elllipsis

This kinda reminded me what they say about BDSM relationships that 'the submissive is the one with the power'. It's true.

this is a lana del rey fan forum, we have a 46 page thread dedicated to assumptions about her love life. this is an interesting topic imo, not just about lana's or lorde's views on feminism and empowerment but also our position on the subject. and i don't think we've overdiscussed at all so far

lol isn't that what a forum is about...

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

I think about lana re: feminism a lot tbh and I had a revelation recently. While lana definitely portrays a relationship in which she is submissive, or at least a woman who prefers to be dominated, I feel like there's a real sex positive message in her songs that's kind of lacking in pop music as a whole.
 
Obviously sex is not an untouched topic in music, by male or female artists. Something I have noticed from female singers in particular is that sex is almost always sung about with love. The two seem to appear mutually exclusive, you know? Like, you cannot possibly have sex without being in love with the person you had sex with. It's also often referred to as "love making" which has always struck me as the kind of euphemism you would use in front of your parents. It makes sex seem so dirty and inappropriate. This is where I think lana differs slightly. She fucks for love but she also fucks for pleasure. She fucks because she wants it and she fucks for this grand opulent persona she's built around herself. She does not let this make her a whore or reduce her femininity in any way and tbh I think that's pretty cool~

This kinda reminded me what they say about BDSM relationships that 'the submissive is the one with the power'. It's true.

lana's older material definitely sheds more light on her views on the dynamics she likes in a relationship. "let me put on a show for you, daddy", "you can be the baawwss", "beat me and tell me that no one will love you better than you do", "i like your ultra-violent swing, i like it when you treat me mean" etc. etc could all seem a little shocking to people at first imo but the bolded parts show that lana wants all of this and she's telling her guy what whe wants to do/wants him to do/will let him do. she's not being oppressed by some bad man, she's choosing to be submissive. on btd, she doesn't rly talk about this and could be misunderstood

http://instagram.com/p/YuMykLtlUC/
 
Doesn't stop her tho. 

hahaha mte!! Like, I wonder if I hadn't heard anything but BTD if I'd have a similar view.. not that a lot of Lana's lyrics through the span of her career aren't similar, but def. varied... viewpoints? that's not the right word but w/e ~ PSB for example "In the name of higher consciousness, I let the best man I knew go" Nothing really like that on BTD. I mean I thought Radio was, but then there was that interview where she explained the meaning

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

I don't buy for a single second that American is about Barrie. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Dude's white af, his skin certainly isn't 'golden brown'. He also doesn't seem like the type of guy who'd listen to Crystal Method or drives fast around LA flirting with random girls, he actually seems like the exact opposite of that. 
 
 
And am I the only one who thinks Bel Air is simply about / inspired by Axl Rose? It's full of GnR references (run to heavens gates, sweet child of mine, idol of roses iconic soul) & this line - You've got a flair for the violentest kind of love anywhere out there - also fits. Besides, well, it wouldn't be the first time she wrote about him, would it?

she's a girl, she's going to be compared to girls. obviously. i rly don't like this quote, it's like she's talking down to lana and thinks she's superior to her...not all of lana's songs are about boys and even if they were, if she chose to do that then why not? lana thinks about love and relationships a lot but she's obviously also very concerned with her career or else she wouldn't have dedicated the past 6 years solely to her work...lorde seems a little quick to judge imo

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

Such a lovely song doesn't deserve to be accompanied with such stupid lyrics
 

I don't buy for a single second that American is about Barrie. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Dude's white af, his skin certainly isn't 'golden brown'. He also doesn't seem like the type of guy who'd listen to Crystal Method or drives fast around LA flirting with random girls, he actually seems like the exact opposite of that. 
 
 
And am I the only one who thinks Bel Air is simply about / inspired by Axl Rose? It's full of GnR references (run to heavens gates, sweet child of mine, idol of roses iconic soul) & this line - You've got a flair for the violentest kind of love anywhere out there - also fits. Besides, well, it wouldn't be the first time she wrote about him, would it?

This is honestly my favourite thing Jessa has said on that show! Feminism is about a woman's choice to do as she pleases with her life and no one else impeding them from doing otherwise. So Lorde is technically being anti-feminist by saying what she said.

oh! excuse me, i'm british. i'm also very embarrassed now 

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

I agree with a big part of what you said, but I don't think she was trying to be controversial tbh. If anything, she was trying to be politically correct by saying something *a lot * of people strongly believe in these days. I think it's kinda sad that a portion (because not all of it is like this, not by any means) of the feminist movement is less about true empowerment & telling women it's ok to make their own choices, and more about dictating how a feminist & empowered woman should behave and be like, and trying to impose those views on all other women regardless of how they actually feel about them.
 
This pretty much sums up my opinion on what I just said:
 

 
It sure as hell wasn't right when men did it, and it's still not right when women do it either.
 
 
About what Lorde said: imo (and like I said before in that status) that's an invalid criticism when it comes to music or any other type of art. I don't think artists should 'moderate' themselves or 'rethink' what they want to sing or write about because of a potential copy-cat effect on their audience. She didn't lie though, the drug-loving, adulterous & men-dependent lifestyle Lana sings about & seems to be fascinated with isn't exactly the healthiest in the world; however, and even though she eventually became a role model (even if she never wanted it, she didn't have a choice), Lana is first and foremost a musician & imo her primary concern while writing music can't be 'oh dear, how negatively will this influence my fans?'.

Kiwi is what you call people from New Zealand.

Kiwi is what you call people from New Zealand.