Lana's alleged sect/cult past

[kik 1,564]

Cults are so fascinating, I'm not surprised she was inspired to write about it since she has an interest in codependency. To know how involved she was, probably not much, if not at all lol!

 

There are different types of cults and some are very hardcore and some are more "respectable" organizations, like Raëlian movement, but honestly, I would avoid them all like the plague. Gurus master the art of manipulation, they are going to brainwash you to eventually totally control you (financially, sexually, psychologically...)

 

I saw a movie about it twelve years ago and I immediately bought the book of an ex member of the sect who told her story. It was a great read, but very disturbing. I didn't care much about the gore, but I wanted to know WHY these members would not leave the sect. Here's some info I found on wiki that explain how powerful these gurus are. Don't read if you are sensitive:

 

Thériault was a charismatic leader[citation needed] and none of the other members questioned his judgment or blamed him for any physical, mental or emotional damage.[3] The Ant Hill Kids raised money for living by selling baked goods[7] and members who didn’t bring in enough money were severely punished. Thériault spied on his members, making sure everybody was completely devoted and punishing those who strayed, claiming that God told him what they did.

 

His punishments were extreme. If a person wanted to leave the commune, Thériault would punish them with either belts, hits from a hammer, suspending them from the ceiling, plucking each of their body hairs individually, or even by defecating on them.[8]

 

Despite his devastating punishments, the members of the Ant Hill Kids never questioned his authority. His punishments included making members break their own legs with sledgehammers, sitting on lit stoves, shooting each other in the shoulders, and eating dead mice and feces. A follower would sometimes be asked to cut off another follower's toes with wire cutters to prove loyalty. The children were not spared, and not only were they sexually abused, but they were also at times held over fires or would be nailed to trees while other children threw stones at them. Thériault was also responsible for the death of his own infant, as he left the child outside during a blizzard.

 

Going back to the original mission of the commune, Thériault strongly believed in purifying his subordinates. He would rid them of their sins through purification sessions where the members would be completely nude as he whipped and beat them. Claiming to be a holy being, Thériault demonstrated his healing powers through surgeries performed on sick members. He would sometimes inject 94% ethanol solution into followers' stomachs, or perform circumcisions on the children and adults of the group.[4]

 

When follower Solange Boilard complained of an upset stomach, Thériault laid her naked on a table, punched her in the stomach, jammed a plastic tube up her rectum to perform a crude enema with molasses and olive oil, then cut open her abdomen, and ripped off part of her intestines with his bare hands. Thériault made another member, Gabrielle Lavallée, stitch her up using needle and thread, and had the other women shove a tube down her throat and blow.[9] Boilard died the next day. Claiming to have power of resurrection, Thériault bore a hole into Boilard's skull with a drill, and then made other male members—along with himself—ejaculate into the cavity.[4]

 

Gabrielle Lavallée underwent harsh treatment herself during the years leading up to 1989. She had suffered through welding torches on her genitals, a hypodermic needle breaking off in her back and even eight of her teeth being forcibly removed.[8] Upon her return, after having escaped from the commune, Thériault removed one of her fingers with wire cutters, pinned her hand to a wooden table with a hunting knife and then amputated her entire arm. The abuse that caused Gabrielle Lavallée to leave, however, is when Thériault cut off parts of her breast and smashed her head in with the blunt side of an ax. She fled and contacted authorities. The cult shut down in 1989, when Thériault was arrested and given a life sentence.[4]

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roch_Th%C3%A9riault

 

WTF, I read that text again and it's so violent it's hard to believe it really happened... Even after he was sentenced, some of his very faithful wives came to visit him at jail and they had more children as they were allowed to use the trailers (federal jails here allow convicts to use them temporarily to meet their significant other with more privacy). That's crazy. How blind can one be.

 

Thériault was found dead near his cell, February 26, 2011, at Dorchester Penitentiary, in New Brunswick. He was 63 years old. His death is believed to be the result of an altercation with his cell mate, Matthew Gerrard MacDonald, 60, of Port au Port, N.L, who killed Thériault and has been charged with the killing.[12][13][14] MacDonald pled guilty to second degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison (having already been serving a life sentence for a previous murder charge). MacDonald stabbed Thériault in the neck with a homemade knife. Afterwards, he walked to the guards' station, handed them the knife and proclaimed, "That piece of shit is down on the range. Here's the knife, I've sliced him up."

