gaza, hitting homes, hospitals, clinics, schools and essential infrastructure. This has resulted in mass casualties and destruction of civilian infrastructure:

  • More than 11,078 killed, including more than 4,506 children
  • More than 27,490 injured, including more than 40% children. More than 3,250 remain missing under the rubble. 
  • 67% of the victims are children, women and the elderly 
  • 200,000 + housing units damaged or destroyed, roughly 45% of all homes in Gaza
  • The cumulative number of IDPs since the start of hostilities in Gaza is estimated at over 1.5 million. This figure includes nearly 690,400 sheltering in 149 UNRWA facilities. In recent days, tens of thousands of IDPs, who were previously staying with host families, have relocated into public shelters, seeking food and basic services. This has increased pressure on already overcrowded shelters. The average number of IDPs per UNRWA shelter is nearly four times their intended capacity. 

This escalation is spilling over into the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Since 7 October:

  • 172 Palestinians, including 46 children have been killed by Israeli forces and settlers
  • More than 2,586 people have been injured, including at least 261 children. Israel detained around 2000 Palestinians across the West Bank 
  • Nearly 1000 people have been displaced 
  • Severely tightened movement restrictions across all areas, obstructing access to healthcare

Crazy how much damage has been done in only 6 weeks, in Gaza roughly 6.4 people live per home and over 20,000 homes have been completely destroyed. So about 130,000 people won't even have a home to return to. Then all the other buildings destoryed and cars, fishing boats, hospitals, shops, schools. Pretty much no chance of these ever being rebuilt and not any time soon anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Barry said:

Dozens killed as Israeli forces attack al-Fakhoora School in northern Gaza

Many hundreds of people are believed to have taken shelter at the UN-run school.

Israeli air raids have killed dozens people at the al-Fakhoora School, run by the United Nations agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA), in Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza.

At least 50 people were killed in the bombing, the Palestinian Ministry of Health said on Saturday.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/18/israeli-forces-strike-al-fakhoora-school-in-northern-gaza

 

Jordan condemns massacres of Al-Fakhoura, Tal Al-Zaatar schools

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates condemned the heinous and continuing war crimes committed by the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) in Gaza, the latest one being the targeting of displaced residents at the UNRWA's Al-Fakhoura and Tal Al-Zaatar Schools, in a flagrant violation of international law and the absence of an international position to stop this raging war and the ensuing human catastrophe.

The Ministry's official spokesman, Ambassador Sufyan Al-Qudah, affirmed the Kingdom's strong rejection and condemnation of this act, which is incompatible with all human and moral values, and with the rules of international humanitarian law, especially the Geneva Convention of 1949 for the Protection of civilians in times of War.

https://en.royanews.tv/news/46609/Jordan condemns massacres of Al-Fakhoura, Tal Al-Zaatar schools

 

With 102 Workers Killed, U.N. Agency in Gaza Struggles to Provide Aid

At least 102 workers from the largest United Nations agency in Gaza have been killed in five weeks of heavy Israeli bombing. Most did not die in the line of duty but instead while at home, often in strikes that also killed members of their families, U.N. officials said.

They were men and women. The largest number were teachers. Others included school principals, warehouse workers, engineers, a software developer, a gynecologist and a man in charge of staff safety. He was killed in his home along with his wife and their eight children, said Juliette Touma, the director of communications for UNRWA, the agency that cares for Palestinian refugees and their descendants across the Middle East.

“It is a huge, huge loss,” Ms. Touma said. “Every day, we get more of these reports of our colleagues who were killed.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/world/middleeast/unrwa-gaza-aid-struggles.html

It's fitting the January 6 tapes came out recently that disproved the idea of a violent Capitol insurrection, meanwhile there's the headline of the same Capitol government actively funding genocide in Gaza. 

 

If there was ever a more grave signal for nuclear warfare, it's most definitely now. 

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https://www-der--postillon-com.translate.goog/2023/11/laune-der-natur.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

There is this distant conflict where a lot of injustices are happening and there are a lot of people who want to do something about it (in vain), but since they can't, they choose to support one side to the extreme and agitate against the other one.

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