User14

It's hard to compare the videos artistically but there is a simple way to see how popular they were/are.She had only two proper videos this era which I think that are not suitable for the youtube spamming demographic: the use of Mahoney in the SoC video turned off a lot of people and WC video is a mess conceptually (they cut off a lot of scenes). We have practically two videos for WC, the audio version samples the proper video which was a bad move in my opinion (the audio version has more views than the full video version).
 
Here are some facts:
BTD era:
Born to Die: 160.276 views/day
VG (2 releases): 112.405 views/day
Blue Jeans: 107.000 views/day
National Anthem (3 releases): 56.684 views/day
 
UV era:
WC (audio+full video): 175.292 views/day
WC (only full video): 97.561 views/day
SoC: 89.109 views/day
 
Lana's best:
YB: 188.193 views/day
 
So this era is not that bad but it can be observed a significant drop in the number of views. I think that we have to take in consideration the lack of promotion and the music itself which is less appealing to that youtube spamming demographic (those disappointed that UV wasn't BTD 2.0).

I'm still questioning what happened with the UV era and why she's releasing so soon another album. I have 3 scenarios:
 
1. The depressing scenario. She wants to get out of her contract with Interscope and she has 3 albums to do and so she rushed the release so she won't get any penalties. Then she will go indie (aka she will do whatever she wants) or she will retire for a while or forever (have babies etc.). This is a career harakiri but is consistent with her obvious lack of confidence in everything she does, with her depression, with her statements that she didn't enjoy anything so far in the music business, that she didn't find peers, with her stage fright and her refusal to shine in the limelight and especially to perform outside her comfort zone. Maybe she's acknowledging that she's not capable to be a great performer or to evolve as a songwriter (I think that UV is overall better lyrically than BTD but not at VG level). In this scenario I expect a ”rushed album” with no hits, no promo, that will have a negative reception critically and commercially and will not have anything to do with her announced tour that will be renamed the "Farewell" tour. This seems like far fetched, would be a total let down of her fans and is not consistent at all with the announcement of her tour (big venues) and with her position in the business that other (good) musicians are incapable of attaining even after a lifetime of hard work. But is she capable of basically shit on everything that she accomplished? Unfortunately yes, the UV video, the Letterman, Virgin radio France, BBC live lounge last minute cancellations are hints that she is capable to make irrational decisions based on her anxieties.
 
2. The pop megastar scenario. UV was a critic silencer (worked pretty well) but she doesn't want to lose her mainstream appeal so she's preparing a big release with heavy promo, with a few legitimate hits, with TV performances etc. This is inconsistent with everything that I presented above but is consistent with her current status (on radar moderate pop star) and the obvious interest of her label to milk her commercial potential at max. This scenario will work if the label will be at the helm of this era preparing it like a proper big pop release (radio, tv, magazines, promotion of hits, videos with high production etc). In this scenario I expect a GP friendly sound and theme, more coherent that BTD (fewer songs) and HITS (on the radio and charts). Maybe she still craves that level of pop stardom and she's finally willing to do what it takes. I highly doubt this scenario because I don't see her transforming in a confident, all around performer. 
 
3. The boring scenario. Honeymoon will be an era in the UV vein (no extreme outcomes), with a different sound but the same lanaesque lyrics and her career will slowly dwindle down unless she would be capable to make a better album artistically than UV. This is the scenario that I hope for that she'll evolve lyrically and combined with a new interesting sound she will get more critically acclaimed.

This was a cheap shot. You got your likes. Of course that you can use the term more generally which can include the singers. But you know very well what I'm talking about multi instrumentalists, composers (Haynie, Kurstin, Parker, Heath, Nowels, Ronson etc.) people who can build a song, without them Lana would be doing perpetually Sirens albums.Now, that we are naming each other, for me you're the typical delusional Lana fan who fail to even properly read the other argument. I never said that I care about charts or promotion (for the sake of charting). Performances =/= going for the bling (see Kate Bush, St. Vincent, FKA TWigs (even SIA) and many others who actually perform their music). 
What I'm talking about is her credibility as an lyricist and a singer (she cannot be blamed/praised for the sound). What is the purpose of writing about anything on Honeymoon if she doesn't explain it why she wrote those things?! You are not tired of building meanings from her cliches or name droppings?! I want her to say for once in a concert that I felt this way or I was bothered by this issue when she wrote the damn song. You cannot just hastily rush through a repetitive set of songs (not even singing in tune) with the same attitude and being outsang by the fans who are putting more passion than you in the damn songs. These are not performances worthy of a great lyricist or singer, these are gatherings, meetings with her fans, nothing more. But what we really are talking about here are the expectations that we have towards her as an artist.
 