 

Jeez...

[CarcrashBandicoot 760]

Doesn't she say in a song how she makes up stories about her life, anyway? I think it was in... Prom Song?

If we don't think about how she makes up stories, it makes much more sense, maybe the cult leaders in this are called "daddies"? lol

 

But seriously, it does tie things together... 

[CarcrashBandicoot 760]

Cults are so fascinating, I'm not surprised she was inspired to write about it since she has an interest in codependency. To know how involved she was, probably not much, if not at all lol!

 

There are different types of cults and some are very hardcore and some are more "respectable" organizations, like Raëlian movement, but honestly, I would avoid them all like the plague. Gurus master the art of manipulation, they are going to brainwash you to eventually totally control you (financially, sexually, psychologically...)

 

I saw a movie about it twelve years ago and I immediately bought the book of an ex member of the sect who told her story. It was a great read, but very disturbing. I didn't care much about the gore, but I wanted to know WHY these members would not leave the sect. Here's some info I found on wiki that explain how powerful these gurus are. Don't read if you are sensitive:

 

Thériault was a charismatic leader[citation needed] and none of the other members questioned his judgment or blamed him for any physical, mental or emotional damage.[3] The Ant Hill Kids raised money for living by selling baked goods[7] and members who didn’t bring in enough money were severely punished. Thériault spied on his members, making sure everybody was completely devoted and punishing those who strayed, claiming that God told him what they did.

 

His punishments were extreme. If a person wanted to leave the commune, Thériault would punish them with either belts, hits from a hammer, suspending them from the ceiling, plucking each of their body hairs individually, or even by defecating on them.[8]

 

Despite his devastating punishments, the members of the Ant Hill Kids never questioned his authority. His punishments included making members break their own legs with sledgehammers, sitting on lit stoves, shooting each other in the shoulders, and eating dead mice and feces. A follower would sometimes be asked to cut off another follower's toes with wire cutters to prove loyalty. The children were not spared, and not only were they sexually abused, but they were also at times held over fires or would be nailed to trees while other children threw stones at them. Thériault was also responsible for the death of his own infant, as he left the child outside during a blizzard.

 

Going back to the original mission of the commune, Thériault strongly believed in purifying his subordinates. He would rid them of their sins through purification sessions where the members would be completely nude as he whipped and beat them. Claiming to be a holy being, Thériault demonstrated his healing powers through surgeries performed on sick members. He would sometimes inject 94% ethanol solution into followers' stomachs, or perform circumcisions on the children and adults of the group.[4]

 

When follower Solange Boilard complained of an upset stomach, Thériault laid her naked on a table, punched her in the stomach, jammed a plastic tube up her rectum to perform a crude enema with molasses and olive oil, then cut open her abdomen, and ripped off part of her intestines with his bare hands. Thériault made another member, Gabrielle Lavallée, stitch her up using needle and thread, and had the other women shove a tube down her throat and blow.[9] Boilard died the next day. Claiming to have power of resurrection, Thériault bore a hole into Boilard's skull with a drill, and then made other male members—along with himself—ejaculate into the cavity.[4]

 

Gabrielle Lavallée underwent harsh treatment herself during the years leading up to 1989. She had suffered through welding torches on her genitals, a hypodermic needle breaking off in her back and even eight of her teeth being forcibly removed.[8] Upon her return, after having escaped from the commune, Thériault removed one of her fingers with wire cutters, pinned her hand to a wooden table with a hunting knife and then amputated her entire arm. The abuse that caused Gabrielle Lavallée to leave, however, is when Thériault cut off parts of her breast and smashed her head in with the blunt side of an ax. She fled and contacted authorities. The cult shut down in 1989, when Thériault was arrested and given a life sentence.[4]

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roch_Th%C3%A9riault

 

WTF, I read that text again and it's so violent it's hard to believe it really happened... Even after he was sentenced, some of his very faithful wives came to visit him at jail and they had more children as they were allowed to use the trailers (federal jails here allow convicts to use them temporarily to meet their significant other with more privacy). That's crazy. How blind can one be.

