Ride Headdress Controversey

[NamiraWilhelm 5,050]

I knew those bored/pressed social justice majors on Twitter and Tumblr would go after her for wearing that. Most of them aren't even from the groups they claim to get offended on behalf of, which makes them super tiring IMO.

 

I'm glad she's able to defend herself by explaining that it has personal significance to her, but those types need to realize that individualized "culture" is dead in our globalized society and the future is just one big blender. All modern art is appropriation, especially in the post-internet age.

 

I agree, though its sad. I'd much rather multiculturism work so we can retain individual cultures but its clear it just doesn't, integration seems the only way... the alternative is people learning to stfu, but given what we see now and in thousands of years of history, its a lost cause.

[NamiraWilhelm 5,050]

I just saw its tags

 

Tagged as: #indian war bonnet thing #lana del ray #racism

 

Now thats offensive!

[Sitar 22,218]

#LanaDelReycist

[NamiraWilhelm 5,050]

edit: wrong thread

[Fluorine 162]

But this is sad. Belonging to a small culture I refuse to be swallowed up by some global blender. Individuality is what makes different cultures so fascinating. I am not attacking Lana for wearing the headdress because I sincerely believe that she meant no offense but I can understand people wanting to keep some elements of their culture private. Maybe the melting is inevitable in the future but this doesn't mean that everybody has to calmly accept it.

 

I don't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to be inspired by their own heritage. That makes for great art, too --- look at Lana's Americana obsession! Instead, I was taking issue with the stance that they should be limited to their own cultures when finding artistic inspiration, something that is quickly becoming impossible as the world globalizes.

 

For example, when a Japanese singer decides to make an R&B record, isn't that technically "cultural appropriation?" Hardly anyone would say so (I think), but that's where this line of thinking eventually ends up. So much of art is cultural theft, and I'm personally against telling people what "should" or "shouldn't" be used in art just because it may not be considered politically correct by everyone.

 

Besides, things like caricatures and stereotypes are far more damaging than someone from one culture borrowing from another because they find beauty in it, as Lana has done here. This creates a positive association, not a negative one.

[Monicker 3,035]

...those types need to realize that individualized "culture" is dead in our globalized society and the future is just one big blender. All modern art is appropriation, especially in the post-internet age.

 

Is that what they need to realize? I take it you don't think this is a very limited, typically American-white-privileged view, right? You really think that what you experience on your youtube screen at home is fully representative of the multitude of cultures, values, traditions, ways of living, creeds, politics, economic systems, art, etc. that exist AROUND THE WORLD? Maybe in your reality tunnel culture is dead and "we" live in one, big bubble of sameness, but that certainly doesn't warrant the kind of misinformed, sweeping generalizations you've made here. Were you trying to make an incendiary and sensationalistic statement or is it just ignorance? You've traveled the world and seen the homogenization of culture in every pocket of the globe? You've fully investigated and exhausted all modern art, huh? You've only ever met people with experiences similar to yours? Imagine ANYONE else of ANY culture besides yours making the same presumptuous statements you've made here.

[ednafrau 836]

perhaps i'm wrong, but i interpreted that fluorine meant that this type of appropriation that strips things of their true meaning is rampant in this tumblr day and age, not that it's OK for it to be so. it's fundamental that we question everything and not accept the status quo and and just give up and shrug and think "that's just how things are". no way! this is a great discussion because it helped a lot of people transcend their individual, possibly uninformed perspective on this and other matters. lana herself has appropriated images just because they're beautiful to her and by changing their context gives them a new "artistic" connotation. her glamorization of the mob is terrible, for example, when you think of the people who are subjected to the tiranny of the mafia in italy (and worldwide). i think it's worthwile to debate and give things real thought. that's what i love about this forum: through themes that stem from lana-related discussions, everyone reflects on important issues and shares their views and in that, we are mutually enriched by other's outlooks and personal experiences and sometimes reconsider previous stances. hopefully all of this can lead to broadening our horizons and transcending the limitations of our geographical and mental locations

 

