Honeymoon Sales

[graham4anything 2,859]

it really is simple economics.

Lana comes out far ahead financially, and then by releasing 5 albums in 5 years does it five times over an artist who releases a new album once every five years and has less profit.

 

All the publicity anyhow comes in the first week. After that no one pays attentions as there is a new #1 most weeks now in America.

 

It's bullshit and just trolling for someone to call it a failure

 

Meanwhile as an example- Katy Perry (whom Leaked seems have as the favorite) has released just 4 albums in 14 years since being in the business. 3 in her current inclination in 2008 2011 and 2013

 

According to wiki-

Teenage dream had 3 million HOWEVER- Prism had only 1.65....Seems to me Katy Perry lost about 45 percent of her fanbase going by the same logic leaked vision is using.

Seems a few thousand less for Lana between Ultraviolence & Honeymoon, in a year when sales are dreadfully down in the USA, as opposed to a 45% drop by Katy in years when sales were not on a downswing

shows (and Katy would go to the opening of an envelope if it helps publicity machine go on.)

Feel free Katy to do as one wants, but that is one steep drop IMHO and Katy is on the 24/7/365 going for #1 single bandwagon

And her singles the last 2 1/2 years have not done nearly as well as those prior (meaning at this point, if I were a record company for Katy, I would be worried that her time has passed.)

Not negativity, just looking at the raw numbers on Wikipedia in the USA.

 

I would take the viability of Lana's future output over any artist'd'jour in the world today. We can see a decade from now who is correct.

I would bet Lana and out of all the other artists, I would say that  Gaga also will be standing tall too.

 

anyhow-

 

Me, I wouldn't in a million years go on a Katy board, or on a Katy song on youtube and post negative crap on her.

Why would I waste my time.

 

I want to hear Lana, not put down another artist on that artist site. This is suppose to be a support for -Lana board.

[evilentity 13,303]

This is suppose to be a support for -Lana board.

No it's not. I couldn't disagree with this more.

 

Mindless praise isn't anyone's job. We're not her PR team. This is a discussion forum for discussing opinions about Lana and her work, both positive and negative.

 

I happen to disagree with the basis of @@leaked_version's criticisms, but he has every right to voice them.

[joshuasean2900 281]

The only reason we consider HM (and UV to some extent) a flop is because of the success of BtD. If Lana hadn't had so much hype surrounding her back in 2012, BtD wouldn't have had so much success. We all know that, it's pretty much fact in the Lana community. She just doesn't have that hype surrounding her any more, so we can't expect her to be in the BB200 in 3 years' time with HM. There was something about Video Games that captivated audiences in late 2011 and HbtB just can't replicate that with its recycled 2009 cheap trap beat.

It's not like Lana splashed millions on the production/promotion of any of her releases, so we can't expect her to be losing money. Lana knows that she's not going to appeal to the masses and, although a little promotion would help sales, she isn't made to sell mass records. She's probably already made a profit on HM, so it's all good for her. It's only considered a flop because it's sold less than we expected it to and, for some reason, we expected it to sell copies out of the stratosphere.

[leaked_version 10,498]

Except studying doesn't really cost anything. A lot of the kind of promotion you're talking about does. It's an investment proposition. How much of a return you get for how much of an investment. I can very easily imagine a hypothetical scenario where Lana might have sold more copies of an album-- enough not to be a "flop" by your standards-- but got there by spending so much on promotion that she actually made less money on it. How much is spent on production and promotion and such absolutely does matter. Take ARTPOP for example. While I think reports of ARTPOP being a commercial "flop" were exaggerated-- it was hugely successful in absolute terms-- to the extent that it was a flop, it was only a flop in the sense that it failed to live up to the impossible standard of matching the unsustainable sales success of her previous albums, the label made too much physical product based on overly optimistic projections, and they were rumored to have spent a shitload on promo. Lana, likewise, remains hugely successful in absolute terms, but will likely never match the commercial success of BTD. But I don't think her label has any illusions about that at this point and I don't think they're overspending on production or promotion. I think she'll be just fine.

 

Sure, but I just don't think the sales she's doing place her in any danger of not covering those costs. I don't think Lana spent all that much making either of the last two albums. I think you're being extremely alarmist.

