FROGGO

https://youtu.be/3-htwnPdp18

https://youtu.be/IDKMKBmpwrg

@@LoreleiLee I'm not sure if it was you or someone else, but the last time someone asked this I just changed the title for them. As I'm not a regular member, I'm not exactly sure what options are available to regular members. I always edit thread titles using the "Edit Title" option in the "Topic Moderation" dropdown next to the "Reply to this topic" button at the top of the thread, but I imagine not even topic creators have that. If not, perhaps try clicking "Edit" on the OP and then "Use Full Editor". I can edit the topic title there and I imagine regular members may also be able to if they started the topic.

Don't know if this "unpopular," but it is a series of opinions.

 

I remember reading a piece that spearheaded Lana’s importance: holding up the lonely torch of the female depressive in pop culture as a voice that deserves to be heard.

 

I agree with this. It's so easy to see her disaffected nature as a defect, but it's at the core of who she is and why she makes art to begin with. It's what gives her introspection, but also brings forth isolation.

 

Lana's perspective, from a 'marketability' and thematic angle, is one that would have made more sense in the mid 1990s. She would have kindred spirits in Garbage, Tori, Fiona, even Alanis. But in some ways, her perspective is even more needed now, because there is SUCH a lack of diversity in the females we hear from in pop culture, and the kinds of stories they tell. Shirley Manson of Garbage has pointed this out, fittingly enough. We need to hear from the miserable girl, the loser, the ones who don’t want to play nice, and maybe don’t even get out of bed some days. There’s always been a place for that girl in other media: literature, film, art. Music, especially pop music, doesn’t know what to do with this personality type. If it’s Kurt Cobain or Leonard Cohen (or any number of current male indie mini-gods), it’s tortured genius. If it’s a woman doing it, it’s pathetic, INDULGENT solipsism. How dare you be so lazy, inwardly focused and torpid when there are SOCIAL ISSUES to examine and crusade. That's the attitude Lana faces.

 

 We live in the age of the Totally Transparent, Fervently Disciplined, and Manicured Go-Getter. Taylor. Katy. Demi. Even Rihanna. They are corporate workhorses, THIRSTY for the fame, and more than ready to play and stay in the game. The personality type this workload requires is not for the delicate, sensitive, ambivalent type. They don’t look inward. They are fixated on the crowd. You see these same types in offices all over the world. Type A middle managers. They get shit done, might seem like “team players” (dictators in disguise), but they aren’t interesting and don’t offer a lot of innovation or insight into life, creativity, or much else. I’m sure the economic collapse of the past 10 years and the wreckage of the music industry has a lot to do with why this middle manager pop star archetype has prevailed. It’s sheer survivalism. 

 

The truth is the Lana of Born To Die, and that album itself, is an anomaly. It’s a character study in what it would be like to be a famous pop star. In philosophy, there’s an idea that to create a character, you have to lack what that character has for it to work (Homer vs Achilles is a classic example.) Lana was never a natural star by any means, but she’s clearly seen it as a way to transcend herself or try to another skin on. (“Give a man a mask and he’ll tell you the truth.” - Oscar Wilde.) To parallel her to Britney, Lana never has had a pre-Blackout glory era. This is where I think some LDR fans get it wrong. BTD was not her Baby One More Time or Oops! or whatever. Even on BTD, she was a propped-up simulacrum of what a pop icon might be like. She represented the IDEA. It was NEVER natural. She was the weirdo philosophy major playing dress up as the cool girl, singing into her mirror. The fact that she found an audience is a small miracle, but her intuitive habitat is still dancing around, alone, with her headphones on, wondering what it would be like to be onstage. The actual stage is foreign to her, and almost besides the point. I bet when she’s up there, she imagines being alone.

 

Look at ALL her work before, and after, BTD. The work of an outsider dreaming her life away, imagining that fame could transform her, fulfill her, then finding nothing there. Even before she became famous, the lyrics suggest she already was aware of its empty promise (probably due to her study of doomed cult icons). If anything, what she’s doing now is getting back to her roots: turning her LACK of fulfillment into art, trying to make something tangible of a void within. It’s hard work, and clearly she’s not always up to making it a complete vision. To create and share art is an attempt to tell your story in the hopes of CONNECTING with people. But that’s where it stops for Lana. In solitude, she records her vision then hits “send.” Then she disengages, unable to sustain the ideal in real-time. Unable to fulfill the pop duties. Unable to deliver the big pay off, for herself, or for her fans. It’s like a surrealist film that cuts off in the ‘wrong’ moment, just to leave you on edge. How many times can you get away with it? We’ll be finding out.