[Monicker 3,035]

perhaps i'm wrong, but i interpreted that fluorine meant that this type of appropriation that strips things of their true meaning is rampant in this tumblr day and age, not that it's OK for it to be so. it's fundamental that we question everything and not accept the status quo and and just give up and shrug and think "that's just how things are". no way! this is a great discussion because it helped a lot of people transcend their individual, possibly uninformed perspective on this and other matters. lana herself has appropriated images just because they're beautiful to her and by changing their context gives them a new "artistic" connotation. her glamorization of the mob is terrible, for example, when you think of the people who are subjected to the tiranny of the mafia in italy (and worldwide). i think it's worthwile to debate and give things real thought. that's what i love about this forum: through themes that stem from lana-related discussions, everyone reflects on important issues and shares their views and in that, we are mutually enriched by other's outlooks and personal experiences and sometimes reconsider previous stances. hopefully all of this can lead to broadening our horizons and transcending the limitations of our geographical and mental locations

 

Hear, hear.

[ednafrau 836]

p.s. maybe i'm being too optimistic but i have faith that our cultural differences will be celebrated and respected and the global homogenization will never come to be, despite the corporate will for it to be so, so that they may reach a globalized audience of consumers. internet can cause everything to seem to be progressively stewed in one big melting pot of sameness, negating the particular, but i think that perhaps it can have the opposite effect of enlightening us and connecting us.

sorry for my sunday morning meanderings of the mind!

[Fluorine 162]

Is that what they need to realize? I take it you don't think this is a very limited, typically American-white-privileged view, right? You really think that what you experience on your youtube screen at home is fully representative of the multitude of cultures, values, traditions, ways of living, creeds, politics, economic systems, art, etc. that exist AROUND THE WORLD? Maybe in your reality tunnel culture is dead and "we" live in one, big bubble of sameness, but that certainly doesn't warrant the kind of misinformed, sweeping generalizations you've made here. Were you trying to make an incendiary and sensationalistic statement or is it just ignorance? You've traveled the world and seen the homogenization of culture in every pocket of the globe? You've fully investigated and exhausted all modern art, huh? You've only ever met people with experiences similar to yours? Imagine ANYONE else of ANY culture besides yours making the same presumptuous statements you've made here.

 

I sort of was, though I went back and tempered my response in a later reply to someone else.

 

You definitely do have a point about my "reality tunnel," though. Sometimes I think I react the way I do when this topic comes up because:

 

A) Indeed, I do speak from an undeniably privileged viewpoint.

B) I struggle with cultural identity issues because I don't feel like I really have one.

[Monicker 3,035]

I struggle with cultural identity issues because I don't feel like I really have one.

 

I can relate to this. Both of my parents are Cuban, i am ethnically 100% Cuban. Though i was born in America, i was raised in a Cuban household, learned Spanish before English, was immersed in a specific Cuban community, but i really haven't felt any connection with Cuban culture since i was very, very young. I have essentially had an American experience, that is, i am culturally American. And i have certainly gone through times when i didn't necessarily feel American either.

 

When it comes to identity, for me personally, the truth is that, as a white, middle class, heterosexual, cisgender male, it hasn't been important, it's not really an issue. Of course that's because it's not a necessity to me, being that i belong to the demographic that holds the most influence and power around the globe. I am of the dominant, privileged group. It's often an uncomfortable thing to negotiate and reconcile with myself. Fortunately, i don't feel the need to blame myself for these things that i was born into, and i'm still figuring out the different ways in which to think about my position in society, in the world.

 

It would be insane to believe that the world is only what i see and experience. Despite the amount of time i spend on it, i really, really, REALLY dislike the internet. It depresses me, it overwhelms me, it makes me feel hopeless, etc. One of the biggest factors in my feeling this way is seeing how homogenous things have gotten and keep getting, and the way that it all becomes so oversaturated, and so rapidly. Sometimes it seems that everything is melting into one, that the same things reach everyone, that everyone thinks the same, that everyone is the same person. Then i remind myself that there are always specific things--ideas, places, people, etc. that i gravitate toward, which are contributing to and shaping my limited reality. I am only exposed to a very small facet of culture and life. Most of us are. Humanity is so diverse, the human experience so varied, that it makes my head spin.

