hollywoodgirl

What nobody was waiting for - my kinda review:
 
 

Honeymoon did the unthinkable and topped UV for me but not necessarily because of purely musical reasons, it's because it's dark but it's happy, and it's reclaimed which is the EXACT state I am in right now. I wish I had discovered UV earlier because this record is an absolute jewel especially in its indulgence in self-awareness of the sadness, it's a blunt word but I can't find another one, melancholia maybe. Honeymoon, when I actually really dislike this name in itself compared to the spectacular ultraviolence term, is the incredible and extremely cohesive follow-up to this sadness. It reminds me of earlier this year when I got back into severe depression and I can pinpoint the exact moment I turned back and got up. Honeymoon feels like this. It feels like acknowledging the melancholia, but instead of easily being overwhelmed by it, reclaiming it and controlling it. I don't want to say that I prefer Honeymoon just because it's just out and I love theoretically everything Lana does. I've never related that much to any artist ever and I feel a real connection to the way she approaches her work and mine. I apologize, I don't want to sound pretentious, I am just completely astonished to find myself in front of a work that is the exact depiction of the path my mind took this past year, exactly in the same time than the UV and Honeymoon eras. Whereas in UV there are songs that I basically ignore, in Honeymoon, I find myself respecting the songs that I find to be less spectacular because of how obvious it is that this piece of work is seamless solid and cohesive and makes sense as a whole, in maybe a much less raw and raspy way than UV, but in a polished assurance, and full of extreme and pure emotion. 
 
tl;dr: Honeymoon is the best album ever made in my humble opinion, but not necessarily musically.

I've only listened to honeymoon, TLY, MTWBT, HBTB and Salavatore (because it was on the radio). It's so fun seeing everyone freaking out.

I just had a thought, I would love (This might be a unpopular opinion), but would absolutely love to hear Hollywood recorded on this album,
perhaps with a few instrument changes to the beat/chorus.. but the same song all in all.. ..
..for me it would fit the vibe of HBTB and HM

So you know how Lana has said that in a lot of her songs (like West Coast and Video Games, for example) one portion of the song is based on reality and the other is focused around her inner fantasies… well, I think Honeymoon is another one of those songs...
 
The verses seem to be about reality - her experiences with her lover have a slower instrumentation which could symbolise how reality isn't as grand or exciting as her fantasies. The instrumental intensifies into the chorus, where she sings about a 'honeymoon' with her lover, most likely what she envisions within her head, hence the more complex instrumentation. It's quite fitting the 'dark blue' lines are right before the second verse kicks in, as it shows Lana sliding back into the reality that is life with her neglectful lover.
 
The bridge is almost an amalgamation of reality and fantasy - describing realistic qualities of her lover through deep imagery. Lana then slips back into the chorus again for the last time, which has a very dreamy sound, then starts singing the 'dreaming away your life' lines, which to me, indicates that she is finally acknowledging that she is torn between reality and the world inside her head. The scatting towards the end is a symbol of Lana getting lost within her dreams. She attempts to soften the problems she encounters with her lover by escaping to a world of her own inside her mind, where they are both happy and untroubled, however, deep inside of herself she is aware that dreams do not last forever - she is 'dreaming AWAY' her life. Although she knows that her mindset is detrimental, she can't help but turn back to it every time she remembers that things are not as smooth with her boyfriend as she wishes and dreams about. Honeymoon isn't just a song about being hopelessly in love with a bad boy, it's much more than that - it's Lana explaining how she has created a world within her head she can escape to when no other coping mechanism is enabling her to get by.
 
Anyway, that's just a quick explanation of the summary I've come to after having Honeymoon on repeat non-stop since it came out. Please expand on this if you have any of your own ideas

I really like Guns & Roses. The verses and bridge hit so hard. It's the chorus that decreases the quality of the song.

For an artist as talented as Barrie, it must be frustrating to continue to live in the shadow of a more famous ex while simultaneously dealing with the break-up, that much of the interest in your music is based on music made with your ex, and to be inundated with messages more interested in your ex than you.
 
