Russia’s invasion into Ukraine

[Veinsineon 76,230]

10 minutes ago, BluebirdXO said:

I'll be the most hated person on this forum, but here we go:

 

  Hide contents

The west is overrating the whole thing and making it worse. If Putin backs down now, he'll look like a clown. If he keeps going, more innocents will die. The thought of Ukraine joining NATO was pure insanity and all the other countries have their parcel of guilty in this war

 

america has definitely turned the war into a “communal watch party”. it makes me so sick to see updates by big news outlets every 10 mins as if theyre not sensationalizing the SHIT out of war rn……. so very sad to see no action taken and only prying eyes from the western world.

[the ocean 67,597]

49 minutes ago, BluebirdXO said:

I'll be the most hated person on this forum, but here we go:

 

  Hide contents

The west is overrating the whole thing and making it worse. If Putin backs down now, he'll look like a clown. If he keeps going, more innocents will die. The thought of Ukraine joining NATO was pure insanity and all the other countries have their parcel of guilty in this war

 

 

i think you have a point

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

42 minutes ago, BluebirdXO said:

I'll be the most hated person on this forum, but here we go:

 

  Hide contents

The west is overrating the whole thing and making it worse. If Putin backs down now, he'll look like a clown. If he keeps going, more innocents will die. The thought of Ukraine joining NATO was pure insanity and all the other countries have their parcel of guilty in this war

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "overrating" I mean this is affecting people's lives in Ukraine and Russia (and Belarus and the countries taking refugees) to a huge extent. 

The moment you start letting a dictator dictate is the moment you lose your integrity and freedom. Not Russia's decision whether or not Ukraine joins NATO, never was, never will be. 

Fuck that and fuck him

[Blue Ink 5,904]

1 hour ago, BluebirdXO said:

I'll be the most hated person on this forum, but here we go:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The west is overrating the whole thing and making it worse. If Putin backs down now, he'll look like a clown. If he keeps going, more innocents will die. The thought of Ukraine joining NATO was pure insanity and all the other countries have their parcel of guilty in this war

 

I don't think people who say this understand the simple fact that Ukraine can do whatever👏🏻the👏🏻hell👏🏻they👏🏻want. 

Who is Putin to tell other countries what they can and can't do?!

Nobody, absolutely nobody is to blame here except Putin. If he's so pressed about the NATO, maybe he should just join it too.

 

What's the alternative? Every head of state doing as one man in a completely different country pleases and if they don't, they're at fault for him starting a war?? 

 

Nobody provoked him. The Ukraine wants to be more Western and guess what - they can. It really is that simple.

Because again: Putin is not the boss of Ukraine. They can join the Nato whenever they want. Nobody here is at fault except him.

[Get Drunk 17,956]

1 hour ago, BluebirdXO said:

I'll be the most hated person on this forum, but here we go:

 

  Hide contents

The west is overrating the whole thing and making it worse. If Putin backs down now, he'll look like a clown. If he keeps going, more innocents will die. The thought of Ukraine joining NATO was pure insanity and all the other countries have their parcel of guilty in this war

 

Spoiler

 

Period. NATO have been gambling with the lives of the Ukrainian people, and it's begun to backfire. NATO and Ukraine were posing a very real threat to Russia, and Putin responded, it was absurd to expect him not to do something.

 

I said this and got dragged like hell for it, but Ukraine's refusal to back down and declare neutrality is stretching this out further and further. People say Russia has become more and more isolated, but so has Ukraine. Zelensky asked for a no-fly zone, Putin warned against it, NATO listened and refused to impose one. It's becoming very apparent that other countries are staying out of this conflict as much as possible, and people need to start looking at it practically. This isn't going to end with butterflies and rainbows, Ukraine can either keep going with the hopes of turning this into a multi-nation conflict, or they can enter peace talks with the intention of actually making concessions.