 

Thériault was found dead near his cell, February 26, 2011, at Dorchester Penitentiary, in New Brunswick. He was 63 years old. His death is believed to be the result of an altercation with his cell mate, Matthew Gerrard MacDonald, 60, of Port au Port, N.L, who killed Thériault and has been charged with the killing.[12][13][14] MacDonald pled guilty to second degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison (having already been serving a life sentence for a previous murder charge). MacDonald stabbed Thériault in the neck with a homemade knife. Afterwards, he walked to the guards' station, handed them the knife and proclaimed, "That piece of shit is down on the range. Here's the knife, I've sliced him up."

 

Jeez...

Ooooh! Think about it!!

 

"Pull my hair, push me down, knock me flat on the ground. Pull my tails, turn me round, baby, do it right now. In the dark, you can do whatever you want to, right now." Push Me Down... Maybe she's talking about it? "King, make me wanna sing, sing for them all."

[Lanakai 662]

vmbb, on 07 Jun 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

 

The first thing that came to my mind is the bunch of Abraham Hicks-videos she liked on youtube..

 

Abrahm Hicks isn't a cult. It's a self help book which plays into self-spiritualism. Nothing about it is organized and it focuses mostly on working within yourself, not other people. In fact you can do the entire Abraham Hicks method on your own. no one else is required for it to work.

 

 

Also, I agree with the "Cult" being AG. It just fits so well. The posts she wrote way back when (around the same time the sex scandal broke in Washington I think) fit with the timeline. Did she say she was in the cult for 7 years though? I think Lana is like my boyfriend and just absolutely horrible about estimating time (ie. when he says that we've been talking about something on the phone for 20 min when in actuality it has been 5 and my phone even shows how long we've been talking for yet he still won't acknowledge he is wrong lol) so I can see why her timeline is all screwy. 7 years might actually be 4, knowing her.

[Pancake Karma 176]

This is odd to hear, but I can't say I don't believe it.

[evilentity 13,348]

I used to be a member of an underground sect which was reigned by a guru. He surrounded himself with young girls and he had this insane charisma I couldn’t resist as well. So I was in this, I’ll call it sect, because I was longing for love and security. But then I found out that this guru wasn’t a good but a bad person. He thought that he had to break people first before he could build them up again. At the end I left the sect.

 

The lyrics also mention a “cult leader,” and Ms. Del Rey said the song looked back to a time soon after she moved to New York City, when she considered following a guru who “believed in breaking you down to build you back up again.”

This specifically mentions New York City, which fits the theory it's about Atlantic Group. But I find the word "guru" interesting. Translations of some of the other interviews where she talked about this used that word, but I was curious to see if that word would show up in an English language interview. I'll post more of my thoughts about that later.

 

While she was waiting for the Kahne album to come out, she got involved with an "East Village guru" who "had an ability to see into the past and read into the future." But she left his orbit after detecting something "sinister" about him.

Lana often used the word "guru" to describe this cult leader. "Guru" often has an Eastern religion connotation

 

In addition to metaphysics in the Aristotelian philosophical sense, Lana also seems to be interested in the metaphysical in the sort of New Age, spiritual, eastern mysticism sense. (Note her field trip to a psychic with her Rolling Stone interviewer.) During her early career in NYC, a number of people around her seem to have been into these types of things as well. On his blogger profile, Tags from Lizzy Grant and the Phenomena lists things like qi and energy healing under his interests, and David Nichtern, founder of 5 Points Records, is a prominent Buddhist teacher. In fact, he founded a sister label, Dharma Moon, dedicated to producing music for meditation and yoga. His son Ethan is also a prominent Buddhist teacher and author.

 

In light of that, I thought these Facebook posts of hers were interesting:

 

 

 

[Rafael 3,513]

^it runs in the family. didnt chuck become a yoga teach recently?

