Summersault

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.
 
And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...
 
1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 
 
2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....
 
3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.
 
So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
 
It has become increasingly clear through the years that Lana is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from the media and tastemakers in general. And yes, she did get a lot of unwarranted and unfair criticism at first. I can understand being mad about it and speaking on it. However it seems like she's completely unable to weigh it up against the rivers of critical acclaim and accolades she has recieved since the years after her debut. She's it very bitter still and it clouds her judgement sometimes. 
 
She's so keen on framing herself as the percecuted artist that she doesn't see the bigger picture and how other female artists - of colour or not - are also treated unfairly by the media a lot. Maybe not in the completely same way but unfairly none the less. It's a bad look to frame them as somehow different from herself in that regards.
 
Love her to death, but I'm only half joking when I say she needs a spin doctor who can help formulate her thought on politics and society. Almost everytime she tries to get political she kinda puts her foot in her mouth. Often because her persecution complex gets in the way of her valid points. It's a real shame cause I genuinely think she has some interesting takes.

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.
 
And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...
 
1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 
 
2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....
 
3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.
 
So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.
 
And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...
 
1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 
 
2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....
 
3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.
 
So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
 
It has become increasingly clear through the years that Lana is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from the media and tastemakers in general. And yes, she did get a lot of unwarranted and unfair criticism at first. I can understand being mad about it and speaking on it. However it seems like she's completely unable to weigh it up against the rivers of critical acclaim and accolades she has recieved since the years after her debut. She's it very bitter still and it clouds her judgement sometimes. 
 
She's so keen on framing herself as the percecuted artist that she doesn't see the bigger picture and how other female artists - of colour or not - are also treated unfairly by the media a lot. Maybe not in the completely same way but unfairly none the less. It's a bad look to frame them as somehow different from herself in that regards.
 
Love her to death, but I'm only half joking when I say she needs a spin doctor who can help formulate her thought on politics and society. Almost everytime she tries to get political she kinda puts her foot in her mouth. Often because her persecution complex gets in the way of her valid points. It's a real shame cause I genuinely think she has some interesting takes.

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.
 
And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...
 
1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 
 
2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....
 
3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.
 
So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.
 
And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...
 
1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 
 
2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....
 
3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.
 
So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

Honestly, she posted her feelings and that's how she genuinely felt. She was going to be dragged for posting anything on the subject, unless she wrote a 12 page article, explaining the history of women in music, black women in music, how the type of music she's making is actually quite close to the kind of music black women create, then going into how each of those black women have also been dragged from the start of the careers for making that kind of music. Then explaining the misgivings of feminism, how now mainstream music supports music that is considered sex positive and empowering. Now Lana sometimes makes music that white feminists consider regressive and damaging (because it is not necessarily sex positive), but it's the reverse side of the same coin. She is being dragged because she was not articulate in voicing her concern which was all women artists should be able to create art that reflects their genuine experience. Her mistake was being genuine and writing from her heart. While I do not think she was being racist, I think she should have reread her post and been like hmmm, this is 6 women of color and Ariana Grande, maybe I should elaborate more on what I mean here.
 
The fact that men are often left out of this conversation, and allowed to succeed, even though there are many male artists who create music that glamorizes victimizing women is also glaring. These men are actors who perpetuate violence, while Lana writes about being in love with men, and staying with abusive men (which is a harsh reality of abusive relationships), she writes about something out of her control, where these men write about being in control.... We allow men to create, but women have to fight and are often put against each other.

I really do agree that people trying to make it directly a racist comment are reaching.
 
And I agree with your interpretation of what she was trying to say. But...
 
1. It was poorly worded. It takes a very kind reading to not get the impression that she's painting herself in a very poetic light compared to her descriptions of the other artists. Not my biggest grievance with her letter, but it is quite poorly worded. 
 
2. It skips over the part where litterally all female artist are criticized for their sexuality or held to double standards at some point. That doesn't mean that they should stay quiet about it, but it's really is tonedeaf of Lana to single herself out as different from those female artists. Especially because....
 