 

And that’s another thing. I think Lana’s “failure” to rise the occasion affects certain fans personally. Not just because they want her to get a Top 10 and compete with the ‘normal’  pop stars. But because maybe they, too, are depressed and know too well what it means to not deliver, to not function optimally, to disappoint people. When you’re depressed, being able to complete ANYTHING can feel like an insurmountable challenge. If you’re blessed with the strange mix of being both ambitious AND prone to depression, you are constantly at war with yourself, which Lana seems to be. Sometimes she has the energy to fight through it and deliver us true magic. These are her little victories. Other times, she drowns in her own ennui and forgets everyone but herself. Some fed up fans say she doesn’t care, but I don’t believe this is true. I’m sure she’s in a state of frequent frustration, with the “world,” but more often, with herself.

 

Part of what drew me — and many others, I’m sure — to Lana’s work and persona was that she seemed malcontented, if not quite tormented. Life is too much, and not enough, for her. I remember that little-known Gwen Stefani lyric (“I sip on dreams and choke on real things.”) To me, that’s Lana constant M.O. She wants desperately to escape, to isolate, and to never work another day again (the ultimate sin of today’s life-hack-driven, entrepreneurial, “optimize yourself!” digital nomad climate). She never makes it clear what it IS, exactly, that would make her happy, because what she’s asking for is impossible. A LOT of people empathize with this ambivalence, despite the fact that this passive, me vs. the world view of reality is literally censored out of modern day music. You’re not supposed to complain! Things will get better if you live, laugh, and love! LDR will never live, laugh and love first-hand, but she’ll always wonder what that might feel like. And pine for it like its her to mourn.

 

Female depressives can sustain a career. It doesn’t have to end in a Sylvia Plath/Amy Winehouse tragedy. Shirley Manson and Fiona Apple are still going strong 20 years down the line, and in some ways, seem more connected and ‘healthy’ than ever, while still finding a way to channel their grievances through their art. They’ve evolved their artistry to a level that is undeniably iconic. They will never top the charts again, but that was never the point. They have huge cult followings that will always follow their next move. It’s a family. I’d love for Lana to have this in her 40s, too, but I believe at some point she’ll have to start making art as part of a conversation, not just a soliloquy, for this to happen. 

does the dog kind of look like lana vice versa or am i losing it

Your speciesism is showing.

tbh! seconds away from unstanning lana to stan 4 dogna

Omg that dog slayed me QUEEN/KING!!!!!

some new ones 
and also some untagged ones

First the headdress, now this. Forget appropriation. This is avicide! #BirdLivesMatter  

Cool. I'm wearing scalps and shrunken heads this Halloween. Don't have pictures though.

also why does it look like the beginning of a retro gangbang porno

the only time she smiles on a magazine cover is when she's literally lying on top of 4 dicks 

Aubrey is a perfectly male name and are you seriously trying to shame him for having a supposedly girl's name? Are you still living in the 60s?
Also wikipedia says that Drake is his second name so how the hell is it supposed to be a phony name? You're so quick to put down other artists in order to elevate Lana to the status of all the legendary artists from the past

shes a niche act, she always was, she just got lucky [and sounded a bit more accessible] with btd. the sales of ultraviolence were a side effect to the huge numbers of btd.
 
i dont know why some of you are watching charts and figures daily. her sales are only going to go down from here. some big name acts cant even sell that much, as if lana isnt going to suffer the same fate.
 
shes not taylor swift, we arent going to see her huge rise to fame over a decade with huge booming first week sales and world arena shows. her success was always going to shrink as she kept releasing music. especially when she DOESN;T sell herself like a damn popstar half the time.
 
its like some of you are completely unaware of the artist you've been following for the past 4 damn years.
 
shes debuting at #2 and top 5 in a lot of territories and you're disappointed????

its definitely meant to be degrading towards women primarily - which is why men are now using it towards each other to make a statement about how 'weak' (feminine) they're acting. 

It's been fucking 5 years already, let it go. She's older, shit has happened to her after that. 

You did give me an indication that it was talking about me. You said it in the context of quoting a characterization of my argument and then saying "That's what it eventually boils down to". You've clarified now and I take you at your word that that was not what you intended, but don't blame me for the unclarity. 

Disagreement =/= invalidation.

I'll listen if my internet ever decides to work properly I understand what you're saying, but the main thing with bitch is that it's so casually used in sexist ways. In gaming outside of calling someone a bitch under your circumstances, you're told to "stop playing like a bitch" if your team is loosing. It's the equivalent of "stop playing like a girl" "you shoot like a girl". The problem with your last sentence is that "bitchy" is generally referred to female emotions. If a guy is complaining and their friend says "stop acting bitchy" it generally refers to them "complaining like a woman" Even though they might be doing something annoying, referring to them as a sexist term isn't really an appropriate response. Why not say "stop being annoying" instead of "stop acting like a bitch?"  
 
