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Oldest Lana/Lizzy song (Not including SIRENS)

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Axl Rose Husband was recorded when she was 16.

(If I'm good at maths that is 2001 or even 2000 considering it was 11 months ago she commented that?)

Maybe she was conflating ARH with White Pontiac Heaven, and it was WPH that she recorded c. 2001?

 

...perhaps a bit of a spaz regarding dates and stuff (this is the least likely option, but i have a couple of friends who basically use me as their biographer, because they can't remember exact years for the life of them, if not for me they'd just say 5 or 10 years ago or something that was 3 years ago or 7 years ago :facepalm: )

(When I'm not being figurative) I'm really anal about things like accuracy, but I misspeak sometimes. And I quote...

Lawyer (technically) since I was 22.

What a thing to get wrong!!! :blush: It's glaringly obvious, because usually the youngest law students start at 22. But it's not something that affects me much in my present life, so I don't think about the specifics very often anymore.

 

I firmly believe it's "Money Hunny," perhaps with "Fordham Road" a follow-up.

Money Hunny is the only one I have dated as 2005. Though this is third- and fourth-hand info...

 

Axl Rose Husband and Elvis are way advanced compared to Sirens, so I don't think it's likely that they were recorded before that album.

I tend to agree. But I'm not a musician.

 

You crazy, boy. Other way around, by a long shot. Sirens is the peak of her guitar playing, in terms of technical abilities.

I will defer to your expertise. But I would expect more takes in a studio project, more input from producers, more polishing. (This goes for the vocals as well.) And do we know for a fact that she played the guitar on every song?

 

 

She's also claimed that "Pawn Shop Blues" was the first song she ever wrote

I think this had something to do with that young songwriters contest she almost won?

 

Bottom line, I agree with Monicker that we shouldn't assume year written = year recorded = year released/posted.

 

And I agree with EE that we need more receipts :facepalm:


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Guest Maru the Cat

I remember Jesse and I had a conversation on LDR.FM regarding this exact topic. CG had just posted that master-list of all the songs we knew of and quite a few of them had years missing. Now, I don't have what I sent him, but I do have his reply, I had to rummage through one of my emails to dig up this up. I included every song that pertains to this topic. These are all snapshots of the email; I did not alter or twist his words in anyway. He's very clear that these are guesses and assumptions; nothing here is concrete or can be taken as "fact".

 

REGARDING AXL ROSE HUSBAND RELATIVE TO SIRENS

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REGARDING ELVIS RELATIVE TO AXL ROSE HUSBAND

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REGARDING FORDHAM ROAD + MONEY HONEY RELATIVE TO SIRENS

RAMMr.png

 

REGARDING JIMMY GNECCO + GET DRUNK

mxQHF.png

 

REGARDING WHITE PONTIAC HEAVEN + ACAPELLA DEMOS

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How about 1949 or You're Gonna Love Me, which both have similar quality to Elvis and ARH?

 

Yeah, they sound like they’re from roughly the same period, but no two recordings share such exact sonic characteristics as Axl Rose and Elvis do.

 

Question just to be absolutely sure here: Is the consensus that Sirens comprises her very first (known) recordings? Also, what’s the consensus on its year of "release"?

 

 

I don't know, i’ve been thinking about all of this more since my last post a few days ago, and now i’m just confused. I mainly got into this discussion because of the comment that ARH and Elvis are way advanced compared to Sirens, which got me thinking about the progression of her guitar playing. I am not infallible and am by no means any sort of music authority. I will keep listening and comparing this stuff with everyone’s considerations in mind. I concede that she sounds younger in her singing on Sirens than anywhere else. And PrettyBaby raises a good point about the studio environment/process, however, that could go either way, too: You’re on the clock in the studio, on someone else’s time, paying (a good amount of $) for that time. When you’re recording at home, even though you may not have the input that an outside producer could offer, you do have all the time in the world to do as many takes as you want (though i guess one could argue that it depends on the person’s self-discipline). When you’re in the studio though you have to come in with your material already pretty polished and tight.

