Lana, Lorde, & Feminism

[ConeyIslandQueen262 1,068]

You can be a feminist and I really really appreciate Lorde's music, but to say that you're nothing without the person you love has got nothing to do with feminism. Love is something beautiful shared between two humans and you DO depend on each other. You can't change that and if you're totally fine after a break up because you're a strong independent woman who doesn't need anybody, you're pretty cold-hearted in my opinion   Nonetheless I know what Lorde means with her words. However, I still adore Lana's lyrics much more  :come2: (seductive face that attracts men)

[Jazzmin 302]

I've been thinking about it and gotta admit you're right, guys - the girl from her song IS really dependend. Sometimes less, sometimes more but she is. In "Is It Wrong" or "Jelous Girl" she is even obsessive and I doubt it's sane... In "She's Not Me" what can bother someone is that, well, his ex-girlfriend is dead and even if she wasn't, she's his EX. It shouldn't be like this that once you've touched somebody, they can never build a new relationship again if something goes wrong and you don't suit each other.

But again, what does it have to do with feminism? It's something about relationships, yeah, indeed a very problematic thing but I don't think anybody is biased because of their sex/gender and the same feelings could've happened to a boy as well.

 

And if we should take seriously what Lana sings, there are more frightening things to bother - in "Kinda Outta Luck" she kills somebody for fun only. Or the whole motive of taking drugs, about which she sings in so many song, too many to mention. But what I'd appreciate about the character is that she realizes her lifestyle is not always fun and she sings also about the bad, not so pretty and romantic side ("Bad Disease", "Velvet Crowbar"). I don't think she's idolizing anything.

In fact my feelings about Lana's works are similar to thoughts about Nabokov's "Lolita". The character can be horrible but because of psychological probability, it's like real life, I can also get inside their head and - shiiit - like them in spite of what they do. And the style of writing is so poetical which makes me read/listen to it again and again. (Of course I don't mean Lana is such a person like Humbert, as I said she's sensitive and tries to be good to other people when she can.)

[lola 6,643]

I just found this and really like it, better than her thoughts on feminism in the Electronic Beats interview:

 

She discussed how her romance has led many to label her an anti-feminist: “I get it. It looks like I’ve chosen a path of submission," she explained. "But I’m a modern day woman in so many senses. I pay my way and work hard for things but it is my choice that at the end of the day I have a dominant male in my life that is hands-on. Someone who wants what he wants the way I do. I get so tired of trying to have it only my way, it’s nice to have someone else who also has their life and opinions. I have to be so assertive in life that it's nice to feel escape through a really passionate romance.”

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/news/lana-del-rey-praises-winehouse-29262761.html

[Lirazel 700]

It's unrelated to the topic, but had to say this:

 

Lana explained where she gets her musical inspiration from. The star finds a lot of her ideas in the dream world, rather than real life situations.

“Einstein said, ‘Your imagination is more important than intelligence,’ and I have a very, very big imagination," she continued. "I love to live in my internal world and will never stop seeking influences and visions for my art."

OMG, I love this quote... it works well with the idea that Lana's 4w5.

[FROGGO 2,806]

It's unrelated to the topic, but had to say this:

 

OMG, I love this quote... it works well with the idea that Lana's 4w5.

Why do you think she's 4w5? (Not in the context of this quote, but in general). She strikes me as a very obvious 4w3. 

[Lirazel 700]

Why do you think she's 4w5? (Not in the context of this quote, but in general). She strikes me as a very obvious 4w3. 

I could see this too... I took that she's 4w5 mostly from her rich imaginative life and the quote in which she has said that connecting to people is hard for her, so it hurts her when she loses the person. I've seen here someone make a pretty good argument about her being 4w5, but can't find it...sigh.

 

EDIT: found it! Check Iola's last post here: http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/3671-do-you-think-lana-is-a-complete-fake/

[FROGGO 2,806]

I could see this too... I took that she's 4w5 mostly from her rich imaginative life and the quote in which she has said that connecting to people is hard for her, so it hurts her when she loses the person. I've seen here someone make a pretty good argument about her being 4w5, but can't find it...sigh.