Some of you are content with the same chitchats about inventing fake tracklists, speculating about the theme of her album when you know shit about it. I don't say that these are not acceptable discussions on a forum but please stop calling others trolls just because they think that other things are more important about her new era.

Pls maybe we could stop this real/shallow fan BS? Maybe I'm in minority here but I care for her in my own way.
 
Lana is not a musician by any measure. She's a lyricist and a singer. She contributes sometimes with melodies but that's it for her in the musical department. She needs musicians to build her sound. I don't care about her charting but I care about her performances and that matters regardless your opinion or mine. Without performances you cannot really convey the message of your songs and some of her fans may have a difficulty enjoying her anymore. I reached that point when I need convincing performances from her to enjoy her artistry (the lyrics, the sound is secondary to me in the Honeymoon era). I need her to be strong and show us her abilities as a singer and that she cares about her work (message). If she doesn't take seriously her own work (UV) why should we? As you said, some of her fans will stop following her after the Honeymoon era but not necessarily as flop stans but as people who don't want to follow a mediocre artist which has nothing left to give. She brought this on herself by hastily announcing this era without doing anything significant with UV. You know her explanation for UV: it's a mix of east coast and west coast vibe done in the middle. Really?! That's it? Enjoy the music!

After 5 listens:
The song starts out strong, the melody of the chorus is just annoying in my opinion ("cute" Clayderman type of melody), the bridge doesn't fit with the rest of the song, it's a mess (she tries some vocal acrobatics that I'm not sure that works well for her that I'm loooonly part)

I never said that BTD flopped but I'm sure that BTD 2.0 will flop commercially

I hope that she's not going back to this sound for Honeymoon. The sound is boring "eerie", she will flop commercially and critically with this sound. I hope that this guy will stay as far as possible from Honeymoon. UV sound is superior: CW, UV, WC, SoC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than this

This was a cheap shot. You got your likes. Of course that you can use the term more generally which can include the singers. But you know very well what I'm talking about multi instrumentalists, composers (Haynie, Kurstin, Parker, Heath, Nowels, Ronson etc.) people who can build a song, without them Lana would be doing perpetually Sirens albums.Now, that we are naming each other, for me you're the typical delusional Lana fan who fail to even properly read the other argument. I never said that I care about charts or promotion (for the sake of charting). Performances =/= going for the bling (see Kate Bush, St. Vincent, FKA TWigs (even SIA) and many others who actually perform their music). 
What I'm talking about is her credibility as an lyricist and a singer (she cannot be blamed/praised for the sound). What is the purpose of writing about anything on Honeymoon if she doesn't explain it why she wrote those things?! You are not tired of building meanings from her cliches or name droppings?! I want her to say for once in a concert that I felt this way or I was bothered by this issue when she wrote the damn song. You cannot just hastily rush through a repetitive set of songs (not even singing in tune) with the same attitude and being outsang by the fans who are putting more passion than you in the damn songs. These are not performances worthy of a great lyricist or singer, these are gatherings, meetings with her fans, nothing more. But what we really are talking about here are the expectations that we have towards her as an artist.
 
Some of you are content with the same chitchats about inventing fake tracklists, speculating about the theme of her album when you know shit about it. I don't say that these are not acceptable discussions on a forum but please stop calling others trolls just because they think that other things are more important about her new era.

This was a cheap shot. You got your likes. Of course that you can use the term more generally which can include the singers. But you know very well what I'm talking about multi instrumentalists, composers (Haynie, Kurstin, Parker, Heath, Nowels, Ronson etc.) people who can build a song, without them Lana would be doing perpetually Sirens albums.Now, that we are naming each other, for me you're the typical delusional Lana fan who fail to even properly read the other argument. I never said that I care about charts or promotion (for the sake of charting). Performances =/= going for the bling (see Kate Bush, St. Vincent, FKA TWigs (even SIA) and many others who actually perform their music). 
What I'm talking about is her credibility as an lyricist and a singer (she cannot be blamed/praised for the sound). What is the purpose of writing about anything on Honeymoon if she doesn't explain it why she wrote those things?! You are not tired of building meanings from her cliches or name droppings?! I want her to say for once in a concert that I felt this way or I was bothered by this issue when she wrote the damn song. You cannot just hastily rush through a repetitive set of songs (not even singing in tune) with the same attitude and being outsang by the fans who are putting more passion than you in the damn songs. These are not performances worthy of a great lyricist or singer, these are gatherings, meetings with her fans, nothing more. But what we really are talking about here are the expectations that we have towards her as an artist.
 
