If Ultraviolence was pop

[PARADIXO 31,620]

 

Now that we know Honeymoon isn't the hit of the year, Ultraviolence looks like it was a huge success. And it was, actually. Its success is very underrated. I mean, it was almost unaccessible for those casual fans who liked Born to Die, and promotion was messy, but it still sold 1 500 000+ copies worldwide (more than people like John Legend, Maroon 5 and Ariana Grande). Also, it got Gold and Platinum certifications in big markets like the U.S., U.K., Australia, Canada, Germany, Brazil and more. Obviously, the hype it got for being "Born to Die's follow-up" was enormous, and that helped a lot...

 

But, what if Honeymoon was Born to Die's follow-up? What if Ultraviolence was pop?

 

What if something like "Hit and Run" or "Live or Die" was the first single instead of the legendary masterpiece "West Coast"?

 

What I want to know is... Was Born to Die's hype what made Ultraviolence relevant and successful? Did its incredible quality help? Could have it been bigger with a poppier sound? And, would you like Lana to release her "first documented official pop album"?

[GangstaBoy 3,930]

Now that we know Honeymoon isn't the hit of the year, Ultraviolence looks like it was a huge success. And it was, actually. Its success is very underrated. I mean, it was almost unaccessible for those casual fans who liked Born to Die, and promotion was messy, but it still sold 1 500 000+ copies worldwide (more than people like John Legend, Maroon 5 and Ariana Grande). Also, it got Gold and Platinum certifications in big markets like the U.S., U.K., Australia, Canada, Germany, Brazil and more. Obviously, the hype it got for being "Born to Die's follow-up" was enormous, and that helped a lot...

 

Honey we already knew it was a big success even before the Honeymoon release wyd

[Mind Melt 10,090]

I personally feel that Ultraviolence sold because of the music. West Coast is one of Lana's best songs of all time, and that includes her unreleased.
I guess you could say that Born to Die helped in the way that it got her name out to the GP, but I really think a lot of people liked the change that Ultraviolence brought, and it opened her up to different audiences.

Honeymoon lacks energy & longevity. When I first got into Lana I had BTD on repeat for MONTHS, the same goes for UV when it released. When HM came out I was playing different artists hours later (opposed to weeks like the previous albums)

 

Honeymoon was underwhelming, and to even some, incredibly boring. The lyrics weren't fantastic and it was sooo slow.

High By the Beach was only okay, but again, not the best. Terrence Loves You was incredibly beautiful, but again, slow.

A decent chunk of the songs on HM sound similar, and she sounds bored throughout the whole album. It's an amazing album though, but I'm already bored with it tbh

[PARADIXO 31,620]

Honey we already knew it was a big success even before the Honeymoon release wyd

 

I know, but some Born to Die-obsessed fans like to believe it was a huge flop

I personally feel that Ultraviolence sold because of the music. West Coast is one of Lana's best songs of all time, and that includes her unreleased.

I guess you could say that Born to Die helped in the way that it got her name out to the GP, but I really think a lot of people liked the change that Ultraviolence brought, and it opened her up to different audiences.

Honeymoon lacks energy & longevity. When I first got into Lana I had BTD on repeat for MONTHS, the same goes for UV when it released. When HM came out I was playing different artists hours later (opposed to weeks like the previous albums)

 

Honeymoon was underwhelming, and to even some, incredibly boring. The lyrics weren't fantastic and it was sooo slow.

High By the Beach was only okay, but again, not the best. Terrence Loves You was incredibly beautiful, but again, slow.

A decent chunk of the songs on HM sound similar, and she sounds incredibly bored throughout the whole album. It's an amazing album though, but I'm already bored with it tbh

 

[letsescapelizzy 672]

interesting what west coast said about listening repeatedly to new albums when they come out. Thats so true.

Some albums have been on replay every day/night for me for weeks/months even, and others fizzle out fast.

Even though i think some of my fav Lana songs are on HM, i also was playing other artists stuff after the first

few listens. this is (for me) a huge indicator if im not salivating and on repeat every day.