From what we've heard from his album so far, I get the sense that a lot of it was inspired by his relationship with Lana. And from what we've seen on his social media accounts, he doesn't seem to be handling the end of that relationship particularly well. It wouldn't surprise me-- and I wouldn't really blame him-- if he decided he no longer wanted to release "Riverside", or perhaps even the album at all, as it was originally conceived. Maybe "Hate" is more what he's feeling right now.

lana's mere existence gives me hope in humanity. but her prominence in society has also made me really cynical about the way many (if not most) people think 
 
like honestly it went from 'soulless whore with a rich daddy' (2012) ---> 'calculating she-demon lacking in any true personality' (2015) 
 
people will always find some kind of false justification just to make themselves feel more whole 
 
and kim gordon is undeniably talented, which makes this particularly depressing 

She's protective of Frances Cobain, ergo she completely trashes Courtney Love, the girl's fucking mother, and implies she's mentally ill?
The bigger question should be why is this repugnant woman still talking?
She got the attention she wanted for her book, idiots everywhere are applauding her for her "wit" in suggesting a young woman kill herself, and she did all of it without getting half the public backlash Lana gets for showing up to an interview without a forced pearly smile.
Love how just a few days ago she was smugly retweeting Lana fans like their expressions of disgust were the height of hilarity now she's awkwardly trying to dig herself out of a hole. Also this was NOT a cat fight, Lana took no part in this. This was one feeble older woman viciously slandering a harmless 29 year old younger woman (whom she'd never even met) and disguising it as feminist commentary.

Kim should still take responsibility for the early draft of the quote. It got online, Lana Del Rey definetly has seen it or heard about it by this point, Kim needs to be an adult and apologise.
 
At least in the modified paragraph we can take her arguments seriously. I still disagree though. What troubles me is that Kim perpetuates the mentality that everything Del Rey says and does is an act, belittling her pain and experiences. Of course there's no denying that she incorporates her fantasies into her writing, but it's dangerous to assume that Lana keeps this "persona" on 24/7 and ignore her genuine moments of hardship as if she's putting it on in keeping with her image. I've seen poolside, she's not that great an actress.
Kim also tries to convince us Lana doesn't understand feminism. Lana never said she wasn't a feminist, the most she said was that she wasn't interested in discussing the subject and she even described her own feminist ideals. But these days that's all it takes to anger the public, who exaggerate her words to make her seem like some pathetic idiot who doesn't care about her own rights, which was the exact opposite of what Lana said.
 
I'm not saying Lana Del Rey is suicidal, but she's clearly unhappy, or at least was at the time of the Guardian interview. Can you imagine how frustrating it must be for people to constantly misconstrue everything you say or do as a planned publicity stunt to fit your gimick? For moments of genuine passion or desperation to be scrutinised so harshly and calculatingly by the media? Kim's been in the limelight for a long time, she should be more mature and understanding than that. She should be supporting Lana, not trying to depict Lana as a bad feminist. Kim may have removed the harshest bite from her words, but she's still slut shaming Lana for the lifestyle she depicts in her art, most importantly the ride video, which makes no sense as men have lived this way for decades. Maybe it's not the right lifestyle for for some women but if others choose to live that way then why would she care? Lana Del Rey proves that women can be romantic without being airheads who desperately depend on a man. She gives a voice to important feminist issues that aren't being discussed by anyone else (domestic abuse, the media's discrimination against women) and that's exactly the point. There are more important issues in feminism than Lana Del Rey. It's insulting, it's inexcusable, and above all it's upsetting that today trashing women who make different lifestyle choices is considered feminism.

...What is her point tho? Is she trying to infer that Lana's belief that women should be allowed to do whatever they want (i.e anything men have been legally permitted to do for many centuries more) is not a part of feminist values?
I hate how people seem to translate Lana's statements of disinterest with feminism as an utter aversion to the feminist movement. She obviously should have answered with a polite nod like all pretty little female celebrities have to, but fuck all she said was that when people bring feminism up in conversation she doesn't care, she's more interested in space travel. SURE, IT'S KIND OF A DUMB ANSWER BUT LANA SAID HERSELF THAT SHE DIDN'T HAVE MUCH TO SAY ON THE MATTER. What's really sexist about all this is that the media forces Lana to speak on behalf of her gender and scrutinise her as a woman, and fuck to anyone that took this statement as a denouncement of feminism she gave her own, entirely accurate, description of a feminist, Lana clearly DOES understand what a feminist is because I'm pretty sure all women agree that feminism is about equalising rights between both sexes, i.e a woman who feels free to do whatever she wants.
Anyway, what the fuck does this have to do with Lana's "glamourisation" of death?
 
Let's just get this clear, the Lana that sings about her pain and alludes to Marilyn and Kurt Cobain in her music is NOT the same Lana that told the guardian she wished she was dead.
 
When Lana sings about death in her songs, we know it's her being overdramatic, it doesn't count as glamourisation because these songs aren't glamorous, they're fucking sad. Meanwhile, when Lana's on interview, after having just released her latest album, and leaving her boyfriend, and inbetween tours and shows on a tight schedule, you'd expect her not to feel so great. Cut the girl some mother fucking slack. And this senile old woman thinks she can get away with such blatant hypocrisy? She throws shade at Lana for "glamourising death" then advises Lana to kill herself? What an insightful, witty, observent GO FUCK YOURSELF.
 