3. Lana has been quite succesful and reached critical acclaim in spite of her critics. She keeps peddling the "woe is me, media hates me" narrative when NFR was one of the most acclaimed albums of 2019. I'm not saying she can't still be justifiably mad about her earlier critics, but she needs to acknowledge her succes at least a little in order to not come off as spoiled. SO many other artists never reach her level of fame or are able to have the kind of artistic freedom she has, and it's not unreasonable to say that less privileged female artists' careers wouldn't have survived the backlash she recieved at first. She doesn't have to apologize for being white or coming from an affluent background but to paint herself as more silenced and distraught than her peers is just... tonedeaf.
 
So yes her point stands, but I see plenty of things wrong with the execution. It takes a very kind reading not to.  And we all know Twitter don't do kind readings

Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
 
It has become increasingly clear through the years that Lana is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from the media and tastemakers in general. And yes, she did get a lot of unwarranted and unfair criticism at first. I can understand being mad about it and speaking on it. However it seems like she's completely unable to weigh it up against the rivers of critical acclaim and accolades she has recieved since the years after her debut. She's it very bitter still and it clouds her judgement sometimes. 
 
She's so keen on framing herself as the percecuted artist that she doesn't see the bigger picture and how other female artists - of colour or not - are also treated unfairly by the media a lot. Maybe not in the completely same way but unfairly none the less. It's a bad look to frame them as somehow different from herself in that regards.
 
Love her to death, but I'm only half joking when I say she needs a spin doctor who can help formulate her thought on politics and society. Almost everytime she tries to get political she kinda puts her foot in her mouth. Often because her persecution complex gets in the way of her valid points. It's a real shame cause I genuinely think she has some interesting takes.

whew idk how to feel about her comments about the statement now that I’ve read lanaboards. but all that I can say is that I think she really needs to take a step back and take everything in and maybe make something good of this. she’s a smart woman but she can do dumb things sometimes and this was one of them. I’m a die-hard lana stan and I’d always put anything aside to defend her; but this wasn’t the right situation to do that because she really did mess up. I’m sure her intentions were good with the statement but the delivery was just awfully executed and things escalated. twitter can be such an awful and toxic place and this situation just proved that. I’m really hoping that she’s okay and I’m wishing her the best. I’d never turn my back on lana for a situation as taken out of context as this one (sorry I just love these emoticons hehe)

i really wish lana could be strong enough to not care about backlash and controversy. i think she is the one holding herself back. when you look at the transition from UV to honeymoon you can really see how she stopped letting us in so much.
 
why does she have to identify as a feminist? why does she have to have all the supposedly "correct" opinions to be respected? why can't she be messy and real? one reason i adore her unreleased songs is because of the endless imagination and fantasy she expresses in them. she created her own world. she wrote herself into existence. that's what i want--not some sanitized PC bullshit. the problem is lana is too sensitive and wants to be adored as much as she wants to express her true self. but you can't please everyone and she shouldn't bother. i'd respect her a lot more if she grew thicker skin.

The sad thing is that, even in the beginning with BTD and Paradise, she seemed to be firmly in control and somewhat 'above it all.' She was a sort of new, fresh pop goddess. That's what attracted me to her.
 
But about the time of the public feud with Lorde, the disastrous SNL appearance and into the early UV period, and ever since, she's seemed scattered, broken, unsure of who she is and what she wants to project as an artist, a woman and an individual. The terrible NFR rollout is part of that, and so is this rant, which seems poorly considered, though I understand what she's attempting to say. She's just not saying it well, not the first, not the second. 

Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
 
It has become increasingly clear through the years that Lana is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from the media and tastemakers in general. And yes, she did get a lot of unwarranted and unfair criticism at first. I can understand being mad about it and speaking on it. However it seems like she's completely unable to weigh it up against the rivers of critical acclaim and accolades she has recieved since the years after her debut. She's it very bitter still and it clouds her judgement sometimes. 
 
She's so keen on framing herself as the percecuted artist that she doesn't see the bigger picture and how other female artists - of colour or not - are also treated unfairly by the media a lot. Maybe not in the completely same way but unfairly none the less. It's a bad look to frame them as somehow different from herself in that regards.
 
Love her to death, but I'm only half joking when I say she needs a spin doctor who can help formulate her thought on politics and society. Almost everytime she tries to get political she kinda puts her foot in her mouth. Often because her persecution complex gets in the way of her valid points. It's a real shame cause I genuinely think she has some interesting takes.