[DeadAgainst 1,515]

 

In addition to metaphysics in the Aristotelian philosophical sense, Lana also seems to be interested in the metaphysical in the sort of New Age, spiritual, eastern mysticism sense. (Note her field trip to a psychic with her Rolling Stone interviewer.) During her early career in NYC, a number of people around her seem to have been into these types of things as well. On his blogger profile, Tags from Lizzy Grant and the Phenomena lists things like qi and energy healing under his interests

 

"Hold my head, it's tilting back

Something dancing me around

Putting crystals on my neck

Lifting my feet off the ground"

 

http://www.thefader.com/2014/06/17/love-death-and-jazz-seven-outtakes-from-our-lana-del-rey-intervie/

 

“I was always looking for a certain group of people who really, you know, had this looming concept of mortality that was always with them, who wanted to know where we came from and why we were here. That’s why I got into metaphysics and let that infuse my art, whether I was painting or singing or just writing for fun. I think if you’re not wondering why you’re here, then, you know, we would have nothing in common. Because I wonder. Like, we’re in Brooklyn and I love the houses, I love the people, but that’s not all there is to my daily experience. I have an inner questioning about what’s it all about. The big, big picture. I’m surprised whenever I don’t get that from people. I don’t know. Maybe because the world isn’t new anymore, you know, everything has sort of been done, and there’s not that many things to experiment with, there’s not that many outlets to try because they’ve all been tried. I think it’s just 2014, it’s a time to sit back and wonder what it’s all about. It’s not a novel question, you know, but it’s just one that I wonder about.”

 

"Just like you said

It's all been done before"

[larina 682]

Someone said that everything Lana says in songs and old posts might just be metaphors.

[pinkbubbles 42]

Reviving this thread to post this article: Inside Superstar Machine, Which Ex-Members Say Is a Cult Preying on New York’s Creative Women

 

Basically, it covers a bizarre self-help "cult" with a figurehead who targets young women working in the NYC entertainment industry. The thing that jogged my memory was the mention of Princess Superstar, who has collaborated with Lana in the past. She even makes an appearance in the comments! Maybe this is what Lana was talking about?

[evilentity 13,348]

Reviving this thread to post this article: Inside Superstar Machine, Which Ex-Members Say Is a Cult Preying on New York’s Creative Women

 

Basically, it covers a bizarre self-help "cult" with a figurehead who targets young women working in the NYC entertainment industry. The thing that jogged my memory was the mention of Princess Superstar, who has collaborated with Lana in the past. She even makes an appearance in the comments! Maybe this is what Lana was talking about?

What do you think the odds are that Poppy is Lana?

[annedauphine 35,948]

What do you think the odds are that Poppy is Lana?

That would be huge considering this 

 

 

 

She instinctively understood that she should be quiet about the fact that she dated both men and women.

 

Edit: And this omg

 

Scherick had specific ideas about what type of sex was best, Poppy adds.

“Having anal sex was a marker of being a true, fierce powerful woman. The length of your orgasms were also markers of how intense your feminine power was.” In the higher levels, she said, “We had phone calls having to share how long our orgasms were, the positions we masturbated in. People were claiming to have like 30-minute orgasms.” 

 

 

[YUNGATA 14,955]

bump for interesting topic

[HawaiianTropic 566]

Something I found interesting from reading that Superstar Machine article is this:

 

 

 

Several women came into the group through Alcoholics or Overeaters Anonymous

 

I really doubt Lana is "Poppy" or any of the other pseudonymous women, but it could be possible she was involved in this group for some period of time. 

 

To me, it also sounds like Princess Superstar's comment is the exact kind of thing Greg would have forced the girls to say to hide the truth of his organization.

 

Another note, there is a "Jim" who appears all over the net linked to the Atlantic Group. Here is a link to a speech he presented. I wonder if there is any correlation between the "Jim" we hear in UV and the "Jim" associated with the Atlantic Group? It would make so much considering Lana has stated before that in UV she is singing about alcohol, and that "Jim" was this figurehead in a group supposedly promoting sobriety. I also found a Bill who was quite prominent on a few sites involved in the Alcoholics Anonymous... could be possible Lana is also referencing him in some of her songs as well? Or just coincidence? I guess we'll never know

[PrettyBaby 2,220]

Reviving this thread to post this article: Inside Superstar Machine, Which Ex-Members Say Is a Cult Preying on New York’s Creative Women

 

 

Very interesting. Disturbingly similar parallels to certain church groups I used to be a part of that advocated gender roles for modern couples. Especially the power dynamics. :shiver: Get the women into groups without men because supposedly they won't ask too many questions... led by "exceptional women" whose job it is to talk up the male guru's superior insight and connection to the divine... bonus points for crying sessions...