 

i think btd fame definately boosted attention and sales for uv, just as it may to a much lesser degree, helped hm sales.

all 3 of these are so different from one another, hard to say what fans of one album style think moving frwd.

its almost like these 3 albums are all for 3 different fans.. guess some of us are exceptions as we genuinely like all the styles, but

I see the fanbase shrinking a hell of alot, whether we want to wishful think or not. thats just life.

[WaitForLife 5,031]

I don't think the hype of BTD was the reason because Paradise wasn't really good I guess.

I wouldn't be a fan anymore when UV would've been pop.

I think HM would've done better if it was the follow-up.

[slang 1,509]

BTD sales/UV sales/HM sales: It's easy for me to think that the negative hype wave attached to LDR in the early days actually propelled her sales, given the idiocy of general criticism, which was so obvious to the GP. UV sales might have ridden the tail of that a bit, but the music (and Auerbach association) probably intrigued the GP (and of course critics were desparately trying to regain credibility from the BTD era). What I most remember about UV is that singles were very strong artistically (but not sales) for pop singles. With HM the singles don't seem as natural, or strong, as "pop" singles, although I guess it would be a film-noir style as opposed to desert rock. It's also weird how higher metacritic scores go with lower sales for LDR, although higher metacritic ratings may generally go with lower sales for artists, idk.

 

LDR reconsidering pop: She should definitely do this both in more conventional and less conventional terms. Her pre-BTD work is worth legitimizing in new releases as well as newer work. If she took a conquer by multiply rather than a conquer by divide approach I'd be happier, but my feeling reflects the fact that I'm more impressed by her diversity, so I consider songs like Noir, Axl Rose Husband, Fordham Road to be just as desireable as "pop" songs as her more reasonable examples, such as Queen of Disaster, Behind Closed Doors, Making Out. 

 

HM songs are similar or she sounds bored: I don't get this as much as other people. On the other hand, I love her May Jailer work, and HM is sort of like May Jailer produced by Beck. Are there people out there that love Beck's Morning Phase (which also seems a little May Jailerish, produced by Beck, of course), but are still underwhelmed by HM? What about people who love Goldfrapp's Tales of Us, which is also in the genre of softer, similar-sounding (within album) dream pop. Just curious. I also don't play all of HM in a single sitting; I play more the two halves (dividing it at BN) or specific song clusters. And the problem I have with playing an artist to the exclusion of other artists (at least for me and with this artist), is that I'm continually assessing LDR (e.g., figuring out why and how much I like her), which implies, for me, listening to other artists (as well as other genres of music) while I listen to her.

 

Lazy lyrics and lyrical topics: I believe this depends on how far you go in considering lyric origins, meaning, or  what "spin" you can put on them. I'm not saying all her lyrics/topics are repairable, but I'm not sure all cited examples of cringeworthy lyrics and topics are always due to laziness. So, for example, the song Religion, might cause people to grate their teeth if they think of her singing about worshipping some guy. However, there is enough ambiguity in the song to suggest she could be singing about her relationship to "religion" and has purposely disguised that fact (so it won't be played on Christian radio?). Would that count as lyrical cleverness, perversion, or both? As another example, say somebody doesn't like the use of random words being thrown out in the chorus of Salvatore "Cacciatore, Limousines, Ciao amore, Soft ice cream", but if that is seen as part of an homage to or an exploitation of another lyricist's technique ("A mullato, an albino, a mosquito, my libido") does that make it any better?  Maybe the use of trigonometry in The Blackest Day is lazy in the sense that a lot of songs use that term, but then again maybe it's just one of those (random?) postmodern references she is prone to. BTW, if you type "trigonometry in lyrics" in google you get as first hit:

 

http://www.lyrics.net/lyrics/trigonometry

 

which will get you a list of songs/artists that use the term in a song, a neat feature of that website. 