 

The most realistic peaceful outcome being a committal to denazify (yes, Ukraine nationalism DOES have nazi elements, ever since WW2. Unlike Germany, however, no extreme steps were taken to denazify the nation. They recently promoted ex-Nazi groups to veteran status, after decades of refusing it. Not saying that it's overrun with Nazism, since obviously that's not true, and I doubt it's even extreme enough of a problem for Putin to care, but not acknowledging it is extremely dangerous). As well as a committal to demilitarise, and to neutrality, followed by Putin's retreat. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Get Drunk 17,956]

41 minutes ago, BlueINK said:

I don't think people who say this understand the simple fact that Ukraine can do whatever👏🏻the👏🏻hell👏🏻they👏🏻want. 

Who is Putin to tell other countries what they can and can't do?!

Nobody, absolutely nobody is to blame here except Putin. If he's so pressed about the NATO, maybe he should just join it too.

 

What's the alternative? Every head of state doing as one man in a completely different country pleases and if they don't, they're at fault for him starting a war?? 

 

Nobody provoked him. The Ukraine wants to be more Western and guess what - they can. It really is that simple.

Because again: Putin is not the boss of Ukraine. They can join the Nato whenever they want. Nobody here is at fault except him.

By this logic, Putin can also do whatever the hell he wants. Ukraine joining NATO is a security risk to Russia, especially with the constantly anti-Russia propaganda America's been feeding us the last few decades (which has intensified over the last 5-6 years.. how many shows came out recently with Russia as the antagonists? Trump blaming Russia for everything, Biden blaming Russia for everything). 

 

If you can't see that NATO expanding closer and closer to Russia is a very, very deliberate act then idk what to tell you.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

I just find it interesting that people continue to cite NATO as the reason for the invasion when Putin himself is not saying that - his reason continues to be "denazification"

And denazification is nonsense (as previously outlined in this thread) so it's clear that he's just trying to find an excuse to bend Ukraine to his will. If anyone is behaving like a nazi, it's Putin with his endless stream of propaganda and aggression.  

And I can't believe people are defending that. 

Fuck the reason, quite frankly. Ukraine has never made any incursions into Russia, only the reverse is true. 

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

42 minutes ago, VioletBunny said:

By this logic, Putin can also do whatever the hell he wants. Ukraine joining NATO is a security risk to Russia, especially with the constantly anti-Russia propaganda America's been feeding us the last few decades (which has intensified over the last 5-6 years.. how many shows came out recently with Russia as the antagonists? Trump blaming Russia for everything, Biden blaming Russia for everything). 

 

If you can't see that NATO expanding closer and closer to Russia is a very, very deliberate act then idk what to tell you.

Putin can do whatever he wants in Russia (which is unfortunate for the people of Russia, but this is how the concept of countries works). 

[Mer 61,213]

54 minutes ago, VioletBunny said:

By this logic, Putin can also do whatever the hell he wants. Ukraine joining NATO is a security risk to Russia, especially with the constantly anti-Russia propaganda America's been feeding us the last few decades (which has intensified over the last 5-6 years.. how many shows came out recently with Russia as the antagonists? Trump blaming Russia for everything, Biden blaming Russia for everything). 

 

If you can't see that NATO expanding closer and closer to Russia is a very, very deliberate act then idk what to tell you.

 

Sure. If "whatever the hell Putin wants" doesn't result in an enormous death toll in a foreign country. 

 

Joining NATO would not be a risk to any Russian civilian, and in all honesty, it wouldn't be a risk to anyone. NATO would not have started bombing Russia if Ukraine joined its ranks. 

 

You can not make such broad and equivocal comparisons. 

[Get Drunk 17,956]

12 minutes ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

I just find it interesting that people continue to cite NATO as the reason for the invasion when Putin himself is not saying that - his reason continues to be "denazification"

And denazification is nonsense (as previously outlined in this thread) so it's clear that he's just trying to find an excuse to bend Ukraine to his will. If anyone is behaving like a nazi, it's Putin with his endless stream of propaganda and aggression.  

And I can't believe people are defending that. 