I just have issues with men assuming they have the right to reclaim and redefine a sexist word against women. If white people started "reclaiming" the n-word and used it in a joking away against friends and saying things along the lines of "I'm not using it towards black people, I'm using it towards everyone, so it's not racist" it wouldn't take away the history of it nor make it any less offensive. Azealia saying f*ggot means (paraphrasing) 'any man who hates women' it doesn't take away the homophobic context of the word nor does it give her the right to use it because she feels like her definition is correct. Just because people say bitch in a non-sexist way doesn't mean it's not sexist. My father in law drops the n-word almost every minute yet swears he's not racist, but that's a whole other discussion 

Here's my two cents.
 
  As a black bi woman, Azealia has the right to reclaim derogatory terms pertaining to her race, sexuality and gender only. Can she say dyke? Yes. That term has historically used against bi and lesbian women. Can she use the n-word? Despite local race myths (I can explain if anyone actually cares) black people are the only ones that can truly be hurt by the word, so yes she has every right to use it. Can she say bitch? Yes. It has historically has been used against women during rape, abuse and shaming tactics.
 
 The whole "men are called bitch too" argument is ridiculous. The only time men are called bitches is when their manhood is being compared to womanhood, aka being compared to a woman is supposed to make them feel inferior... because they view women as being inferior. When a guy is called a pussy he doesn't get mad at the word, he gets mad at being compared to a woman... It's saying "you're not strong like a man, you're weak like a woman." To a lot of men, possessing any female characteristics is wrong, in someways their thinking is not only sexist, but homophobic. It leads to the thought of "I'm not a real man if I like this, it'll make me act girly.. it'll make me gay" which is an obvious problem in itself. I think the female perspective of the bitch that's something a lot of y'all are missing. If I threw around the word f*g all the time, a lot of you would rightfully be angry at me trying to use a word that has most likely been used against you in a hateful manor. What if someone on here was called a f*g while they were getting beat or bullied for being gay? It would be pretty "bitchy" of me to continue using the word towards and completely ignore the history they've suffered because of it. Yet most of you find it okay to constantly use a word bitch directly towards me. To me, when a man calls me a bitch, it brings me back to points of my life when I was abused, being choked, punched and spit on while being told how much of a "fucking bitch" I was for doing nothing more than speaking to a man in the wrong way. I've said this over and over again, yet people view the word bitch as a joke. Just because you haven't felt the hatred behind a word doesn't mean 
 
Back to Azealia; she has no right to say f*g because that term has historically been used as a slur against gay men. Has it been used towards other sexualities? Yes, but her being called f*g isn't comparable to the history of hatred that term has associated with gay men. I'm white and as a child I was called a "n*gglet" because my grandpa was 1/2 black, but that doesn't give me the right to use the n-word nor does it mean that I've been oppressed by that word nor will I ever feel any real social racism due to that word. As a white woman, it doesn't impact me in the same ways. Though I was called a racial slur for my racial ancestry, it in no way compares to someone calling Azealia the n-word. I would never use the terms "race card" "gender card" or "gay card" because I think in a lot of ways it's an excuse for outside ignorance and takes away from the seriousness of the issues, but, I do think that Azealia assumes that because she's oppressed in some aspects of society she's able to use oppressive terms towards other minorities, which isn't the case. If Lucy Liu called Azealia the n-word everyone would lose their shit, but I'm sure Azealia wouldn't have a problem calling her any racist terms. 

1. Thanks for the unneeded explanation for something not even directed toward you.2. Did I say you? No.
3. You're MUCH older than me so you should already understand that the only reason those words exist are because you guys created shit like n*gger, ch*nk, sp*c among other racially insensitive term directed to hurt minorities and if cracker, mayo or any food that resembles pale skin offends you, I feel bad for you.

this is me. i am a bitchfag. 

I generally disagree with anything @@CarcrashBandicoot has to say about anything having to do with race, and I'm not quite sure his point actually addresses the point @@Atom Heart was trying to make (because I'm not sure if @@Atom Heart's point was merely that Azealia Banks use of the n-word is a reclamation, or if he was also arguing that her use of the f-word should be considered a reclamation). At any rate, I do think he's raising an important issue here that I haven't seen a lot of her defenders grapple with: Are reclaimed slurs still OK when they're derogatory and intended as a slur? I think there is arguably some license for derogatory use of reclaimed slurs for in-group criticism (like perhaps Chris Rock's controversial "Niggas vs. Black People" routine), but I'm not sure this meets the standard of acceptability. I mean, imagine if the steward was black and she called him a "fucking :)" or a gay male celebrity had called the steward a "fucking faggot" in that tone of voice. Maybe it's not as bad as if it had come from someone else, but I still don't think it's OK. 
But I also question whether Azealia should get the in-group pass here some defenders have been trying to give her. Sure, she's bisexual. So I'd concede that her membership in the broader LGBT community arguably gives her license to use the word in a positive manner. But should her being bisexual automatically be enough to excuse her derogatory use of a slur reserved for gay men when she is not a gay man and not part of the specific community it refers to? I'd argue not. (To me, that would be about as logical as saying non-black POC should have license to use the n-word derogatorily just because they're part of the broader minority community oppressed by white people.) Especially since her history of using the word "faggot", and other things she's said about gay men, seem to indicate she has a problem with gay men, and especially with anything "effeminate" about them.