 

What's the point of all this? To all of us: get the fuck off of tumblr.

[Lana Del Rey 753]

I don't need an explanation, she looks amazing in it and that's all i care about and I always knew it was indian but people kept saying it was and neon but then i heard and neon but then i heard indian so like yeah my life story x x

[Sitar 22,218]

Anyone realize there wasn't nearly this amount of backlash when she was pretending to be a lesbian for an entire video?

[Matt 984]

Anyone realize there wasn't nearly this amount of backlash when she was pretending to be a lesbian for an entire video?

 

I saw a few articles saying she was glorifying suicide but that was about it. Good point you've got there.

[Monicker 3,035]

Anyone realize there wasn't nearly this amount of backlash when she was pretending to be a lesbian for an entire video?

 

Haa, terrible point! Is she playing a Native American character in the Ride video? Is homosexuality exclusive to one culture?

[Sitar 22,218]

Haa, terrible point! Is she playing a Native American character in the Ride video? Is homosexuality exclusive to one culture?

 

No, but it's a culture itself--or maybe "culture" isn't always the right word, but similar. I'm probably opening a can of worms I'm not prepared to back up, but what's the difference in using symbolism and portraying a character, as far as offense goes?

[Monicker 3,035]

Was she using symbolism in Ride? I guess all we have is the dubious screenshot from twitter of her explanation, so maybe we can't comment on any of this yet with certainty. However, even if that was legitimately a response from her, i think the symbolism is hard to pick up in the video (maybe that's my own shortcoming though). There's also the fact that it happens in conjunction with her brandishing a gun and drinking in the desert, while saying she's fucking crazy, which, needless to say, doesn't paint a good picture. In Ride, she's a white girl, she's basically herself, and then suddenly she's in the desert with the headdress. In Summertime Sadness, there's nothing about her and her character that couldn't make her a lesbian. Anyone can be a lesbian. It's used in the video as a vehicle to tell a love story, something that is as universal as anything can be. It's not as if she was in blackface in SS or donning a kimono in an attempt to be a Japanese character. She wasn't stereotyping gay women. There was no symbol or badge of gayness that was used in the video to either make a point or simply look pretty. She wasn't taking something recognizable and in the process representing an entire group of people.

[PrettyBaby 2,220]

OT: Sitar, your sig is synched up perfectly with OTTR right now and it's kinda mesmerizing...

[Sitar 22,218]

Was she using symbolism in Ride? I guess all we have is the dubious screenshot from twitter of her explanation, so maybe we can't comment on any of this yet with certainty. However, even if that was legitimately a response from her, i think the symbolism is hard to pick up in the video (maybe that's my own shortcoming though). There's also the fact that it happens in conjunction with her brandishing a gun and drinking in the desert, while saying she's fucking crazy, which, needless to say, doesn't paint a good picture. In Ride, she's a white girl, she's basically herself, and then suddenly she's in the desert with the headdress. In Summertime Sadness, there's nothing about her and her character that couldn't make her a lesbian. Anyone can be a lesbian. It's used in the video as a vehicle to tell a love story, something that is as universal as anything can be. It's not as if she was in blackface in SS or donning a kimono in an attempt to be a Japanese character. She wasn't stereotyping gay women. There was no symbol or badge of gayness that was used in the video to either make a point or simply look pretty. She wasn't taking something recognizable and in the process representing an entire group of people.

 

So then we'll call it "fashion". Fashion versus portraying a lesbian for...what reason? Even if it was basically respectful, it was still a culture that she basically has no business making art out of. Because she obviously had a purpose for doing it, even if it wasn't a symbol or badge of gayness or just for aesthetics. I'm not saying I'm particularly offended by it, nor the headdress, but we have to look at her other actions. Is it disrespectful to wrap yourself in the American flag?

 

Anyway, this has the potential to get messy, because I'm not sure I was intending to make a point in the first place.

[alexzdelrey 123]

I wouldn't really care so much, but she's wearing it in a scene where her friends are intoxicated and acting like drunks and doing fucking stupid shit. And there she is laughing wearing a fucking headdress. It's just pointless and no matter how "beautiful" it looks there is no meaning behind it. She should've left it out all together.