[Wild One 3,305]

We all know that if Honeymoon came out last year (instead of UV) it could sell more than UV.

Born To Die def boosted the sales.

I love UV but I really think that Honeymoon is much better..

Ultraviolence sounds like 1 long song, while Honeymoon is full of variety.

If Ultraviolence was a pop album it could flop, the magic of that album was the guitars, the melancholic sound of the album.

I do love UV and it do have few masterpieces, but Honeymoon still tops it.

[GetFree 1,861]

Ultraviolence is her best album. DO NOT TOUCH IT.

 

On the other hand if Honeymoon was Ultraviolence-oriented then we would be talking.

The only song I truly like is Terrence.

 

Ultraviolence was very provocative, it had you engaged throughout the whole record, but with Honeymoon I feel bored, like the singing and lyrics don't have passion, just remember the euphoric rage of Cruel World, how chaotic the chorus sounds like a rollercoaster. The instrumental chorus of Shades of Cool is a beauty bomb of sounds, and I'm not even going to mention West Coast and Brooklyn Baby. The total sadness of Pretty When You Cry, you can feel her broken heart. Honeymoon lacks emotion, passion, (Terrence is great!).

 

With all her past releases I found myself listening on repeat for weeks and weeks, month after month enjoying them, with Honeymoon it hasn't been that way, sadly..

 

I think Ultraviolence gained attention of it's own, I mean of course BTD helped but Ultraviolence was a very polarizing sound and was very praised by critics. She barely do any promo and still made more than million sales, even tho many of the BTD fans did not like it at all.

[LAman 3,220]

Tell you the truth, I believe Lana lost some of her edge on HM, which might be why I'm not too into it. The controversy and campy topics surrounding her songs kind of fuels my fire for her. HM is toned down in all aspects compared to her previous works in my opinion. It's not a horrible album, it's just not as edgy as I'd like it to be. I guess you could say Lana is at her best when she gets a lot of criticism

 

Anyways, I think Ultraviolence is her best album. I have never listened to an album as much as UV, and that may or may not change. But I am very certain that I would not have the same response to HM if it was released instead of UV. People on here are very receptive to Lana's music. We want to love HM as much as UV, but it just doesn't do it for a lot of us.

[letsescapelizzy 672]

yeah, i know what you both mean.. its hard.. i wanted to have HM be an album I would love on repeat for months.

 

After the first thorough listen, i actually put it aside. Then I came back and played many times, but I cannot

play it repeat. It still has a great effect on me, with Swan song, Blackest Day, Freak being my most favorite.

BUT, i do only listen to it now and then..

 

BTD had a few songs that drove me insane. (I totally loved them.)..

that was my first Lana songs, then UV came along, and was so different, but loved at least half the songs as much as btd ones..

then just a few from her unreleased that are great for me.

 

its going to be really really interesting to see what the next Lana album sounds like. (if she does one).  But I don't think the same feelings

I had for the btd and uv era's will ever be regained. I was on a state of high i'm never coming down from with those eras..

[James19709 632]

 

BTD sales/UV sales/HM sales: It's easy for me to think that the negative hype wave attached to LDR in the early days actually propelled her sales, given the idiocy of general criticism, which was so obvious to the GP. UV sales might have ridden the tail of that a bit, but the music (and Auerbach association) probably intrigued the GP (and of course critics were desparately trying to regain credibility from the BTD era). What I most remember about UV is that singles were very strong artistically (but not sales) for pop singles. With HM the singles don't seem as natural, or strong, as "pop" singles, although I guess it would be a film-noir style as opposed to desert rock. It's also weird how higher metacritic scores go with lower sales for LDR, although higher metacritic ratings may generally go with lower sales for artists, idk.

 

LDR reconsidering pop: She should definitely do this both in more conventional and less conventional terms. Her pre-BTD work is worth legitimizing in new releases as well as newer work. If she took a conquer by multiply rather than a conquer by divide approach I'd be happier, but my feeling reflects the fact that I'm more impressed by her diversity, so I consider songs like Noir, Axl Rose Husband, Fordham Road to be just as desireable as "pop" songs as her more reasonable examples, such as Queen of Disaster, Behind Closed Doors, Making Out. 

