slang

Fair enough I won't quote you @@Valentino. And yeah, if you thought the "racist" comment was directed at you (which was reasonable, I guess) that was my mistake. Someone above you was using that term, and I should have found the quote and multi-quoted it. It's basically the idea that "intention is meaningless" in an appropriation that I am questioning. I'm sort of tired that people talk about the wrongness of the appropriation without speculating about the reasoning behind the appropriation (other than the obvious bad reasons). I did concede that she was wrong to do it, the question is how wrong. The thought experiment I was proposing was: you have LDR's headdress use and Victoria's Secret's use. The latter apologized and LDR did not, but I think you can make an argument (under certain interpretations) that LDR's use was less offensive.

The problem I have with calling her use of the headdress racist is that the term "racist" implies hatred and fear, and I don't think she has either for Native Americans. I think you can say she is disrespectful or insensitive to something, and nobody is arguing her use of the headdress in the video is authorized. But how offensive it is depends on the meaning of her use, or what she intended to communicate by using it. Even if all appropriations are wrong, the degree of wrong is not one-size-fits-all and has to be considered case by case. That said, my favorite interpretation of why she wears the headdress supposes LDR considers being a recovered alcoholic a kind of struggle she shared with some Native Americans (alcohol being a weapon of the "Indian Wars" of the 19th century). She wears the headdress as a badge of honor for her victory over alcoholism and maybe as a defensive talisman protecting her from the effects of alcohol on her men. The Wikipedia entry for "War Bonnet" is what gave me both ideas (badge of honor is a standard function; protective talisman is suggested by the last paragraph about Roman Nose). I'm not defending her, because it's still a cultural appropriation, even if the headdress is used in a culturally-relevant way. However, at least I have an explanation for why a Native American headdress shows up in a video with so many cut shots to booze -- attached only to her men -- while her character (crazy in many ways) makes a point of drinking orange soda. I don't think LDR has to have intended my interpretation for me to hold it (although I find it plausible she does). However, she does need to stay sober in order for me to continue to hold it.

I remember better production on the soundcloud version? What's weird is that singing it like Lou Reed makes me feel TS is a lyrical genius, how odd! Her lyrics are pretty good actually.

a good review and it agrees with an LB member whom I remember first commented that HM is all about time in some sense (can't remember who it is, but whoever it is should take a bow, this reviewer agrees with you!). http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/09/lana-del-rey-honeymoon-review-stopping-time-alone/406027/

<<<<< V interview excerpt >>>>>>>>>> James Franco: Why did you call the new album Honeymoon? Lana Del Rey: “Honeymoon.” I guess its the word that sums up the ultimate dream. I mean, life is a honeymoon, you know? Life, love, paradise, freedom.. thats forever. With someone, or just with yourself. It just felt right, kind of the way Ultraviolence felt right before that, when I had a little more rage (laughs). I love the concept that life is a dream and you curate your own space so that it becomes your heaven. Its all contingent upon your state of mind, which is why I don’t always do interviews – because it puts me in a bad fucking mood. I really try and keep my world beautiful but its tricky. We’re at a point in time when life truly can be what you want it to be. <<<< end Quote >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So the followup question I would have asked is: "If Life's a Honeymoon, then what is the marriage?" She should respond a marriage "between spirit and matter" as in @@litewave 's post 10 in his esoteric origins of mankind thread (Lana thoughts).

"Lizzy’s first record bombed—before the success, the acclaim, and the namesake Mulberry bag, she was a failure." I always hate AKA "bombing" references; I mean I thought it was just suppressed by LDR after about 3 months. What was the objective evidence for bombing? Are there any threads with actual reviews of AKA at LB? Did AKA chart? How can something that so many people love now be a bomb?

What I didn't like about the NYT review is that it confuses boredom and blankness with philosophical pessimism, which I guess is related to LDR's death fears, and her most often cited countermeasure, which is focusing on the beauty of the current moment (so the dog lounging in the sun comparison could work for me, given the proper framing). LDR cares quite a lot; it's just that the emotionality she expresses is a kind of detached resignation, not the more dynamic rage or horror that could be used. For instance, in these lines from MTWBT: "Nothing gold can stay Like love or lemonade Or sun or summer days It's all a game to me anyway" On Fantano (theneedledrop): He likes Chelsea Wolfe, whom I also like. So if he manages to get LDR's pessimism (which is similar to Chelsea's, but C's much more obvious at expressing it), he might give HM a higher rating than BTD (a 3, I believe) or UV (a 2, I believe). F's reviews for LDR tend to be overly subjective, or based simply on how the music affects him or how he perceives it (i.e. pitch problems in singing). This, of course, is intrinsically uninteresting, for someone that perceives LDR reality differently.