 

Find My Own Way is the one song on Sirens that has a markedly different style of playing, one that is very characteristic of a beginning guitar student, probably even more so than any other of her acoustic songs, even down to the fact that the guitar is out of tune. It’s also notable that it’s the only song on Sirens with strummed chords. I guess there’s the possibility that someone else played guitar on Sirens while she maybe played on Find My Own Way? Has this possibility ever been mentioned? I doubt that’s the case though, simply because the playing is not adept enough to suggest that it’s someone who was called in (even if just a friend doing a favor for her). So, i don’t know, if Sirens predates the other songs and she did indeed play on it, maybe she purposely simplified her playing after Sirens? Even though the playing on those other acoustic songs sounds so much more rudimentary to me than the playing on Sirens, i have to be open to the possibility of being a stylistic choice.

 

Some more questions:

 

Are we using internet upload dates as a certain indicator of when a song was written/recorded? Ya’ll probably know what i think of that ;)

 

What year did Lizzy first have a MySpace page?

 

 

 

 

1. Some of the skepticism was from the combination of her saying those were from when she was 16-17 and also saying PSB was the first song she wrote. And as Sitar pointed out, Elvis and ARH didn't show up on MySpace until later. (However, I think the often-used argument "CG said such and such" is weak. Even generally reliable sources need receipts people!) Some of my skepticism also comes from the lyrical content, which I freely admit I tend to over-emphasize in general, but I think you don't pay enough attention to it, Mo. ARH strikes me as something she wrote after moving to the NYC area. I'll compare them ~sonically~ to some of her other early rough demos when I get a chance though.

 

2. I'm having trouble finding where she said PSB was the first song she wrote right now, but I remember it being discussed on LDR.FM in conjunction with how old she said she was when she wrote Elvis and ARH. I think Trash Magic referred to it on SIN once and I remember discussing it with Maru as well. Can one of you help me out?

 

3. Her unease playing "Yayo" at the Union Pool show suggests to me it was likely new in 2007, 5 years ago. I think it's likely the "sultry song" she played at the 2008 WLSC, but it's also possible "Yayo" was the "new song" which "clearly wasn't as polished as 'Pawn Shop Blues'" that she "took a risk playing" at the 2006 WLSC Finals. But this reminds me... I remember Bob Leone saying somewhere (on Facebook maybe?) he remembers the first time Lizzy played "Yayo" for him (in her apartment, I think). And in this article he describes her playing songs for him two weeks after they met at the Bitter End on January 31, 2006. So maybe that was when she played him "Yayo" and it really could be 7 years old...

 

4. I'm not just referring to the "Ride" monologue. She repeated it in this interview.

 

I may not be right about all of these, but these were just a few possible examples I could think of off the top of my head of numerous instances I've seen where she can't be relied upon for an accurate timeline. (While I was looking up stuff for this I stumbled across another possible one... in 2010, she claimed her name change "came from a series of managers and lawyers over the last 5 years who wanted a name that they thought better fit the sound of the music". What? Did that stuff really start that soon? And then there's all the dates she's mentioned in interviews about when different things would supposedly be released... the mixtape and AKA re-release that never occurred, when music videos were supposed to drop, etc.) Aside from the age thing, I'm not even suggesting she deliberately misleads. As you say, she may give simplified versions, or misremember things. Nevertheless, the result is the same: Her saying when something happened or will happen ain't enough receipts for me.

 

 

 

I can accept all that, good points. And you’re right that i sometimes don’t pay enough attention to the lyrics as they relate to her life. I hope it’s evident that i’m not arguing for one particular hypothesis, but rather just throwing out an array of possibilities that i don’t really see being mentioned, all with the aim of getting closer to “the truth.” I guess my point was that just as we can’t really trust her when she gives a date/year, i feel we also shouldn’t automatically disqualify any date/year she gives. That’s fallacious reasoning, no?