 

HM songs are similar or she sounds bored: I don't get this as much as other people. On the other hand, I love her May Jailer work, and HM is sort of like May Jailer produced by Beck. Are there people out there that love Beck's Morning Phase (which also seems a little May Jailerish, produced by Beck, of course), but are still underwhelmed by HM? What about people who love Goldfrapp's Tales of Us, which is also in the genre of softer, similar-sounding (within album) dream pop. Just curious. I also don't play all of HM in a single sitting; I play more the two halves (dividing it at BN) or specific song clusters. And the problem I have with playing an artist to the exclusion of other artists (at least for me and with this artist), is that I'm continually assessing LDR (e.g., figuring out why and how much I like her), which implies, for me, listening to other artists (as well as other genres of music) while I listen to her.

 

Lazy lyrics and lyrical topics: I believe this depends on how far you go in considering lyric origins, meaning, or  what "spin" you can put on them. I'm not saying all her lyrics/topics are repairable, but I'm not sure all cited examples of cringeworthy lyrics and topics are always due to laziness. So, for example, the song Religion, might cause people to grate their teeth if they think of her singing about worshipping some guy. However, there is enough ambiguity in the song to suggest she could be singing about her relationship to "religion" and has purposely disguised that fact (so it won't be played on Christian radio?). Would that count as lyrical cleverness, perversion, or both? As another example, say somebody doesn't like the use of random words being thrown out in the chorus of Salvatore "Cacciatore, Limousines, Ciao amore, Soft ice cream", but if that is seen as part of an homage to or an exploitation of another lyricist's technique ("A mullato, an albino, a mosquito, my libido") does that make it any better?  Maybe the use of trigonometry in The Blackest Day is lazy in the sense that a lot of songs use that term, but then again maybe it's just one of those (random?) postmodern references she is prone to. BTW, if you type "trigonometry in lyrics" in google you get as first hit:

 

http://www.lyrics.net/lyrics/trigonometry

 

which will get you a list of songs/artists that use the term in a song, a neat feature of that website. 

 

 

I doubt Behind Closed Doors or Making Out would get a good response if they were actually released.. at all.

[slang 1,509]

 

LDR reconsidering pop: She should definitely do this both in more conventional and less conventional terms. Her pre-BTD work is worth legitimizing in new releases as well as newer work. If she took a conquer by multiply rather than a conquer by divide approach I'd be happier, but my feeling reflects the fact that I'm more impressed by her diversity, so I consider songs like Noir, Axl Rose Husband, Fordham Road to be just as desireable as "pop" songs as her more reasonable examples, such as Queen of Disaster, Behind Closed Doors, Making Out. 

 

 

I doubt Behind Closed Doors or Making Out would get a good response if they were actually released.. at all.

Yes, but on the other hand, you're not *certain* they'd do poorly. Her pop ditties/unreleased/leaks collectively have a certain amount of power and charm, otherwise people wouldn't be making playlists of them. Would they make money? IDK, but those two songs seem above average, at least relative to what's averagely released, imo, and while maybe not the *best* that could be released from her unreleased, they wouldn't be album filler on a "pop" album of hers (again, imo). 

[James19709 632]

Yes, but on the other hand, you're not *certain* they'd do poorly. Her pop ditties/unreleased/leaks collectively have a certain amount of power and charm, otherwise people wouldn't be making playlists of them. Would they make money? IDK, but those two songs seem above average, at least relative to what's averagely released, imo, and while maybe not the *best* that could be released from her unreleased, they wouldn't be album filler on a "pop" album of hers (again, imo). 

 

Making Out would do poorly, I'm sure. Behind Closed Doors MOST LIKELY wouldn't do well either. Meh, I never even looked at how many copies any album sold, the thought of UV being pop is horrendous imo lmao

[Atom Heart 1,928]

Honeymoon is a lot more fun than UV lmao

[Rosalito 131]

I agree with the majority of comments tbh.