 

I mean, we have like a hundred songs this girl recorded that she sold zero copies of. Zero. And now that she's selling hundreds of thousands of albums you think that's not enough for her to be able to keep fucking doing what she's fucking doing? Gimme a break.

It's not simple as that and studying does cost money. Even if it only costs time, time is also money in business.

 

Because you brought up ARTPOP , it was simply a bad record even for Gags standards. I am known for really hating her, however, her previous records had some redeeming qualities while that particular album had none. It was generic EDM music, that sounded incredibly outdated, overpaced and with horrible lyrics thrown on top of it. UV in comparison was an outstanding release in 2014. Way better lyrics, better production and an overall way better album, not just by looking at it as a fan. And Lana had all the hype from BTD and she just gave up on the album and basically trolled everyone. While there was little reason to heavy promote the album, more exposure with little effort would have brought better results.  Really, just a little bit of minimal effort and vision.

 

And Artpop's failure had little to do with Interscope overestimating it. She roughly sold 2 million copies ww. It was a huge commercial flop. Let's not get that twisted. Gaga is an artist that is out there to sell 4-4.5 million copies with each album and having huge tours. She failed. Her brand was seriously damaged and still is. It was already damaged during BTW which also made some room for a new artist like Lana who came out as antidote to Gaga and her empowerment anthems.

 

The difference between Gaga and Lana is that Gaga tried. She co-financed some events and the last video for G.U.Y. to offer her fans something. Lana realises that the album is not a super success and crawls under a rock. Lana's boyfriend is a music video director and you tell me that the best they could do to give a great song like Ultraviolence was an iPhone video? Give me a break.

All I am saying is that going from 5.2 million (Paradise EP excluded and 5.9 million Paradise included) to 1.4 million to under a million with HM is a huge decline within 3.5 years. And it leaves room for worries.

 

I am still shocked that some try to make a point that I dislike Lana or even want her to fail. I am just trying to find answers, Maybe touring is the key for her. She should really announce a world tour soon and bring up her background singers and the band. Give herself some room to try out new things. It would also debunk the accusations she is a medicore live act. She was actually stunning at The Endless Summer Tour

[American Money 681]

I think a big problem is that US is now Lana's biggest market, which basically just enables her to promote even less. Back during BTD days when the US "hated" her due the SNL incident (she still had a reasonably large fanbase) while Europe and the rest of the world loved her, she was basically forced to travel the world and promote, making her an international artist (a good thing.) But now she has reached her vision of "Americana" or whatever. Once the US started to care for her music more, it's like she started caring less, which resulted in her only going on a small tour through the U.S. this year. Of course when she started putting the most of her extremely low amount of attention in promoting towards the U.S., the rest of world began to care less.

 

 

Honestly, if she doesn't like the performance of HM, that's her own fault. If she wants her music to do better and be recognized more, she need to act like she cares and is willing to try to promote, and she needs to make music that is more appealing. Until she cares about that then oh well

[evilentity 13,303]

she just gave up on the album and basically trolled everyone.

Several music videos, a bunch of interviews, and a tour in support of Ultraviolence was "trolling" us? Seriously? You have to be a pretty thirsty entitled fan to have that perspective. Honestly, I think you're much closer to trolling everyone than Lana ever was.

 

And Artpop's failure had little to do with Interscope overestimating it. She roughly sold 2 million copies ww. It was a huge commercial flop. Let's not get that twisted. Gaga is an artist that is out there to sell 4-4.5 million copies with each album and having huge tours. She failed.

If there's anything twisted here, it's the idea that selling 2 million copies worldwide can be considered a huge commercial flop (with the possible exception of overspending), I don't care who you are. There's hardly any artist that can sustain multi-million sale figures throughout their career. It's silly to call that "flopping" rather than the natural trajectory of a career. By your logic, any artist that has a world-beating breakout album is doomed to "flop" simply because they inevitably won't be able to endlessly reproduce sales at that level every time. Man, The Wall is such a flop because it sold way less than Dark Side. Bad was such a flop because it's no Thriller. Again, the albums we're talking about can only be considered "flops" if you have unrealistic expectations.

 

All I am saying is that going from 5.2 million (Paradise EP excluded and 5.9 million Paradise included) to 1.4 million to under a million with HM is a huge decline within 3.5 years. And it leaves room for worries.

