Vertimus

Yes, I've said it here before, but every time I hear the first part of 'Taco Truck,' as much as I enjoy it, it seems to me it could have another 'Venice Bitch' and a sure-fire LDR classic had the TT parts gone on another 3-4 minutes. I'd be happy even if someone would just copy the first part and make a new version with the first part doubled or tripled.

I say: Sweet/Arcadia

Yeah, I get the rich older man and the 'kept girl' or 'sugar baby' aspect, I just wish it was slightly more lyrically cohesive. And that does tie in, lyrically, to some of the BTD/P themes. The 'rockafella' part, musically, sort of jars with the rest of the song for me.

I listen to 'Taco Truck' and 'LTLI' the most and about equally, and then 'Fishtails,' which I prefer to its fraternal twin, 'Tulsa Jesus Freak.' 'Margaret' isn't a bad song, in my opinion, Lana just tried to do too much with it, with Jack singing (somewhat clumsily; maybe it's the production or the mastering) and then all the talking at the end. Whether it fits on the album is another question--it belongs to the lighter/brighter side of OC, 'Sweet,' 'Grandfather,' 'The Grants,' 'LTLI.' I like Lana's vocals on 'Candy Necklaces' verses a lot. Classic 'dark' Lana. The 'Rockafella My Umbrella' part I don't really care for; the use of the 'Rockafella' seems completely random. Maybe the song was rushed, especially the chorus.

It's the best part of the entire album.

I think, for better or worse, an artist presents a certain stance, especially at the beginning of their career, a persona, and this is true of musicians from Billie Holiday to Bob Dylan to Jeff Buckley to Beyonce and the boys from 21 Pilots. And that stance often changes for some artists--look how many personas Madonna has had--while other, more centered artists often maintain the same persona over the decades--like Prince or Bruce Springsteen. Lana has changed so much since BTD/P, and has every right to, as apparently she feels she's expressing herself more completely, genuinely, and honestly, something she seemingly needed to do to exorcise her demons. So much of OB is deeply personal, and presented as deeply personal, and that's the way I've received it. I get it, but for me, a lot of it is too subjective to be really interesting as songs, rather than poetry or diary entrees, things she's written completely for herself. For example, learning the things we learn about her life in 'Fingertips' certainly excites a lot of her more emotional Stans, who say it makes them cry, or hits them so powerfully that they have to pull over to the side of the road to sob, but what about everyone else? The events are just sort of listed, they're not presented in a dramatic way like they were in 'Wildfire Wildflower.' The music just sort of tinkles on; you can barely hum it. As I see it, and I know I'm in the minority here, just because these things happened to her doesn't make them necessarily interesting as presented. Who hasn't faced multiple tragedies and losses, or been victimized, including the suicide of loved ones? My best friend in high school, Steve, who I loved dearly, committed suicide just before his 23rd birthday, to name one example from my own life. And judging by the 'common events of day-to-day life' she's been singing about, I expect the next album to have song titles like 'Stretch Jeans,' 'Bathrobe,' 'Interviewing Maids,' 'Cinnamon Toast,' 'Lovin' That New Reality Show,' 'Having The Carburetor Fixed,' etc.

I can relate to a lot of what you've said here--and what's largely missing on OB, but which was present on West Coast, Ride, Doin' Time, High by the Beach or Blue Jeans, is tension, contrast, especially musically. I also miss the lighter, funner side of Lana, which we haven't heard in ages except for 'Wild At Heart,' though 'Groupie Love' was a sad attempt at an Old School lighter song, I think, and 'Margaret' is as well, but it should have either had Jack's verse or Lana's spoken part, but not both (the spoken part adds nothing IMO, I would ace it). It's the sophisticated Lana I also miss, and the sophisticated and sometimes archly clever lyricist of 'Hollywood's Dead,' 'Hollywood,' 'Radio,' 'Gods & Monsters,' 'Cola,' etc. I respect her right to write and record whatever she wants and go in whatever direction she likes, but with OB, I feel I'm losing touch with her for the first time since BTD.

I can relate to a lot of your points, especially 1, 6, and 8, and, to a lesser degree, 7, though it's been on OB that I feel my connection with breaking Lana for the first time, which is sad for me. I know that artists don't necessarily progress and get better and better with each album, painting, play, film, poem, or book, but I can only relate in the most general way to songs like 'Sweet,' 'Margaret,' 'The Grants,' and 'Grandfather.' The distance from her material on early songs like 'Summertime Sadness' is what I loved--we even find it on 'late' unreleased tracks like 'Serene Queen'--but it seems that's a part of her artistry she's moved away from on OB. Of course, I respect her right to do whatever she wants to do, whatever she wants to explore, 100%.

Apparently so; I'm quoting someone who said it earlier in this thread.

1) The 'Unreleased' seems moot at this point, especially after BB. It presents too many problems, like: "It's songs most Stans and fans already have," "Will she just rip copies off YT and make everyone unhappy again?" or, if she rerecords 'Hollywood,' 'Serene Queen,' 'Fine China,' 'JFK,' 'Unidentified Flying Bill,' 'Dragon Slayer,' etc., then she still has to go back into the studio for a few months, which is a lot of work, and many Stans will no doubt be unhappy with the inevitable changes that result. 2) The covers album, if it exists at all, seems more likely (I don't believe it does exist). 3) For LDRX as an album of new material, I'd like it to go off in the direction of the first part of 'Taco Truck,' for me, the best part of OB, and have a lot of drama, energy, tension, and life, like, in fact, 'Serene Queen.' Something that sounds professionally produced and mastered. Something vibrant and distinct that has been carefully cultivated without coming across as carefully cultivated. I feel OB became too subjective, and the lack of distance from her material doesn't make it a better album. I realize a lot of Stans love the deep lyrical and emotionally subjectivity of some of the OC tracks, but I can't see her going any further in that direction unless it's on a poetry album. That she said she's interested in making (another) pop album sounds like good news to me.