"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world." -Wittgenstein

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Definitely Fordham Road is post Sirens, I've been listening to it and Elvis for the last days, and it definitely has more production, at least the guitar progression is better and there's even a bridge, something that she didn't do on any of the Sirens tracks :O I'm not entirely sure about Elvis, the guitar progression is almost the same as Next To Me, or maybe it's the same and it's just a quality problem. Regarding You're Gonna Love Me, Axl Rose Husband and 1949 I'd say they were probably recorded around the same time but definitely after Sirens now I regret saying that ARH was from 2002 :P


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Was Sirens recorded in Lake Placid? Is it the album that she said her boyfriends friend (?) produced?

 

I think it must be--although the older stuff like Rock Me Stable is actually registered and Sirens isn't.

 

Speaking of, has Lana ever mentioned Sirens? There's the vague stuff like talking about how weird all her early songs were, and starting the guitar at age 18...but does she explicitly say that she made the album?

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Was Sirens recorded in Lake Placid?

Yes, it was recorded in Lake Placid. See here.

 

Speaking of, has Lana ever mentioned Sirens? There's the vague stuff like talking about how weird all her early songs were, and starting the guitar at age 18...but does she explicitly say that she made the album?

Not to my knowledge.


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Stalking you has sorta become like my occupation.

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Definitely Fordham Road is post Sirens, I've been listening to it and Elvis for the last days, and it definitely has more production, at least the guitar progression is better and there's even a bridge, something that she didn't do on any of the Sirens tracks :O

 

Don’t know what you mean by one having "more production." I mean, i know what that implies, but not in this context. They’re both straightforward recordings of her singing along with an acoustic guitar. Sirens is a studio recording and Fordham Road is most likely not. The songwriting on FR and Sirens are in a very similar style, and her playing on FR is less polished and simpler than most anything on Sirens. Don’t know what a “better” (in your opinion) chord progression has to do with the chronology. And how does FR having a bridge definitely prove that it’s post Sirens?


"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world." -Wittgenstein

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Well surely the fact that it was recorded in Lake Placid (that and the obvious progression is her voice) makes it clear that Fordham Road is newer..


"It's 2011, and we should all be aware of exactly how fast technology is developing" - Lana Del Rey

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Okay so she moved to New York aged 18 (supposedly) She obviously wrote Fordham Road about her experience there. It's from 2006 which means she was 21. Sirens was supposedly recorded age 18, meaning it should be from 2003 . Hmm

 

And then Axl Rose Husband I strongly believe is 2007 aged 22

Elvis 2007 aged 22

 

Maybe other songs such as Come When You Call Me are from 2007/2008


"It's 2011, and we should all be aware of exactly how fast technology is developing" - Lana Del Rey

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I remember Jesse and I had a conversation on LDR.FM regarding this exact topic. CG had just posted that master-list of all the songs we knew of and quite a few of them had years missing. Now, I don't have what I sent him, but I do have his reply, I had to rummage through one of my emails to dig up this up. I included every song that pertains to this topic. These are all snapshots of the email; I did not alter or twist his words in anyway. He's very clear that these are guesses and assumptions; nothing here is concrete or can be taken as "fact".

 

REGARDING AXL ROSE HUSBAND RELATIVE TO SIRENS

sHCsb.png

 

REGARDING ELVIS RELATIVE TO AXL ROSE HUSBAND

dljLc.png

 

REGARDING FORDHAM ROAD + MONEY HONEY RELATIVE TO SIRENS

RAMMr.png

 

REGARDING JIMMY GNECCO + GET DRUNK

mxQHF.png

 

REGARDING WHITE PONTIAC HEAVEN + ACAPELLA DEMOS

vi0fm.png

worship.gif worship.gif worship.gif

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I think it must be--although the older stuff like Rock Me Stable is actually registered and Sirens isn't.Speaking of, has Lana ever mentioned Sirens? There's the vague stuff like talking about how weird all her early songs were, and starting the guitar at age 18...but does she explicitly say that she made the album?

Now that I think about it, I don't think she has (that we've found). What if Sirens doesn't exist? What if its just some fake album made up of songs on her old myspace?

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What if Rock Me Stable is the real name of Sirens? Since RMS is a 7 track EP (as far as I know) would some of the songs have been added to 9 other tracks to make what we know to be the album 'Sirens'?


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