That's a somewhat selective interpretation of those figures. Let's face it, despite being called an EP, Paradise was essentially an album. Given that, another reading of these numbers is that they are back up a bit with UV and HM after a steep decline with Paradise from an unlikely to be repeated debut. Again, it's unrealistic to expect her to sell multi-millions even if she did it once. Selling in the neighborhood of a million is still pretty damn good. Certainly not "flopping" at least.

[Stargirl 13,348]

I think a big problem is that US is now Lana's biggest market, which basically just enables her to promote even less. Back during BTD days when the US "hated" her due the SNL incident (she still had a reasonably large fanbase) while Europe and the rest of the world loved her, she was basically forced to travel the world and promote, making her an international artist (a good thing.) But now she has reached her vision of "Americana" or whatever. Once the US started to care for her music more, it's like she started caring less, which resulted in her only going on a small tour through the U.S. this year. Of course when she started putting the most of her extremely low amount of attention in promoting towards the U.S., the rest of world began to care less. Honestly, if she doesn't like the performance of HM, that's her own fault. If she wants her music to do better and be recognized more, she need to act like she cares and is willing to try to promote, and she needs to make music that is more appealing. Until she cares about that then oh well

i am the new americana

i don't promote cos i don't wanna

[joshuasean2900 281]

@@evilentity slaying with so many relevant points 

[leaked_version 10,498]

Several music videos, a bunch of interviews, and a tour in support of Ultraviolence was "trolling" us? Seriously? You have to be a pretty thirsty entitled fan to have that perspective. Honestly, I think you're much closer to trolling everyone than Lana ever was.

 

If there's anything twisted here, it's the idea that selling 2 million copies worldwide can be considered a huge commercial flop (with the possible exception of overspending), I don't care who you are. There's hardly any artist that can sustain multi-million sale figures throughout their career. It's silly to call that "flopping" rather than the natural trajectory of a career. By your logic, any artist that has a world-beating breakout album is doomed to "flop" simply because they inevitably won't be able to endlessly reproduce sales at that level every time. Man, The Wall is such a flop because it sold way less than Dark Side. Bad was such a flop because it's no Thriller. Again, the albums we're talking about can only be considered "flops" if you have unrealistic expectations.

 

That's a somewhat selective interpretation of those figures. Let's face it, despite being called an EP, Paradise was essentially an album. Given that, another reading of these numbers is that they are back up a bit with UV and HM after a steep decline with Paradise from an unlikely to be repeated debut. Again, it's unrealistic to expect her to sell multi-millions even if she did it once. Selling in the neighborhood of a million is still pretty damn good. Certainly not "flopping" at least.

Except that the Paradise EP was only sold in selected markets and that it was also available in the same markets as BTD - The Paradise Edition and EP's aren't a huge seller anymore. And the interviews she gave for UV were more damaging than anything else. I am pretty sure that her infamous quote "I wish I was dead already" rubbed many people the wrong way, especially in the UK since it was for The Guardian or that she completly out of the blue threw out an interviewer out of her house or that she cancelled gigs and appareances for no reason. Srsly, I could go on and discuss that with you for days and weeks, but it would not change your mind.

 

And selling 2 million albums for an artist like Gaga who was the biggest popstar at that time, is a commercial disaster. There is no way to spin it how you want it. It was a flop. Even Gaga fans admit it.

 

However, I am pretty done with this discussion. Y'all simply fail to see that the music business is a business, but also a priviledge. Many artists would kill to be in a position she was and even in a postion where she is now and do way more than she does,

 

@@evilentity: Oh, one thing dear that I just caught: when I troll, I am quite good at it actually and I know when I do it. 

So, when you try to come for me or disapprove what I am saying, you better step up your game than just calling me a troll. I understand way more about this topic than you. Better luck next time! 

[naachoboy 7,977]

she outsold Revival first week sales and Confidents projected sales, she also outsold Halsey...but by like 5 thousand 

I dont care about first week sales, im talking about chart runs and longevity 

Didn't she did slightly better than Halsey and now Selena and maybe Demi ( first week sales)?

 

- Lana ( 105 pure sales)

- Halsey ( 97k pure sales)

- Selena ( 86k pure sales)*not sure about this one but that's the number I saw somewhere

 

It's not a competition but Lana did well. Her problem ( since Paradise) is longevity because she drops an album and then forget about it.