https://youtu.be/3-htwnPdp18

https://youtu.be/IDKMKBmpwrg

MTWBT is one of her weakest music videos so far. Everything's so random and there is no f*cking atmosphere at all. The way the scenes themselfes are, they COULD be cut in a way that would at least fit the music, but they decided to just put random scenes together. Instead of Lana looking flawless watching boys we get some random scenes of her smiling happily or chilling in a garden without even trying to pose in an interesting way plus a super awkward shot of her playing the guitar. The MALE models are unneccecary since they don#t really get the attention they should get and the underwater scenes are nice but the way they are used makes them less interesting and enchanting than they could be.
Unlike Ultraviolence or Ride it doesn't even try to be something it's not. It's just ... there and not exciting at all. Shame, the song could have been used so well.
Like, Lana observing the guys and then taking them for a sailing trip or to a lonely beach and then the underwater sirens appear and drag the boys down, while Lana goes off to search for some new prey. Or if they didn't want to take a story-telling video, they could have something better in terms of vibes, music-fitting images and stuff.

Well, I didn’t expected that I will have to witness to her career crumbling so soon.
 
Many of you will say that’s nothing wrong with selling 200k globally in the first week: “music not the bling”. I would respond to you that by December HM will be off the charts everywhere and will struggle to reach 750k in global sales (and I’m optimistic here). If this numbers become reality she went from selling roughly 6 mil. in the BTD+Paradise to 750k, she’ll shrunk roughly 8 times in just 2 years. I don’t have the exact figures from her streaming data but my impression is that her streaming is also in the pits.
 
But not the numbers are bothering me really, they are just symptoms of a bigger change in Lana’s perception lately.
  
From what I saw from the internet, the HM launch was practically a non-event. No one cares about her album. Everybody is polite, fans and critics alike, but in 2 weeks no one will talk about the album. She has no hits, no radio play, no good videos, no performances, nothing.
 
I sense in Lana lately a certain giddiness about HM, maybe she’s happy that the album was relatively well received by the critics. She seems ready to communicate more with the fans. But soon she will have to face a new reality that her music isn’t ignite to much interest in people anymore. It will be a big hit for her and I don’t know how she’ll take it.
 
I’m surprised by this because I (and many others) always had the impression that she has a lot of dedicated fans and she’s immune to promotion because she’ll be able to produce certain numbers. Well, it seems that this perception of her was a collective delusion. The latest delusional piece is from one of the rare stans of her music in the American media, Sasha Frere-Jones who called her “ice queen of pop”. While I’m agreeing with the ice part, I have to laugh when he calls her “queen of pop”. How is Lana a “queen” when she’s afraid of performing her music before the GP? She was/is less a star, in the traditional sense of the term, she was more a hyped curiosity on the internet. She lived well of this situation until the internet hype slowed down: in 2015, LDR has become an afterthought and her album launch a non-event. The hardcore fans will keep her in the charts for the 1-2 weeks but beyond them is a big empty space and it’s sad because her music it’s better than that.
 
But how she got in this place anyway? We live in a world where perceptions can quickly change because of the internet and you can ruin your image in a short amount of time (see Iggy).Well, Lana did everything in her power to ruin her career in 2014 with this “it’s my party and I crash it if I want too” attitude which resulted in random behavior, trolling, canceled shows, irresponsible interviews and a total neglect of her material. At that time I didn’t thought that this will affect her to much because I liked UV but for the GP and for many casual fans she became quickly annoyingly boring. Honeymoon continued the trend with the depressive music and a total carelessness towards presenting her material. She did nothing besides that promotional stint with UO which didn’t helped the promotion of the album, on the contrary.
 
Regarding the music, without the campiness of BTD, UV and the ice cold HM are just incredibly difficult listens and she doesn’t have the artistic credibility to pull them off. If she’s fantasizing about a career like that of Bjork she’s deluding herself, remember what Auerbach said about her in the RS interview that she’s not respected in the business. But her biggest problem is that, at 30, she still cannot sing live properly and this is so off-putting even for a long time fan as me.
 
I’m depressed because I don’t see how she can turn around her career. I don’t see her improving dramatically live or investing more in her artistic output. I think that she’s heading towards the Marina category of artists but I don’t think that she’ll take it well: from Glastonbury to Sziget it’s a huge demotion even for someone like Lana who doesn’t seem to care. 

Literally I haven't seen any praise for Art Deco. It's actually one of my favorites. I love it when she calls me ghetto.