 

Not all manipulative groups are in it for the money. I think some people just really get hooked on the social power. Women as well as men. And vulnerable people let themselves get sucked into the dynamic because at least the attention feels better than the solitude or neglect they're used to :'(

[evilentity 13,348]

Another note, there is a "Jim" who appears all over the net linked to the Atlantic Group. Here is a link to a speech he presented. I wonder if there is any correlation between the "Jim" we hear in UV and the "Jim" associated with the Atlantic Group? It would make so much considering Lana has stated before that in UV she is singing about alcohol, and that "Jim" was this figurehead in a group supposedly promoting sobriety.

Hmmm...

 

[nevada darling 541]

Wow!

 

Another note, there is a "Jim" who appears all over the net linked to the Atlantic Group. Here is a link to a speech he presented.

 

I got goose bumps when he said "... and I was off to the races!"

[HawaiianTropic 566]

Wow!

 

 

I got goose bumps when he said "... and I was off to the races!"

 

Honestly, I didn't listen very far into that speech before, but this comment of yours made me want to go back and listen properly, and I actually found a heap of quotes he says that links back to the Lana universe. Some of these might be reaching for the stars and have no connection, but just thought I'd share regardless.

 

Here are some of the things he said and how I relate it back to Lana/UV.

 

"Secretly inside I just wanted to be liked. I mean, it doesn't manifest like that, I might hit you, but I really just want to be liked." (That sounds so similar to "he hit me and it felt like a kiss". Wonder if Lana caught the bad side of this Jim?)

 

"and next thing I know we're off to the races!" (clearly this is a pretty Lana thing to say, maybe she got it off him, or vice versa?)

 

He's also talking about Budweiser beers as well. I've always wondered why Lana wears that Budweiser beer shirt, and had a parodied shirt of it in the Ride video too. I doubt she drinks beer herself.

 

 

 

He also talked about being involved in an armed robbery? Wonder if this perhaps somehow relates to Tropico, and the boyfriend of Lana's that also was involved in armed robbery in the short film? And he also talks about stealing and crashing a car... This is What Makes us Girls teas anyone?

 

"I got down on my knees and said a prayer to a God I don't believe in" (Reminds me of "When I'm down on my knees, you're how I pray", pretty sure these aren't related but just interesting)

 

"I've got these white tennis shoes on" (Swan Song reference anyone? If you also look at Swan Song it's about wanting to escape a life of work and responsibilities. This guy Jim speaks about his past and how he was caught up in a number of businesses, owing large sums of money, and he was basically broke, but also how he overcame that. This seems to fit in quite well with the "you've got your money now, you've got your legacy... let's leave the world for the one's who change everything." It's also quite strange that they're WHITE tennis shoes and not just any shoes)

 

He also makes a joke near the end about how the group is a "cult" and they're gonna "sacrifice a virgin if they can find one". Although it was a joke, I wonder if they were at all cult-like in their behaviour. Sometimes a joke represents a deeper truth. Probably not got anything to do with sacrifices, but it is possible their group is cult-like.

 

Once again, I'd just like to state that these are all just correlations and could very well be mere coincidences and I could be reaching totally for the stars, but it's just peculiar how many things he says remind me of Lana and how well his story seems to fit into the lyrics of Lana's songs.

[SoftcoreBabyface 262]

I listened to some other speeches from the group and multiple people used the phrase ".. and that was it, I was off to the races.." to describe losing control whilst drinking, to the point of black out.

http://soberspeakers.org/?cat=7

 

Also, several of the male speakers jokingly mention cults in their speeches, kind of casually, in passing. It's not made clear why they even bring it up, they just do, and just as quickly they are off to another topic. 

 

Interesting group.

[kitschesque 9,884]

The first thing that came to my mind is the bunch of Abraham Hicks-videos she liked on youtube..

 

I'm aware of this comment being written 3 years ago but can someone share the list of her likes on YouTube or something?