Fuck the reason, quite frankly. Ukraine has never made any incursions into Russia, only the reverse is true. 

Putin has actually cited NATO and their expansion several times. He cited denazification AND demilitarisation as his reasons for invading, the demilitarisation aspect refers to the NATO situation. 
 

Invading Ukraine and citing NATO as the reason could be considered an aggression towards NATO, but it’s pretty commonly accepted that this is the reason. 
 

Also, Ukraine voted against condemning nazis. Their recent anti-nazi laws are actually anti-socialist laws, in the laws they gave the Ukrainian Nationalist groups during WW2 veteran status (the groups that swore loyalty to Hitler, welcomed him into Ukraine & killed Jews and anyone who defended them). Their badges literally mean Blood & Soil. Jews had to flee Ukraine just as they did Germany. Historically, you had to prove that you fought against the Nazis, and they’ve just stripped that requirement. 
 

Ukrainian nationalism is inherently tied to Nazism, I beg y’all to brush up on your history. I’ve conceded that it’s not enough for Putin to invade, but it really is dangerous to not acknowledge it 

[baddisease 17,653]

3 minutes ago, VioletBunny said:

Putin has actually cited NATO and their expansion several times. He cited denazification AND demilitarisation as his reasons for invading, the demilitarisation aspect refers to the NATO situation. 
 

Invading Ukraine and citing NATO as the reason could be considered an aggression towards NATO, but it’s pretty commonly accepted that this is the reason. 
 

Also, Ukraine voted against condemning nazis. Their recent anti-nazi laws are actually anti-socialist laws, in the laws they gave the Ukrainian Nationalist groups during WW2 veteran status (the groups that swore loyalty to Hitler, welcomed him into Ukraine & killed Jews and anyone who defended them). Their badges literally mean Blood & Soil. Jews had to flee Ukraine just as they did Germany. Historically, you had to prove that you fought against the Nazis, and they’ve just stripped that requirement. 
 

Ukrainian nationalism is inherently tied to Nazism, I beg y’all to brush up on your history. I’ve conceded that it’s not enough for Putin to invade, but it really is dangerous to not acknowledge it 

 

You put it better than I could have. We must acknowledge the full history of Ukraine.

[Get Drunk 17,956]

7 minutes ago, Mer said:

 

Sure. If "whatever the hell Putin wants" doesn't result in an enormous death toll in a foreign country. 

 

Joining NATO would not be a risk to any Russian civilian, and in all honesty, it wouldn't be a risk to anyone. NATO would not have started bombing Russia if Ukraine joined its ranks. 

 

You can not make such broad and equivocal comparisons. 

You absolutely can. A major military alliance surrounding a super power that they’ve only just gotten out of a war (the Cold War) with is not just a causal “oh well”. It’s major. The US have not let up on their anti-Russian propaganda, neither has any other western country. Russia has every right to feel threatened and to take precautions. 

[BluebirdXO 7,679]

1 hour ago, BlueINK said:

I don't think people who say this understand the simple fact that Ukraine can do whatever👏🏻the👏🏻hell👏🏻they👏🏻want. 

Who is Putin to tell other countries what they can and can't do?!

Nobody, absolutely nobody is to blame here except Putin. If he's so pressed about NATO, maybe he should just join it too.

 

What's the alternative? Every head of state doing as one man in a completely different country pleases and if they don't, they're at fault for him starting a war?? 

 

Nobody provoked him. The Ukraine wants to be more Western and guess what - they can. It really is that simple.

Because again: Putin is not the boss of Ukraine. They can join the Nato whenever they want. Nobody here is at fault except him.

 

What I think is pretty much this:

1 hour ago, VioletBunny said:

By this logic, Putin can also do whatever the hell he wants. Ukraine joining NATO is a security risk to Russia, especially with the constantly anti-Russia propaganda America's been feeding us the last few decades (which has intensified over the last 5-6 years.. how many shows came out recently with Russia as the antagonists? Trump blaming Russia for everything, Biden blaming Russia for everything). 