 

Honeymoon is very cohesive and quite beautiful and dreamy but overall very tedious to listen to. UV has much more edge and depth to it. UV is heavy and Honeymoon is hollow. The production and lyrics sound rushed, which is weird since UV was actually the rushed album.

 

I honestly think she was much more inspired during UV bc she really had to turn her anger, depression, frustation, etc. into those flawless songs we've got in the end. UV and pop don't go in the same sentence. The rock production and her meeting up with Dan A. is what initially sparked UV or reignited the fire and passion for it as Lana herself put it. Yes, it may have gotten a bit of hype bc it was the follow up to BTD but Lana actually has quite a lot of casual listeners who simply appreciate her as an artist.

 

Honeymoon, I believe, just didn't get ppl interested. Imo that is because High By the Beach and Honeymoon, the two weakest tracks from the album were used as previews. Terrence Loves You is good but very acquired taste and much too slow and acapella-like. Freak, should have been the lead single. It has the sort of dreamy and hypnotic vibe Lana is famous for and it has a much better trap production than HBTB. The song is a total bop but it's not as retarded as HBTB and could ahve actually gotten ppl interested in the album.

[SuperMegaStan 9,667]

the main problem with HM is that neither the title track nor HBTB is a great preview to attract more casual listeners.

 

TLY/MTWBT or even AD are clearly better choices

[GetFree 1,861]

I agree with the majority of comments tbh.

 

Honeymoon is very cohesive and quite beautiful and dreamy but overall very tedious to listen to. UV has much more edge and depth to it. UV is heavy and Honeymoon is hollow. The production and lyrics sound rushed, which is weird since UV was actually the rushed album.

 

I honestly think she was much more inspired during UV bc she really had to turn her anger, depression, frustation, etc. into those flawless songs we've got in the end. UV and pop don't go in the same sentence. The rock production and her meeting up with Dan A. is what initially sparked UV or reignited the fire and passion for it as Lana herself put it. Yes, it may have gotten a bit of hype bc it was the follow up to BTD but Lana actually has quite a lot of casual listeners who simply appreciate her as an artist.

 

Honeymoon, I believe, just didn't get ppl interested. Imo that is because High By the Beach and Honeymoon, the two weakest tracks from the album were used as previews. Terrence Loves You is good but very acquired taste and much too slow and acapella-like. Freak, should have been the lead single. It has the sort of dreamy and hypnotic vibe Lana is famous for and it has a much better trap production than HBTB. The song is a total bop but it's not as retarded as HBTB and could ahve actually gotten ppl interested in the album.

 

Actually yeah, never thought about it, I was devasted when I heard HBTB because I was waiting for the next Born To Die, Ride and West Coast. I was anticipating my next anthem since her lead singles normally are my favorite songs from her, but HBTB was very dull in comparison, like the production sounded neither like BTD or UV and actually felt outdated with the synths. I was sad, the chorus wasn't epic like her past leads and quite lazy tbh. I REALLY liked TLY, but yeah even tho Freak I think still could have gotten better as a song I think release it as a lead would have changed my perception of the album, it sounds more hypnotic and kinda West Coast-ey vibes. But yeah, HBTB lowered my interest definitely. Well not really, I still was dying to hear the album but it was simply not what I expected. Also the album cover didn't help at all either haha nor the Norton Burnt intro. Also the this is the first album were I do NOT like a song, Salvatore is unplayable for me. I hope Lana gets it right now that she's probably kinda working on her next record. I simply want epic choruses with strings and orchestras or smoky guitars it sounds so good on her. Of course I know she gotta evolve as an artist but I think HM was a step back, in general everything felt toned down, lyrically, production wise and emotionally. She needs to ignite The Dull Flame Of Desire (Björk reference )

 

I STILL LOVE YOU FOREVER LANA xoxo