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Ultra Violet

Israel-Palestine conflict (Israel-Hamas war)

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9 minutes ago, Noam said:

 

These are women and minors (14 and up, teenagers) that engaged in terrorist actions such as stabbing, throwing stones and Molotov cocktails towards innocent civilians and soldiers. They are not innocent.

I think you were talking about the prisoners to be released soon, but you might want to read a bit more about other prisoners Israel has taken and how they have unlawfully treated Palestinians that are not actually doing violent things, like this a couple of years ago:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2021/06/israeli-police-targeted-palestinians-with-discriminatory-arrests-torture-and-unlawful-force/

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I think this thread is a perfect example of how things are getting messy in the international discourse.

 

Putting it in spoiler because it's long:

Spoiler

 

The Israeli situation is incredibly complex and clearly at a point where compromising with Palestine is necessary but almost impossible. Both sides are at fault for that. I am pro-Palestine and I do identify Israel's tactics as colonialism and apartheid, but that country's been there for years and isn't going anywhere. Let's be realistic.

 

I won't talk much about the "land ancestry"/"promise land" bullshit or whatever: it's a concept I've always found stupid, because if you can claim ownership of a land you left thousands years ago... then I guess wars for territory would never end. Most countries have been conquered and then built on illegal occupation though. The only difference with Israel is that it's happening right now, right in front of the whole world, at a time where the UN exists (even though their useless ass don't do shit). And while the conflict is still happening, it started years ago without anyone caring enough to interfer. Which means there is now generations of Israeli living on that land, and for them, Israel is now as much home as Palestine is for Palestinians.

 

The ("""true""") ownership of the land aside, we unfortunately live in a world where Israel has to exist. Zionism doesn't come from nowhere. If people and countries hadn't been so cruel with Jews, Israel wouldn't exist nowadays. That's the harsh reality. Was building Israel as a safe haven the best solution? I don't think so. Especially on a land that was already occupied. The sure thing, though, is that the Jewish population is still being prejudiced, harassed and oppressed (and I'm not talking about Jewish people in position of power but mere commoners that are often not even Zionists). Some comments on this very thread are proof of that.

 

 

That said, some things should be simple enough not to get confused but for some reason, it's hard for some people:

 

You can criticize the despicable, evil actions of the Israeli government without being antisemistic.

You can hold Hamas responsible for their crimes and still support Palestine.

All Jews aren't Zionists.

All Palestinians aren't terrorists.

All Israeli don't support Netanyahu.

All Palestinians don't support Hamas.

 

I don't know if the two-state solution will ever see the light of the day and if Palestinians will finally live in peace, but I do know the true victims right now are the civilians being bombed, killed and mutilated for crimes they didn't commit. All the money and energy Western countries are putting in that conflict should be for humanitarian aid and nothing else.

 

Side note: I wouldn't ban people spouting IDF propaganda. There's a slim chance they've been brainwashed and interacting with other people might open their eyes. As slim as it is, I'd still take it.

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The problem is that people always blame the other side for everything (whether they are right or not). Everyone should first solve the problems on their own doorstep, the Palestinians should ask themselves if they are trivializing the terror of Hamas too much or distancing themselves from it too little, and the Israelis should actually realize that they are constantly increasing the terror and hatred against them with their military actions, violations of international law, and illegal settler activities.

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So…… we agree? Nobody supports Hamas, or violence against civilians. We all want to see people living equally and in peace,  yes?

 

So we should ALL be in support of an END to the siege. An END to the OCCUPATION. and the ESTABLISHMENT of REAL FRAMEWORK. 
 

I think I can speak for all of us when I say that it’s the lip service on behalf of our governments that cause our opinions to become so heated. We are all brothers and sisters on lanaboards. We just want to see lives saved. It’s times like these where we cannot afford to carry the weight of the world on our shoulders. By no means does this mean I think we should stop talking about this and the updates from the ground. Awareness is key. But I’m really going to try to not be so quick to lash out at people like @Noam, like another user said, their experience living there is probably much different from ours. We have access to an unbias perspective from the internet. Someone who grows up to serve in the IDF therefore enforcing the oppression (regardless if they want to believe that’s what they were doing or not) is going to think it is normal. Even acceptable. We should just strive to further awareness more than anything. Post the articles, videos, and interviews. QUOTE/CALL OUT the people spewing lies and ILLUSTRATE the double standards. 
 