Yes, I think you're absolutely right.
 
It has become increasingly clear through the years that Lana is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from the media and tastemakers in general. And yes, she did get a lot of unwarranted and unfair criticism at first. I can understand being mad about it and speaking on it. However it seems like she's completely unable to weigh it up against the rivers of critical acclaim and accolades she has recieved since the years after her debut. She's it very bitter still and it clouds her judgement sometimes. 
 
She's so keen on framing herself as the percecuted artist that she doesn't see the bigger picture and how other female artists - of colour or not - are also treated unfairly by the media a lot. Maybe not in the completely same way but unfairly none the less. It's a bad look to frame them as somehow different from herself in that regards.
 
Love her to death, but I'm only half joking when I say she needs a spin doctor who can help formulate her thought on politics and society. Almost everytime she tries to get political she kinda puts her foot in her mouth. Often because her persecution complex gets in the way of her valid points. It's a real shame cause I genuinely think she has some interesting takes.

whats sadder is that you can imagine the valid criticism and points people were making were probably the last messages she took from all this.  when tons of people are sending you explicit hate,  most of it totally unwarranted,  i doubt her takeaway has been the few people who attempted to criticize the post with valid concerns
 
i want to believe this is why she doubled down, and seemingly wasn't able to see what some were trying to say.... because i think the natural response to having your words taken this way, would be 'im SO sorry for making it seem that way, that wasn't what i meant at all' 
 
like where's her apology to all the WOC she hurt?   i think if this wasn't so explosive, she'd be able to see her words hurt people she wasn't intending to

it's not so much a direct correlation or inspiration issue, but lana created both an industry & gp market for a certain kind of ~alternative packaged but still very much mainstream / pop oriented whispercore darkpop women singers~, that's undeniable. not to say that these things didn't previously exist (see: mazzy star, fiona apple, the entire shoegaze genre) but their audience was very different & the mainstream appeal almost non-existent beyond a hit song or two.

Thank you for writing this. I wholeheartedly agree and feel the frustration and complications.

Now that I've had time to digest this a bit more, I'mma say my piece.
 
Short version/ Summary:
Girlfriend is in her feelings right now (and I'm sad for her) but she made a major mis-step that she could have used as an opportunity for growth but instead quadrupled down; I'm disappointed in her but will still support her musically because nothing can take her music and its meaning away from me; Twitter cancel culture is going overboard but there is validity behind the points POC (including myself in there) have made; I don't consider Lana racist but she does not recognize the privilege she has experienced compared to the women she included in her post; Lana thwarted her own intended meaning of her post by the aggressive tones throughout, especially in the beginning; both this and her response overshadowed the rest of what she had to say about the perception of her glamorizing abuse, which she made valid points about.
 
Longer version:
I'm genuinely sad that Lana was clearly hurt by something that led her to make the post in the first place. I do believe her *intention* was not to openly dismiss the women she named, but once you put your words out there, you have to realize they're not quite solely yours anymore, and can be open to interpretation. Which I'd imagine was the point of sharing it in the first place, as it was labeled as a "question for the culture." A lot of people who end up being involved in race-related interactions don't have the intention of going there, and I don't believe Lana did. But intent only goes so far. It seems like a lot of people here don't want to hear it, but the POC who shared their concerns made valid points about the racial bias and Lana's inability to see how, despite her own legitimate difficulties in the industry, she has benefited from her privilege in ways the other artists she named have not.
 
While some may say it's not up to her to "correct" what she meant to say, the way she responded in those four follow-ups, after spending the day deleting comments (whether it was her or her team is irrelevant) was more tone-deaf than the original post. A lot of the more blind stans will say this is unimportant (which is concerning), but I do believe she lost some fans of color, and that is sad. Because it didn't have to be that way. Lana could have more maturely addressed her mis-step rather than leaping into quicksand with those four follow-up comments and her #fuckoff post. And doing so doesn't automatically mean she would have "catered to the public" or "backed down." She had an opportunity for growth, and she didn't take it, opting instead to react from a place of anger and low vibration. It's not "ICONIC" or a "kween" moment, as now this is what people (GP though I know no one here cares about that) will focus on, rather than her legitimate concerns about the general perception of her glamorizing abuse. She played herself, and it baffles me that stans don't see that. I'm legitimately concerned that stans are all "haters don't have reading comprehension! lolz" when Lana herself clearly has the inability to comprehend how her word choices contributed to this mess. It's not a good look, and while it's not career-ending, it's at least a derailment/ distraction of sorts. And I don't want that for her.
 