I still suspect they're going to be just background vocals on her dad's records, something like that, not fully-developed lyrical tracks.

It's much more like a 'New Age' track or piece of music than the earlier two were.

I was referring not to her voice overall, or her voice overall on 'OB,' but on certain songs, and on specific parts of those songs. So please don't misunderstand what I said or mistake the context. A lot of 'the problem' has to do with the recording, the production, and the mastering, though certainly not all of it. When I hear her straining and her voice going sharp, I can't agree that her voice sounds 'angelic' or particularly 'beautiful.' Overall, if I had to select one or more of her albums on which I thought her voice sounded best, OB would not be one of them. I don't think 'White Dress' is a good example to use, because clearly the vocals on that song are not standard or typical of her, and I don't think anyone knows why she decided to sing that song that way. It's too early to tell, but her voice may be in the process of genuinely changing, as many vocalists' voices do as the get older, and sometimes in a fairly short timeframe.

‘Thin’ is also a good word for it. ‘Rich,’ ‘full,’ it is not.

But it's not a matter of a 'heavy' voice, just one without strain. To me, it sounds very awkward and it jumps out at me every time. I can hit that note better than she does.

But, on both the '3 white butterflies...', why does her voice sound so thin and strained? To me it sounds as if she either can't find the note or can't hit it, or it's just a very bad choice of notes, period, for her voice.

For the first time on any LDR album, I hear a shrill quality in Lana's voice, especially on 'Grandfather,' 'The Grants,' and 'A&W,' but also a little on 'Fingertips.' Does anyone else hear this? We're all such audiophiles here, I'm constantly amazed at the number of things different members are able to pick out, from annoying sounds to clicks and different instruments in the arrangements. Classic female vocalists like Laura Nyro and Kate Bush also occasionally had a shrill quality to their vocals--but Nyro sang in the loose, 'live' Amy Winehouse style, which made it tolerable, but when Bush goes shrill, as she does on several of her later albums ('The Sensual World' and 'The Red Shoes'), to me it's unlistenable.

Honestly, is there any objective way to tell what her best album is, or which is most loved, most valued, most underrated, most overpraised, most decried? We know that NFR! received the most critical praise from the music establishment, but other than that, there's just a cacophony of Stan and fan voices shouting, arguing and disagreeing all over the internet. And that includes us here.

A lot of people do love themselves in a healthy manner, and thus do not relate to that line, though they can understand it.

I agree about the production and the general sound, which I think could have been so much better overall on OC. How much further can she go in this sleepy direction?

OB is project stemming from Lana's early middle age. We saw some of that on COCC and BB too--all the humdrum, but no doubt sincere, lyrics about meeting for coffee, walking to the mall, watching television, and doing the laundry. She's well over the 'fantasy life' she lived during the BTD/P period, long over it. She's got marriage, children, and family on her mind. She's looking back and looking forward, taking stock of her life, figuring out where she is at 37. I don't know how old you are, but I think we're going to see less and less 'youth music' as she continues to record, assuming she will continue. 'A&W,' 'Peppers,' and 'Fishtail' are clearly attempts at reaching a younger audience, just as, in some ways, 'Dealer' was. I think 'Kintsugi' and 'Fingertips' are more sincere attempts at experimentation and doing something fresh. My guess is that she's heading in the direction of 'The Grants,' Grandfather,' 'Sweet,' and, in terms of singles, songs like 'LTLI' and 'Margaret,' that, like 'Sweet' are general-audience pleasers. I don't think it's you, personally.

I understand that. I know you don't like 'LTLI,' and I also don't connect at all with at least a third of the songs. Even, say, 'Paris, Texas,' I like it a lot, but is there anything to connect with emotionally? It's just a little oddball ditty. I like 'The Grants' and 'Grandfather,' but I don't connect with them emotionally, and even find 'The Grants' a little cloying.

For me, to see it that way would be a stretch, especially after songs like 'LMLYLAW' and 'Arcadia,' in which she sings about leaving Los Angeles. We don't know if such lyrics actually mean anything in her real life or feelings, and, if so, may only be momentary. How many houses does she have in Los Angeles? Several, correct? It's not easy to get up and leave permanently when you've got that kind of luxury real estate. And she may want to move for a few years elsewhere while keeping the Southern California home(s). I certainly don't see taco Truck x VB as a replacement for or an attempt to improve the NFR! version, because nothing will match or replace the original in all its extended glory.

Thanks for asking. I can only give my preferences at the moment, not any kind of objective ranking, and since I don't care a great deal for 'Fingertips,' and I've never warmed, in the least, to the title track, my ranking is bound to be unpopular. I'm not trying to offend anyone's taste. These represent the general interest I have in the separate tracks when playing the record while out walking. I don't care for the mastering on the record at all. Part of the reason I like 'Fishtail' is because it's clearer and crisper in sound to my ears. I'm skipping the interludes. Let the Light In Taco Truck x VB Paris, Texas Sweet (somewhat redundant maybe, but impossible not to like) Grandfather Kintsugi Fishtail The Grants Margaret (it would be so much better without the spoken part, which, in addition to Jack's singing, breaks up the song too much in the second half) Candy Necklace Peppers A&W Fingertips There's A Tunnel Under (I never listen to it)

'Fishtail' has grown on me a lot lately. I feel that 'Taco Truck' had the potential to be the Top Tier Classic Lana, if only it had continued another 3 minutes before segueing into VB. I like 'Margaret,' but would have preferred Lana's speaking part be eliminated. Between it and Jack's verse, the song breaks up too much for my taste.