Also based on how Lana responded to being put on the worst dressed list imagine how she'd react if she met this washed up cunt
 
Not gonna pretend I actually know who this bitch is tho.
Oh boy, she was big two decades ago? Well jeez do I feel left out, nah but for real let this dry-cunted asshole moan while she still has her fucking teeth

motel 6.

She gained weight for sure. But as long as she stays healthy there's nothing wrong with that. She looks great. I think it's really encouraging that she's so beautiful without being stick thin. What kind of image does it send out if we would rather see border line bulimic half witted twenty two year olds on our magazines than intelligent, healthy women who don't feel pressured to fit the public's demented perception of beauty? I wouldn't care if she gained 10 stone over the next few years anyway, she has enough talent to make up for a body the size of an elephant, her gorgeous face is just a cool bonus to her personality.

I think that she likes UV and prefers the wider creative control she had over it that she didn't really have with BtD, but she hasn't /done/ anything with it because it is such a sad, melancholic album. It's full of dark stuff and I think she wants to move on from it & be happy.

She just said she was afraid UV would be forgotten "like all great things." 
She's the last person to sell-out for sales. Most artists would have followed up BTD with mainstream pop, but she released an alternative rock album. She does what is genuine to her and you should be more appreciative of that.
 
Don't be sad, though. You'll always have Mariah around to release the generic crap that you love so much.

I had forgotten to visit this forum from time to time, and because I have no life, I read all 41 pages this morning.
 
I deserve a medal (and a sneak peek of Honeymoon).

Didn't lana once said in an interview that she doens't mean/want to explain her music. That if people don't get it they just don't get it. She put her all in, and for her that's it. That is what she wants to put out. She doens't want to explain things or talk about lyrics. She puts out what she intends too put out. She talks to her audience with her music.

No deluxe in Lana's world means no Without You, no Black Beauty, no Florida Kilos, no Flipside
 
I'll take all the messy editions thx

The great thing about Lana is that all her music sounds like she made it. Her aesthetic is always there on her songs so no matter who she works with or what direction she goes in it will still sound like a Lana song. Obviously we like some songs better than others, but its great that we don't have to worry about her music changing too much.

here's the thing with lana -- you can't expect there to always be meaning behind what she writes. not meaning that you can connect with personally, at least. everything she writes is personal and internal and so a lot of it might come off as useless or opaque at best. if you're a ~*~ true ~*~ fan though (whatever that means) you should be able to disregard the shitty recycled trope here and there or you can just connect it to a larger piece of the puzzle (the puzzle being her as an artist, as a character, as an actual human being). maybe the above lyrics don't say much in terms of broad all encompassing meta / psychosocial philosophy or whatever it is you're looking for, but they still communicate aspects of her true self (and her internal world), whether intentional or not. the lyrics you quoted still fall in line with the rest of her work and retain a certain consistency you'd expect from a true artist. you should appreciate that at the very least
 
i.e "get us while we're hot" --> while she's still "young and beautiful" and "shine(s) from words but not from beauty"
she's known to have an affinity for diamonds and the color blue and beaches and she writes about how she 'shines like lightning', etc. 'glimmering', 'bright blue ripples' all conjure up images of shiny, pretty, bluish things. she's obviously an extremely visual person so why not re-use some words that not only roll off the tongue but draw out images that she appreciates? its kind of tired at times but its still very lana
 
also, "watching me" in the swimming pool and "watching me" get undressed says a lot about her personality and her histrionic tendencies. you can go off on some tangent here about the male gaze and the paradoxical superficiality of those lines (which juxtapose the depth that's present in her other songs, etc). whatever
 
"elvis" and "marilyn" are obviously figures of classic americana. the line suggests that they've raised her and that they've also nurtured her aesthetic / artistic appreciations like surrogates while jesus (who may or may not actually exist) remains her 'bestest' friend (and maybe even her only one, during certain periods in her life). then she goes on to say "we don't need nobody, cause we got eachother" ... "or at least i pretend". that's kind of fucking sad. it's like she's perpetually lonesome and doesn't have anyone else but herself and her own imagination. which suggests (on a larger scale) that she loves to create (or at the very least, finds solace in) worlds of her own; worlds inside her head. recently we've started to wonder if any of the men or any of the experiences she's written about are even real, or if its all just pure fiction. and i didn't even connect those thoughts with that particular line until now. and it 100% justifies the james franco quote:
 
 
do you see what i mean? despite seeming innocuous and possibly even superficial, everything is still connected back to her internal self, somehow. and new music will always give you another look into her mind and might even forge a newfound connection with something she's already written in the past. there's always consistency and there's always truth (internal, though not always external). that's all that matters when it comes to art; staying true to your intuitions. so toss your haughty expectations in the trash and just appreciate her for being her (and relentlessly so)
 
the fact that we're even having this discussion and dissecting these ~meaningless~ lyrics actually attaches meaning to them, i think. so i hope you feel fulfilled lmao