Some of you are content with the same chitchats about inventing fake tracklists, speculating about the theme of her album when you know shit about it. I don't say that these are not acceptable discussions on a forum but please stop calling others trolls just because they think that other things are more important about her new era.

I expected an entirely different song from the snippet...I'm disappointed. Now I'm really interested in that Ronson guy

Wait For Life sound like 3 different songs. a mess

I expected an entirely different song from the snippet...I'm disappointed. Now I'm really interested in that Ronson guy

Can we all stop throwing around stan/fan/real fan/fake fan accusations every time someone makes a point you don't agree with? Think people need to get off their high horses. What gives anyone the right to declare someone else's fan status for them? At the end of the day, we all signed up to this forum with a shared interest in either Lana or her music. Getting tired of the same self-righteous elite issuing fan labels to others on here. 
 
Me, well I might not know Lana's full back catalogue of music lyric for lyric or in chronological order of time, day and date of recording prior to Video Games but hey, I have bought her albums and paid to see her live. Oh yeah and that's right, the girl on the left in my avatar - it happens to be me, and I'm not a cartoon or a figment of someone's imagination, so yeah - perfectly 'real' fan over here!

This was a cheap shot. You got your likes. Of course that you can use the term more generally which can include the singers. But you know very well what I'm talking about multi instrumentalists, composers (Haynie, Kurstin, Parker, Heath, Nowels, Ronson etc.) people who can build a song, without them Lana would be doing perpetually Sirens albums.Now, that we are naming each other, for me you're the typical delusional Lana fan who fail to even properly read the other argument. I never said that I care about charts or promotion (for the sake of charting). Performances =/= going for the bling (see Kate Bush, St. Vincent, FKA TWigs (even SIA) and many others who actually perform their music). 
What I'm talking about is her credibility as an lyricist and a singer (she cannot be blamed/praised for the sound). What is the purpose of writing about anything on Honeymoon if she doesn't explain it why she wrote those things?! You are not tired of building meanings from her cliches or name droppings?! I want her to say for once in a concert that I felt this way or I was bothered by this issue when she wrote the damn song. You cannot just hastily rush through a repetitive set of songs (not even singing in tune) with the same attitude and being outsang by the fans who are putting more passion than you in the damn songs. These are not performances worthy of a great lyricist or singer, these are gatherings, meetings with her fans, nothing more. But what we really are talking about here are the expectations that we have towards her as an artist.
 
Some of you are content with the same chitchats about inventing fake tracklists, speculating about the theme of her album when you know shit about it. I don't say that these are not acceptable discussions on a forum but please stop calling others trolls just because they think that other things are more important about her new era.

This was a cheap shot. You got your likes. Of course that you can use the term more generally which can include the singers. But you know very well what I'm talking about multi instrumentalists, composers (Haynie, Kurstin, Parker, Heath, Nowels, Ronson etc.) people who can build a song, without them Lana would be doing perpetually Sirens albums.Now, that we are naming each other, for me you're the typical delusional Lana fan who fail to even properly read the other argument. I never said that I care about charts or promotion (for the sake of charting). Performances =/= going for the bling (see Kate Bush, St. Vincent, FKA TWigs (even SIA) and many others who actually perform their music). 
What I'm talking about is her credibility as an lyricist and a singer (she cannot be blamed/praised for the sound). What is the purpose of writing about anything on Honeymoon if she doesn't explain it why she wrote those things?! You are not tired of building meanings from her cliches or name droppings?! I want her to say for once in a concert that I felt this way or I was bothered by this issue when she wrote the damn song. You cannot just hastily rush through a repetitive set of songs (not even singing in tune) with the same attitude and being outsang by the fans who are putting more passion than you in the damn songs. These are not performances worthy of a great lyricist or singer, these are gatherings, meetings with her fans, nothing more. But what we really are talking about here are the expectations that we have towards her as an artist.
 
Some of you are content with the same chitchats about inventing fake tracklists, speculating about the theme of her album when you know shit about it. I don't say that these are not acceptable discussions on a forum but please stop calling others trolls just because they think that other things are more important about her new era.

I agree that what we discussed is not news but this is why I consider that Honeymoon is mostly about Lana as a singer.
 
What is Lana contribution as an artist to an album:
1. She is a lyricist. As a benevolent critic put it she's a great lyricist compared to Top 40 artist but noting special if we comparing her with the alt scene. Can we expect a revolution in her lyricism with Honeymoon? I don't think so. She said that the new album is ”noirish”. Well, all of her albums are ”noir” compared to the pop scene. Will be more darker than UV? I can imagine a twisted honeymoon theme from her but after she ditched unceremoniously the UV era and she said that she went to far, I expect a milder theme for Honeymoon without experimentation.
 