 

but most importantly take care of yourselves. Take a day off from reading about things. Put down the connection. It’s so easy to fall down a rabbit hole of hopelessness in times like these. We can’t fight for anyone if we are not healthy ourselves.

 

happy holidays if you celebrate guys, god bless.

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3 hours ago, Veinsineon said:

Demographics aside, how can you blame children for having prejudice when most of them have probably lost family due to Israeli occupation in some way or another in their lifetime?? Oppression is all they’ve ever known- so of course they have a bigger opposition to their OPPRESSOR. I think a lot of these pro Israel people coming in here trying to delegitimize the suffering of the Palestinian state choose to ignore the very obvious fact of Apartheid. Which can be applied to almost every aspect of the “violence and extremism” as a determining factor. All this and the Israeli government still thinks Arabs should be THANKFUL for their actions? I would choose extremism too if that were my life, if wanting sovereignty and equal rights is radical.


100%! It's ridiculous at this point for anyone to be anything other than pro Free Palestine.

 

any point this poster makes is simply mute. Because this one sided war is really not about Hamas (or HamaSIS as he keeps calling it to try and change our perception), nor the 7th Oct attack.

 

It's literally about ethnic cleansing and taking over that poor land after decades of apartheid. 
 

anything else is mumbo jumbo really and pro-Israel PR in one form or another.

 

i'm soooo sick of it. It doesn't hold any water, when there are 13,000 people dead! And the city has been flattened to the ground. The jig is up.

1 hour ago, Veinsineon said:

So…… we agree? Nobody supports Hamas, or violence against civilians. We all want to see people living equally and in peace,  yes?

 

So we should ALL be in support of an END to the siege. An END to the OCCUPATION. and the ESTABLISHMENT of REAL FRAMEWORK. 
 

I think I can speak for all of us when I say that it’s the lip service on behalf of our governments that cause our opinions to become so heated. We are all brothers and sisters on lanaboards. We just want to see lives saved. It’s times like these where we cannot afford to carry the weight of the world on our shoulders. By no means does this mean I think we should stop talking about this and the updates from the ground. Awareness is key. But I’m really going to try to not be so quick to lash out at people like @Noam, like another user said, their experience living there is probably much different from ours. We have access to an unbias perspective from the internet. Someone who grows up to serve in the IDF therefore enforcing the oppression (regardless if they want to believe that’s what they were doing or not) is going to think it is normal. Even acceptable. We should just strive to further awareness more than anything. Post the articles, videos, and interviews. QUOTE/CALL OUT the people spewing lies and ILLUSTRATE the double standards. 
 

 

but most importantly take care of yourselves. Take a day off from reading about things. Put down the connection. It’s so easy to fall down a rabbit hole of hopelessness in times like these. We can’t fight for anyone if we are not healthy ourselves.

 

happy holidays if you celebrate guys, god bless.


 

wow. You seem like such a great, level-headed person. God bless and happy holidays :)

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1 hour ago, Veinsineon said:

but most importantly take care of yourselves. Take a day off from reading about things. Put down the connection. It’s so easy to fall down a rabbit hole of hopelessness in times like these. We can’t fight for anyone if we are not healthy ourselves.

 

happy holidays if you celebrate guys, god bless.

 

Absolutely, that's exactly why I no longer come to this thread as regularly as I used to. I'd add it's easy when you keep reading about violence and injustice to be so angry you start losing focus on what's important: what you can or can't do. 

 

As individuals, we cannot help Palestine exist as a state/entity. We don't have that power. It doesn't mean we cannot help at all though. 