Didn't lana once said in an interview that she doens't mean/want to explain her music. That if people don't get it they just don't get it. She put her all in, and for her that's it. That is what she wants to put out. She doens't want to explain things or talk about lyrics. She puts out what she intends too put out. She talks to her audience with her music.

This makes sense, like I get that she would want to let the music do the talking and let people come up with their own thoughts on the song. Personally I do enjoy when an artist explains the song though because sometimes you listen to the song in a whole new light. I love Lana's visuals though as they often enhance the message in her songs.

I don't think there's anything more important about a Lana era than the music itself, period. But seriously, works of art shouldn't have to be explained by their artists on stage or something. Art is meant to be studied and through that the meaning will be revealed. That's what is so interesting about almost every form of art whether it's literature, music, or visual. It'd be boring if she explained everything perfectly. Where would be the mystique, the star power, or the elusiveness that makes Lana what she is? You completely don't understand who and what she is as an artist and it makes me feel like you're mentally lazy for wanting her to spell everything out for you so you can "get" it. That's what makes me think you're just not going to last as a fan of hers. Might as well give it up now. 
 
And I'm not saying I WANT her to release the album and vanish. But I'm merely saying she completely has the option to, just like any other artist. She isn't our barbie doll to play dress up with and to make dance and sing whenever we want to. Leave that for someone like Katy Perry who willingly puts herself in that kind of position. But the option to release something and not have to shove it into people's faces through performances and interviews IS a legitimate way to do things. Look at Prince, Kate Bush, Bjork, David Bowie... None of them feel the need to do all that. It'd be perfectly fine if they did, but they don't. I just don't understand why you have to keep pushing so hard for her to do anything other than make music. She's said before that that's what she enjoys doing: writing and making the music itself. 
 
 
If you are just so fed up with the way Lana does things then I suggest you give up on her. Artists generally become even more reclusive with age, so BTD may have been the most outgoing Lana you'll ever get. Enjoy the MUSIC!!!

Your argument doesn't make much sense to me. Not being able to enjoy a song without it being performed live is kind of ridiculous. There are many artists out there that only release their music without going on as many TV shows as possible or even touring. Except Lana still does tour, so you have live versions of the songs lol. It doesn't reflect how much an artist cares about their music when they don't "promote" it. You're all stuck in stan world/shallow logic. I'm not saying you aren't real fans, but you obviously just said you can't enjoy her music or artistry without some type of promo. Speaks for itself.
 
 Just because Lana isn't playing every instrument on her records doesn't mean she isn't a musician. Writing good melodies, lyrics, and singing all take incredible talent. So yes, enjoy the music.

Are you referring to me?
For one thing, the whole reason this argument started was when you insisted UV was "Not that great of an album"
In a thread not at all related to UV
 
You said this after @@ilovetati said something about wishing for an era with the musical style of UV with the aesthetic style of BTD (big budget videos, etc.)
In short, you took a post both relevant to the thread's subject and respectful of all other opinions, and replied with a rude statement about something entirely subjective.
 
I was offended by your insinuation that an album I liked was bad, especially considering the inappropriate venue you choose to express this opinion (this is the HONEYMOON thread)
And so I replied by saying that as someone that likes that LP I thought your post was annoying and irrelevant. I was hoping that the discussion would end there. Apparently you're too stubborn to admit that as the individual that instigated this irrelevant discussion it's your responsibility to acknowledge what you said was offensive and unnecessary.
 
Surprisingly enough, I'm a fan of BTD too, I was a member of this forum before UV came out, I just prefer UV because I find it a more consistent record. I didn't feel the need to mention my opinion in this thread until you started spouting off about how UV was a bad album. In the context of this thread this makes as much sense as me mentioning my aversion to Lady GaGa. More then that, it's like me saying that Lady GaGa is a bad artist and that her music is tasteless when I'm aware there are many fans of her music reading this thread right now.
 
I like UV, you prefer BTD. THIS IS THE HONEYMOON THREAD