Spotify provided the needed closure for hearing all the songs on the album (it's going to be awhile before my CD arrives). I would really have liked to have been a fly on the wall when the interscope execs first heard HM. If they didn't like UV, they would've been horrified by HM. I mean UV was much more dynamic and varied -- along the dimensions pop and rock are expected to be. HM is also varied, but in more of an ambient, vocally-focused, soft jazz kind of way. The songs harken back to Billy Holliday Gloomy Sunday but with trap beats and relatively homogenized song tempos, which provides more of an abstract similarity to BTD's stylistic homogeneity (though I like HM's production better). The melodies in HM have a different feeling from UV and BTD (with the exception of Freak and MTWBT in parts), and it's going to take a while for song rankings to settle down. That said, I think it's a strong album from the point of view of artistic achievement, but no pop music badges will be earned. I'd be happy if it were nominated for a grammy in the pop vocal category, assuming the voting body wanted to increase diversity in what is considered pop, but more realistically it could be nominated for alternative. Hopefully, it sells well, as there's a lot of beautiful stuff on HM (but unfortunately a lot of beautiful albums don't sell well). As far as DLMBM goes, the Animals (who wrote the song) have a version and so does Nina Simone. LDR's version seems more similar to the Animals. It seems to be there as an album closer to lighten the mood, which for mainstream pop, HM is pretty bleak at. The fact that the song follows Swan Song is interesting. Lana Del Rey, you never know™.

Not feeling it as much as the UV singles but still pretty good in the sense she does some new things in her vocals and instruments, and it's a strong bridge. Don't want to overplay it before the video. I also hear the Sad Girl influence (others mention). HM>HBTB=MTWBB>TLY Kind of wonder if she's saving more dynamic material for the album release and is somewhat perverse (or just non-conventional) in her single selection (but there's still Freak). I'm not really clear on what a "single" is conceptually, except that they have dedicated "cover art" and seem to be the songs the label/artist want to promote via radio. So it will be interesting to see what the non-singles sound like (e.g. Money Power Glory, should have been single?).

Born to Die and AKA are very disimilar to The Fame though, so I mean why are a few lyric and/or style overlaps (not improbable in pop music) so interesting? Roisin Murphy also shopped at the same kind of fashion boutiques as Lady Gaga prior to her (with Roisin having the better taste, imo). Finally both LG and RM probably owe much to Madonna (Ray of Light?).

I thought Brooklyn Baby was a single, but it had no video.

So I'm guessing Freak is the next single after MTWBT, because all the other songs sampled are singles, and on the UV trailer she only sampled singles too.

I don't think people should complain either because 1) style/glamour memes are supposed to be imitated, 2) once they are imitated and are seen as such they function as original artist promotion, 3) musical theme imitation is more interesting. Certainly there is a part of Wildest Dreams that sounds like a part of Without You, but Taylor completes the theme in a different way, and I think that is enough to make them different (compare with Sam Smith's recent problem, and BTW I think Pharell/Robin were robbed, even if I detest the topic of Blurred Lines). LDR imitates and completes known musical themes differently too, but has the sense to do so with much older (but still very well known) artists. I'm more interested in LDR's role as the "anti-Swift", or her doing stuff that seems diametrically opposed to Taylor. So the UV/Blank Space music video comparisons are interesting to me. Here's also a quote of Taylor's that is a favorite of mine (at least I think it's a quote): <<< from Time article>>> "They're [her fans are] discovering the music that tells them how they are going to live their lives and how they should feel and how it's acceptable to feel," Swift says. "I think that that's kind of exciting." To her fans she has recently started speaking out on two connected matters of importance to her: the music business and feminism. <<< end quote >>> This is from Time Magazine, Nov 24, which has Taylor Swift's face on the cover, not because she's Beethoven, but because she has a lot of "power" (aka sells a lot of records?). Anyway the article writer is talking about Taylor "minister"ing her fans at 1989 preview parties. Contrast with LDR's general position on being a "role model". Also their positions on music streaming on Spotify free is interesting, and I'm hoping HM album will be immediately streamable there like UV album was (otherwise I'm looking at 4 to 5 business days to get the physical, but also crossing my fingers for Amazon autorip).

Liked most of what you say, but... When you talk about LDR's influence as an artist, I think it's less about specific style and song similarities. It's more an indirect influence of being off the beaten track vis a vis pop, so that if she is successful (and makes the majority of high-profile critics look like shit, wow that word is suddenly out of vogue now!), it helps all dissimilar but outsiderish artists to succeed, from Chelsea Wolfe to Naomi Elizabeth. At least I'll state that as a theory. This is the influence Joni Mitchell, Kate Bush, and Bjork have been cited for, and it's an ongoing battle. And one should mention that those artists could do both killer pop and avante garde styles. So to keep a little in topic, I'm hoping Honeymoon is like AKA 2.0 in the sense of having songs that are both as beautiful and as diverse as Pawn Shop Blues and Smarty.