I said she IS doing, not that she did in the first week of sales. Thats different. 

[letsescapelizzy 672]

No it's not. I couldn't disagree with this more.

 

Mindless praise isn't anyone's job. We're not her PR team. This is a discussion forum for discussing opinions about Lana and her work, both positive and negative.

 

well said, exactly.

 

 Y'all simply fail to see that the music business is a business, but also a priviledge. Many artists would kill to be in a position she was and even in a postion where she is now and do way more than she does,

Exactly, so the privlidge often gets taken away. Its happened to so many artists over the years. Business is Music and vice versa..

[intensely 48]

@@evilentity slaying with so many relevant points 

You too, tbh!

 

leaked_version I agree that Lana fucked herself up with the I wish I was dead comments...I've made the same comments before but flouncing over this because none of us understand the music business? Over and over you conflate your enjoyment or lack of enjoyment of an album with sales...and yes I read BTD is not your fave. You did it again with ARTpop...that album was not a flop. You extrapolate from the most basic facts to make wild inferences. Has Lana been dropped from her record deal? Does she want to get out of it? There are indie faves who have massive exposure, do much more promo than Lana and still have low first week sales - they're still doing great and have contracts. She tours every year and we don't know what's coming next. Chill.

[yourboy 3,248]

That moment when some fans are busy buying promo CDs and stuff not actual official albums

0_0 even saw a person with TPE and UV and shit ton of promos

REALLY

[leaked_version 10,498]

You too, tbh!

 

leaked_version I agree that Lana fucked herself up with the I wish I was dead comments...I've made the same comments before but flouncing over this because none of us understand the music business? Over and over you conflate your enjoyment or lack of enjoyment of an album with sales...and yes I read BTD is not your fave. You did it again with ARTpop...that album was not a flop. You extrapolate from the most basic facts to make wild inferences. Has Lana been dropped from her record deal? Does she want to get out of it? There are indie faves who have massive exposure, do much more promo than Lana and still have low first week sales - they're still doing great and have contracts. She tours every year and we don't know what's coming next. Chill.

Right. I stan Azealia. She is the biggest seller right now next to Adele. My taste in music is SO affected by sales.

[letsescapelizzy 672]

someone mentioned Katy awhile ago.. excuse me, but she is the only artist to get 5,!  #1 top singles from one album. ( a few years ago)

not even the Beatles, Elvis Presley, or Madonna have done that. Check your facts before posting false info, whomever it was.. lol..

 

not sure if Taylor has beaten that record yet, i think she is close..

 

anyway, not important any of that, i'm very happy for Katy's and Taylor's success and anyone else really, but its apples and oranges.

Lana is completely different from that scene, and successful in her way. I never compare artists, its pointless really.

[letsescapelizzy 672]

my taste in music is 100% purely driven by my ears. i don't care if its in a jam studio in a basement or a stadium.

Of course the energy of thousands screaming and millions buying records does influence a little.. but i still need to love the

music first..

[PARADIXO 31,607]

Still on the Argentine charts   (8 - 6 - 12)

[letsescapelizzy 672]

.. so sales of HM stand currently at 351k.. world wide.

will it make at least 500k by years end?

[graham4anything 2,859]

Response to 155-

Elvis and Elton and the Beatles never released 5 songs from the same album

Elton in fact released 3 albums in a year some years, and only had 1 single off Captain Fantastic.

The Beatles never released any single at all from Sgt. Pepper's and were only around 6 years as a group (and then each member sporatically released new albums).

Michael Jackson released a lot of singles, but then, it took him forever to release new music

 

Meanwhile Adele is now copying the opening and closing of Video Games for her first new single off her first album in how many years? (hello...hello...hello...)(note-that is not a negative, that is just

how Adele does things, but that is not for me.

Me, I would prefer new material every year over 1 mega selling album every four or five years.

After all, it is me that is listening to it and once an album is out, imagine people here on some of the other artists sites (like Adele) saying "I'm bored, when is she doing anything, year after year nothing"

getting into Kate Bush territory (and Lana has far outsold Kate Bush in the USA both album and singles wise anyhow).

[letsescapelizzy 672]

any predictions for HM sales by years end? ( 2 months).

351K WW as is stands now.. anyone? educated guesses preferred..