Lastly, I still love her and support her music because she/ the music means so much to me.  

Lmao.... Shes talking about women who are soft spoken and when they try and stand their ground men dont take them seriously. Happens to me alot. Happens alot in Korean culture aswell. Men don’t take your “no” seriously because they see you as submissive and think they can force whatever they want on you. Its not solely a sexual thing. It happens in all sorts of ways.

I know this has probably already been discussed, but can someone explain to me what does the "the kind of woman who says no but men hear yes" sentence really means? i read a lot of people saying they find it very disturbing, that she's romantizicing r*pe and etc. maybe she was trying to portrait herself (like she said later in the comments) as someone who doesn't always looks strong, or like she's in control? to be honest i don't understand what she meant with that at all neither, but going back to the first statement, can someone explain please? i've been thinking a lot about it and whatever she wanted to say with it i think it sounds a little bit weird and out of touch

idk i read her statement not as overtly racist but not really recognizing how her own privilege, as a wealthy white woman in america, played into it.  she has done and said racist stuff in the past.  even very recently.  i posted whole things on lanaboards months ago about her blindness to racial dynamics in her 3 part video throwing shit at cops and laughing with no fear of being shot and killed.  compare that to beyonce making a video with powerful statements about Black resilience in the face of racist policing and police brutality and getting a bunch of republicans talking about lynching her or how shes "anti american" or some shit.  she wore a headdress in the Ride video while saying "i believe in the place america used to be" (presumably referring to... idk the '70s?  def not pre-colonialism).  she dated a TV cop who engaged in racial profiling on his stupid tv show and said hes "one of the good ones".....  there's a precedent for people thinking she's ignorant and blind to the racial subtext of the shit she puts out.
 
i think Lana specifically referencing mostly Black women - then proceeding into an angry post ab the backlash she's gotten -  reads as her slating those artists as her competition, or not getting backlash, or having advantages over her or whatever. which would be dismissing those artists experiences.  re-reading it, i can see how possibly she didn't mean it like that.  but i dont think its insanity for people to read the subtext of a white woman complaining that these (more) popular Black artists are more successful than her or not as attacked as her or something.  she really made it sound like that.
 
i also think its an incredibly white privilege-y thing to say "oh well this definitely isnt about race."  i think race dynamics play a much larger role in society than a lot of white people are willing to acknowledge.  part of what's interesting about this generation is how these issues ARE coming into the mainstream consciousness more.  and i think Lana, if she wants to be taken seriously like she says, should pay more attention to that.  idk, is she not not racist or not not anti-racist?
 
BEYOND the race thing, her whole point is that she wasn't glamorizing abuse.  WHY then, has she recently done things such as stop singing "Cola" bc of how it glamorizes a Harvey Weinstein-esque predatory relationship or "he hit me and it felt like a kiss"?  she clearly thinks those things are problematic.  i think its possible Lana has faced abusive or exploitative scenarios and relationships in her life, if her music is to be taken as autobiographical to some extent.  she literally started out singing about Lolita relating the story to herself.  which is straight up about an underage girl being abused and exploited by a narcissistic older man.  she may not be glamorizing it.  and i dont think acknowledging the reality of those dynamics is bad.  but she could use her story as a way to advocate for women instead of being "not not a feminist."

The fact that people think she’s racist... the post has no racist undertones whatsoever I’m shocked people are even saying that. Sure she sounded ignorant, but in no way was she diminishing what the people she listed have gone through. I think she’s saying now that people can release whatever they want without extensive think pieces, can critics lay off being overly critical with her work/themes/lyrical content. That’s all. And sorry but none of these celebs ever back her up. Wack ass industry. But again (like her mothers day post) she should’ve just vented to her friends or smt... this didn’t need to be posted.

I’m sorry but people calling camlia and ari black is sending me. I know it’s not on purpose but I-