 

EDIT: found it! Check Iola's last post here: http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/3671-do-you-think-lana-is-a-complete-fake/

@@lola's (or rather, @'s) post had no mention of a five-wing; it was solely a description for enneagram 4, which we both agree on.

 

I would also say that a "rich, imaginative life" and her difficulties connecting to people (and subsequently struggling when she loses them) are not w5 or enneagram 5 traits, but rather, just a general 4 trait across the board, regardless of wing or variant stacking. 

 

A brief look at the key motivations of each enneagram type comes in pretty handy:

 

ENNEAGRAM 5

Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

ENNEAGRAM 3

Key Motivations: Want to be affirmed, to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others.

 

 

Personally, I would type Lana as a ISFP, 4w3, sx/so. 

[Lirazel 700]

@@lola's (or rather, @'s) post had no mention of a five-wing; it was solely a description for enneagram 4, which we both agree on.

 

I would also say that a "rich, imaginative life" and her difficulties connecting to people (and subsequently struggling when she loses them) are not w5 or enneagram 5 traits, but rather, just a general 4 trait across the board, regardless of wing or variant stacking. 

 

A brief look at the key motivations of each enneagram type comes in pretty handy:

 

ENNEAGRAM 5

ENNEAGRAM 3

 

Personally, I would type Lana as a ISFP, 4w3, sx/so. 

Okay, I guess I'll agree with you. I've always read that 4w3 is a more social type, while 4w5 is a withdrawn one.

But don't you think that the 5 description that you gave fits with Lana's interest in metaphysics, life after death?  This also makes me think of this:

 

 

In the name of higher consciousness

I let the best man I knew go

'Cause it's nice to love and be loved

But it's better to know all you can know

I said it's nice to love and be loved

But I'd rather know what God knows

I agree with your idea of Lana's type, except I'm still torn between 4w3 and 4w5.

[HEARTCORE 18,971]

I've been thinking a lot about Lana and Feminism recently...and I've come to the conclusion that imo, Lana is not anti-feminist. In songs like Video Games, I don't think she is saying 'you are a man and therefore I do everything for you'. I think it's more 'I am in love with you and I do everything for you'; if Lana was lesbian, for example, I believe she'd still be giving off the same message. I think it's less about gender in Lana's songs, and more about being in love. She doesn't say 'I am a woman, I must be submissive', it's more 'I'm in love with you therefore I am submissive'.

 

As well as that, is feminism not about equality between men and women? Feminism isn't about being an emotionless robot that's equal. If Lana feels this way, then surely it's detrimental to the feminist cause for feminists to state that she's being anti-feminist?

[NickDelRey 7]

"Lana Del Rey is always singing about being in the Hamptons or driving her Bugatti Veyron or whatever, and at the time, me and my friends were at some house party worrying how to get home because we couldn't afford a cab."

opinions?

She also called lana del rey's music irrelevant. 

 

I think lorde needs to take a step down and stop insulting people much more successful than her

[Daisy Chains 338]

are we back in 2013?

[COLACNT 5,180]

i can't wait for the paradise tour

[BENTLEY 3,495]

Old news

[Honeymooner 336]

I heard a new album was coming out... Ultra-somethingorother?

[thatsomason 1,202]

When is she finally gonna release Tropico???

[trayertrash 7,211]

I love this site 

[slang 1,532]

I think Lorde softened her opinion since that quote. Maybe someone can find her followup quotes?

 

Anyway, Lorde's friends with Taylor Swift, and it wouldn't surprise me if they (along with Kim Gordon) hang around Lanaboards from time to time. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2909287/Taylor-Swift-Lorde-sport-similar-Daisy-Dukes-hike-Los-Angeles.html

[VegasBaby 895]

are we back in 2013?

ikr

 

[electra 20,644]

Lana's actually going to be born this year guys so exciting.

 

But still, I think Lorde's opinions were irrelevant on Lana. She has no right to say Lana's work is detrimental for others when she "glorify's" x thing, especially when Lorde herself "glorify's" poverty, assault, over-working yourself, etc. They're all detrimental in their own way.

 

I still like her music though, but the mirror doesn't lie

[leaked_version 10,499]

I just can't. Lana is releasing this Summertime Sadness remix by Cedric Geravais or however that dude is called. Such a sellout! I quit!