2. The sound. We have this Ronson guy with his funk sound. I don't know. If he stays at the helm of the album it will sound differently than BTD and UV and that is a wild card given her distinct voice that maybe will work maybe not with his production. I expect good melodies (lanasque sound) but this is what everybody expects from her: the Lana Del Rey vibe. We'll get it. But will be enough for me as a fan or for the GP and critics?
 
3. The performances (the singing). Her album sound is good albeit I thought that UV used to much reverb. In the UV era we didn't get any live performances except the festivals and some concerts with a mostly BTD setlist. Her concert reviews were mixed, the critics underlined that she has adoring fans who out-sing her and that her shows are short and somewhat unprofessional (what was annoying for some was that especially the new songs had heavy backup vocals that didn't matched very well with her live vocals). She didn't perform live in more than two years on television. 
 
It is her sound, lyrics or vibe new anymore? No, she lost her cool factor. After UV, her credibility issues as an artist shifts towards her abilities as a singer in my view. For me this will be the turning point regarding her artistry: I want her to express her thoughts towards me (as a part of the audience) convincingly,in a way that i feel that she meant the things she wrote. I need the live performances to take her art seriously (maybe is just me) because the way she explained and performed UV is just unconvincing

Pls maybe we could stop this real/shallow fan BS? Maybe I'm in minority here but I care for her in my own way.
 
Lana is not a musician by any measure. She's a lyricist and a singer. She contributes sometimes with melodies but that's it for her in the musical department. She needs musicians to build her sound. I don't care about her charting but I care about her performances and that matters regardless your opinion or mine. Without performances you cannot really convey the message of your songs and some of her fans may have a difficulty enjoying her anymore. I reached that point when I need convincing performances from her to enjoy her artistry (the lyrics, the sound is secondary to me in the Honeymoon era). I need her to be strong and show us her abilities as a singer and that she cares about her work (message). If she doesn't take seriously her own work (UV) why should we? As you said, some of her fans will stop following her after the Honeymoon era but not necessarily as flop stans but as people who don't want to follow a mediocre artist which has nothing left to give. She brought this on herself by hastily announcing this era without doing anything significant with UV. You know her explanation for UV: it's a mix of east coast and west coast vibe done in the middle. Really?! That's it? Enjoy the music!

Pls maybe we could stop this real/shallow fan BS? Maybe I'm in minority here but I care for her in my own way.
 
Lana is not a musician by any measure. She's a lyricist and a singer. She contributes sometimes with melodies but that's it for her in the musical department. She needs musicians to build her sound. I don't care about her charting but I care about her performances and that matters regardless your opinion or mine. Without performances you cannot really convey the message of your songs and some of her fans may have a difficulty enjoying her anymore. I reached that point when I need convincing performances from her to enjoy her artistry (the lyrics, the sound is secondary to me in the Honeymoon era). I need her to be strong and show us her abilities as a singer and that she cares about her work (message). If she doesn't take seriously her own work (UV) why should we? As you said, some of her fans will stop following her after the Honeymoon era but not necessarily as flop stans but as people who don't want to follow a mediocre artist which has nothing left to give. She brought this on herself by hastily announcing this era without doing anything significant with UV. You know her explanation for UV: it's a mix of east coast and west coast vibe done in the middle. Really?! That's it? Enjoy the music!

I agree that what we discussed is not news but this is why I consider that Honeymoon is mostly about Lana as a singer.
 
What is Lana contribution as an artist to an album:
1. She is a lyricist. As a benevolent critic put it she's a great lyricist compared to Top 40 artist but noting special if we comparing her with the alt scene. Can we expect a revolution in her lyricism with Honeymoon? I don't think so. She said that the new album is ”noirish”. Well, all of her albums are ”noir” compared to the pop scene. Will be more darker than UV? I can imagine a twisted honeymoon theme from her but after she ditched unceremoniously the UV era and she said that she went to far, I expect a milder theme for Honeymoon without experimentation.
 
2. The sound. We have this Ronson guy with his funk sound. I don't know. If he stays at the helm of the album it will sound differently than BTD and UV and that is a wild card given her distinct voice that maybe will work maybe not with his production. I expect good melodies (lanasque sound) but this is what everybody expects from her: the Lana Del Rey vibe. We'll get it. But will be enough for me as a fan or for the GP and critics?
 