If you have the money, you can donate to charities. If you don't, you can still raise awareness on the subject, with understanding and empathy. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Though I get it, it's hard sometimes not be aggressive when you talk to morons, but the more you lash out at them, the more they're susceptible to dig their heels in and you're just losing your time and your chance to change their mind. 

 

If they keep denying proof, testimonies or whatever you find to back your arguments, you're once again losing your time. It's just not the time for them to understand that side of the story. Perhaps they never will. It's okay. Just quit and use the ignore user function. Some people aren't worth your time and energy, so don't let them siphon it.

 

 

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It's good to see the discussion above on this page.

I'm of course going to keep updating what's happening with the hostage and prisoner releases when I can. I hope it goes smoothly, and hope even more that the bombing and attacks don't resume right away after the 4 days (even tho Netanyahuis promising it will), and that the West Bank can get peace during this too.


Information about that so far: i've pasted so much so putting it in a spoiler

 

"The temporary four-day truce between Israel and Hamas, negotiated under a hostage exchange deal, will begin on Friday at 7am local time, a spokesperson for Qatar's foreign ministry said on Thursday. 

The first batch of hostages of 13 women and children would be released later in the day at 4pm, spokesperson Majed Al-Ansari said. 

Mr Ansari told reporters in Doha the lists of all civilians that would be released from Gaza had been agreed, which was confirmed by Israel in a statement from the Prime Minister's office."

...

"There were no details about how many Palestinian women and children would be released from Israeli jails or when their release would take place, but Mr Ansari said that a list of names had been approved. "

....

"Mr Ansari said that an operations room in Doha will monitor the truce and the release of hostages. 

He said it would have direct and real-time lines of communication with Israel, the Hamas political office in Soha, and the International Committee of the Red Cross."

"According to Hamas, 200 aid trucks and four fuel trucks will enter the strip daily during the ceasefire. 

Qatar's Foreign Ministry said that on the fourth day of the temporary truce, it hopes to negotiate a subsequent agreement to release additional hostages from Gaza. "

More info about the Al-Shifa hospital situation in the link too, like hospital staff being arrested (ain't this a convenient time to take away the medical care) and the hospital director being taken and questioned.

And "The charity said the four-day pause would be "too short and fragile to make any meaningful difference given the scale of need and destruction""

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-24/israel-gaza-latest-updates-hostage-deal-ceasefire-friday/103144834

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27 minutes ago, Ultra Violet said:

Something really sad I just realised. I'm sure some of the Palestinian prisoners released will come back to realise they have no family left to meet them. And nearly all have no home to go back to.

Yes it appears the prisoners are being released into Northern Gaza and will probably be displaced and forced out of the region along with everyone else 

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12 hours ago, Mash Tragic said:

You can criticize the despicable, evil actions of the Israeli government without being antisemistic.

You can hold Hamas responsible for their crimes and still support Palestine.

All Jews aren't Zionists.

All Palestinians aren't terrorists.

All Israeli don't support Netanyahu.

All Palestinians don't support Hamas.

Huge yes. Might I also add:

The freedom of one group does not require the oppression of another group.

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On 11/23/2023 at 12:45 AM, fl0r1dakil0s said:


That would defeat the entire purpose of the creation of Israel which was to create a safe haven for Jews after the horrors of the Holocaust and a decade(s) of persecution in Europe.. The existence of a Jewish state ensures that Jews (a mere 0.2% of people) will have a place to go if something like the Holocaust were to ever happen again

 


No, but it is calling for the elimination of the only Jewish state

 

Their need for a "safe haven" does not permit them to stand on the throats of Palestinians.


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Today I will be calling my representatives in Congress and in my state to implore them to call for a permanent ceasefire! For any elected official who hasn’t yet called for a bilateral ceasefire at this point, this is their last chance - during this 4-day “humanitarian pause” - to show themselves to have any backbone or basic humanity. I’m sick of the non-response from the people I voted for. The silence is disturbing and I want them to make sure they know that.


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Peace by vengeance brings the end.

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Opinion: UN should intervene and create a mandate state like they did with Cambodia


Singin' in the old bars
Swingin' with the old stars
Livin' for the fame

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