I admit being perplexed nobody in the thread was mentioning it looking like "Loo" (Brit slang for toilet), so I might indeed be odd. You were the closest, so I responded to you. If a lot of people had the same idea, however, I think it's interesting, because photos are so easily duplicated and she could have made it less ambiguous, that is, if somebody around her had actually said "hey this looks like 'Loo of Love' ". Maybe she was going for "Look of Love" and just changed her mind? Anyway, I don't think you have to interpret it quite as precisely as you do, because it could be a more general and vague "love is in the toilet" sentiment (i.e., she seems upset and quite sardonic). Then again maybe it's a Duchamp/Dada reference. Lana Del Rey, you never know™.

I don't know promo, but it seems a very subjective thing. She's not like Taylor, but she's not like Chelsea Wolfe either. I could say she is mid-range, but this ignores the fact that her promo tactics are unusual and many of them are not obviously intended. Things just happen to her, and you cannot buy (or sell?) that kind of promotion. So she has a trendy actor as a thrallish admirer and chronicler, an inveterate rock pioneer as a social critic, photographs with Kanye and some music mogul, Eminem using her name in a lyric, and the Weeknd featuring and praising her. The Endless Summer tour was brilliant promo imo (both her youtube performances and her choice of tourmates). She also has inveterate music producers stanning for her. People thirst for her, and the most banal media exposure is savored as a tantalizing glimpse and echoed all over the internet. She is photographed both on the streets of LA and at a royal wedding in Monaco (wearing sandals and mostly her legs, a feminist symbol if ever there was one, imo). Now we are starting a phase of sensational photoshoots. Both Time and Rollingstone have just forefronted her as a fall release to anticipate. Let's just see what the album is. Finally, with all the minimal intentional promotion she does, I was glad to see UV re-enter Billboard 200 at 196. It's not that great but it's something (and it's the 53rd week UV charted).

Your may be giving Klein too much credit. She wrote "Loo of Love" on the photo

Taylor Swift dis song?

Just on the basis of what you said, I'm taking "no label interest" to mean "dissatisfied with the current deal and holding out for a better one". At least, I'm skeptical of another interpretation, given the lack of details, and given the fact of an EP release. As far as Riverside goes, it was never required for the LP, though he did release the lyrics for it a while back and they seemed pretty unlikely to piss anybody off. Now some have heard the song (same lyrics?), though not me, because Periscope is an intentionally temporary promotion service (and that aspect of it sucks, imo), but I do wonder what people, who have heard the song, think of it.

There's way too many stereotypes about who the LDR fans are. LDR performed at the 2014 Breakthrough Prizes Awarded in Fundamental Physics and Life Sciences, and I bet she was invited. So I guess Nietszche was right on the money when he wrote The Gay Science in 1882.

Go Go Dancer has really excellent lyrics. I mean it has imagery, eroticism, character, and multiple character perspectives. The "My Daddy is Rich" line and the Larcombe production have always suggested to me that it was written in the BTD era, as LDR is inclined to use criticism creatively in her songs (FMWUTTT, MPG). In another post (somewhere) I compared GGD to Nabokov. In yet another post I compared TIWMUG and NA to Bob Dylan. It's something about the wordiness and wry humor of the songs, maybe also in the execution. "Drinking on the job.... with the boss" gets me every time. Last Girl on Earth has some excellent name dropping and hyperbole. How that one was never released is probably the biggest enigma for me.

Surprise no love for Hollywood's Dead. Most people write just about one famous person dying before their time (Lennon, Joplin). She writes about a bunch people dying before their time as a general topic for a song. Has anybody else done that? And the saddest thing about that song is she probably left out more names than she included.

Wow reading the HM speculation / pre-release thread is like watching a soap opera. Anyway, http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/5687-honeymoon-pre-release-and-discussion-thread/?p=275242

There was a mention of LDR in the Sept 7, Time (Steve Colbert on cover), in a article called "Best of Fall Arts". So under the article title (actually inside the title as the font was real big) they had subsections subtitled: so under movies section (sec 1)) they they had "The return of James Bond ...", under the Music section (sec 5)) they had "Lana Del Rey Takes a Honeymoon, P115" So I go to page 115 and see a small stock foto of Lana in a super garish flower dress (endless summer tour?) holding a mic in the bottom right corner (just atop the pg number, lol). I look at the left column where they note these upcoming music releases by these artists and in this order: Beirut, Lana Del Rey, Disclosure, John Grant, Wavves, Duran Duran, Selena Gomez, Toby Keith, Neon Indian, BORNS Joanna Newsom , Elvis Presley (wtf?), Little Mix. Each artist has a description under them. Here's Lana's: Lana Del Rey Honeymoon The controversial chanteuse comes out with her third full-length set, which promises to return to the mournful lyrics and heavy drums of her debut and move away from the lo-fi rock of her sophomore LP, Ultraviolence. Out, Sept 18 Being mentioned in Time as a lead exemplar for an artistic event category is encouraging, no? It means they think she is an artist of focus right now, imo.

Got this from the Grimes thread: http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6678367/grimes-announces-the-launch-of-eerie-organization-will-release-newcomer?mobile_redirection=false http://lanaboards.com/index.php?/topic/276-grimes/?p=274555