 

If you can't see that NATO expanding closer and closer to Russia is a very, very deliberate act then idk what to tell you.

 

"Who is Putin to tell other countries what they can and can't do?!"

 

I don't know. Who's America to tell other countries what they can and can't do? As far I can tell, America had invaded many countries over the decades and didn't face 1/3 of the hate and sanctions that Russia has been suffering.

 

I'm praying that Ukraine doesn't end up being another Yugoslavia 

 

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

3 minutes ago, VioletBunny said:

Putin has actually cited NATO and their expansion several times. He cited denazification AND demilitarisation as his reasons for invading, the demilitarisation aspect refers to the NATO situation. 
 

Invading Ukraine and citing NATO as the reason could be considered an aggression towards NATO, but it’s pretty commonly accepted that this is the reason. 
 

Also, Ukraine voted against condemning nazis. Their recent anti-nazi laws are actually anti-socialist laws, in the laws they gave the Ukrainian Nationalist groups during WW2 veteran status (the groups that swore loyalty to Hitler, welcomed him into Ukraine & killed Jews and anyone who defended them). Their badges literally mean Blood & Soil. Jews had to flee Ukraine just as they did Germany. Historically, you had to prove that you fought against the Nazis, and they’ve just stripped that requirement. 
 

Ukrainian nationalism is inherently tied to Nazism, I beg y’all to brush up on your history. I’ve conceded that it’s not enough for Putin to invade, but it really is dangerous to not acknowledge it 

I have to go to work so I'll write more later but Zelenskyy is literally Jewish so this is an interesting take

And if Ukraine is full of nazis then Russia sure as fuck is

[baddisease 17,653]

1 minute ago, BluebirdXO said:

 

I'm praying that Ukraine doesn't end up being another Yugoslavia 

 

 

there are some really good books on Yugoslavia that I wish I could share here.

[baddisease 17,653]

Just now, Rorman Nockwell said:

I have to go to work so I'll write more later but Zelenskyy is literally Jewish so this is an interesting take

And if Ukraine is full of nazis then Russia sure as fuck is

 

It wouldn't be the first time a Jewish person serves the purpose of white supremacy. Stephan Miller - from the Trump administration - was a white supremacist.

[Mer 61,213]

“Ukraine has a history of Nazism”. 
 

Ok. We can all research and come to the same conclusion…but what’s the point? At this moment; in this thread—what is your point and purpose of mentioning it?

 

Germany also has deep ties to Nazism (duh), does that mean the wall never should’ve never come down? 
 

I just don’t see the importance of that in this moment I’m sorry. It has nothing to do with what’s being done now. 

[Dark Angel 201,020]

just because a country may have a "nazi problem" it doesn't mean a foreign country has any right to invade & destroy said country & take the lives of 1000s of innocent people, & i gurantee you a large, large majority of the people of ukraine who have died, lost their homes, or had to flee the country, are not nazis

 

i don't see why russia would be so concerned about another country's business anyway? if ukraine really does have a nazi problem, if anything, ukraine should be the country dealing with it's own "nazi problem" instead of another country doing it for them, & ESPECIALLY not with bombs, weapons, & missles

 

many countries have issues with people with harmful viewpoints, very negative histories, etc. with that logic, we should all be invading & tearing apart other countries in the name of dealing with people who have horrible beliefs

[Mer 61,213]

8 minutes ago, VioletBunny said:

You absolutely can. A major military alliance surrounding a super power that they’ve only just gotten out of a war (the Cold War) with is not just a causal “oh well”. It’s major. The US have not let up on their anti-Russian propaganda, neither has any other western country. Russia has every right to feel threatened and to take precautions. 

what?!? You’re calling the invasion of a sovereign country a “precaution”?!?

[baddisease 17,653]

I can't remember, did I post the tweet saying that the Azov Battalion has been shooting Ukrainian people for trying to leave? Because they're doing that.