3. The performances (the singing). Her album sound is good albeit I thought that UV used to much reverb. In the UV era we didn't get any live performances except the festivals and some concerts with a mostly BTD setlist. Her concert reviews were mixed, the critics underlined that she has adoring fans who out-sing her and that her shows are short and somewhat unprofessional (what was annoying for some was that especially the new songs had heavy backup vocals that didn't matched very well with her live vocals). She didn't perform live in more than two years on television. 
 
It is her sound, lyrics or vibe new anymore? No, she lost her cool factor. After UV, her credibility issues as an artist shifts towards her abilities as a singer in my view. For me this will be the turning point regarding her artistry: I want her to express her thoughts towards me (as a part of the audience) convincingly,in a way that i feel that she meant the things she wrote. I need the live performances to take her art seriously (maybe is just me) because the way she explained and performed UV is just unconvincing

No, all of them have better control of their voices live than Lana

Lana exists as an artist because of people like you and me (we listen to her music, watch her performances). It's a gap between the perfect artist and an artist that doesn't perform live except 50 min. in singalongs with her fans. Forgive my "misplaced" expectations towards her (that of singing live with confidence and in tune)

I'm not a fan of their music but Gaga, Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift and even Katy Perry have better live performances than Lana. If you don't think so please give examples (and there is no comparison when we talk about alt stars like St. Vincent) 
 
Lana today is unable to carry an MTV or Oscar performance and that is the sad reality.

I'm still questioning what happened with the UV era and why she's releasing so soon another album. I have 3 scenarios:
 
1. The depressing scenario. She wants to get out of her contract with Interscope and she has 3 albums to do and so she rushed the release so she won't get any penalties. Then she will go indie (aka she will do whatever she wants) or she will retire for a while or forever (have babies etc.). This is a career harakiri but is consistent with her obvious lack of confidence in everything she does, with her depression, with her statements that she didn't enjoy anything so far in the music business, that she didn't find peers, with her stage fright and her refusal to shine in the limelight and especially to perform outside her comfort zone. Maybe she's acknowledging that she's not capable to be a great performer or to evolve as a songwriter (I think that UV is overall better lyrically than BTD but not at VG level). In this scenario I expect a ”rushed album” with no hits, no promo, that will have a negative reception critically and commercially and will not have anything to do with her announced tour that will be renamed the "Farewell" tour. This seems like far fetched, would be a total let down of her fans and is not consistent at all with the announcement of her tour (big venues) and with her position in the business that other (good) musicians are incapable of attaining even after a lifetime of hard work. But is she capable of basically shit on everything that she accomplished? Unfortunately yes, the UV video, the Letterman, Virgin radio France, BBC live lounge last minute cancellations are hints that she is capable to make irrational decisions based on her anxieties.
 
2. The pop megastar scenario. UV was a critic silencer (worked pretty well) but she doesn't want to lose her mainstream appeal so she's preparing a big release with heavy promo, with a few legitimate hits, with TV performances etc. This is inconsistent with everything that I presented above but is consistent with her current status (on radar moderate pop star) and the obvious interest of her label to milk her commercial potential at max. This scenario will work if the label will be at the helm of this era preparing it like a proper big pop release (radio, tv, magazines, promotion of hits, videos with high production etc). In this scenario I expect a GP friendly sound and theme, more coherent that BTD (fewer songs) and HITS (on the radio and charts). Maybe she still craves that level of pop stardom and she's finally willing to do what it takes. I highly doubt this scenario because I don't see her transforming in a confident, all around performer. 
 
3. The boring scenario. Honeymoon will be an era in the UV vein (no extreme outcomes), with a different sound but the same lanaesque lyrics and her career will slowly dwindle down unless she would be capable to make a better album artistically than UV. This is the scenario that I hope for that she'll evolve lyrically and combined with a new interesting sound she will get more critically acclaimed.

Let's not get in to who is Lana's biggest fan (certainly I'm not a delusional fan partly because I follow her for a long time). But where are the lies tho?1. She can be depressing (with her words or actions)
2. BTD 2.0 or UV 2.0 would be boring (for me at least, I would never listen to a Dark Paradise type of song again)
3. Mega pop stardom for her, in my opinion, is doomed to failure because she cannot perform at that level (and she's not willing to learn)
 
Her only possibility, in my view, to further her career is to have another critically acclaimed album (with moderate commercial success, something between UV and BTD) but for achieving this she'll have to evolve lyrically and she will have to bring an updated sound to the table (what is wrong with that?)

Lana's Big Eyes wasn't nominated for the Oscars! I have an in between feeling about it. A part of me is less anxious about what will go wrong about her appearances but I would love to see her perform.