Israel's genocide of Palestinians and war on the Middle East

[HellaGood 61]

On 10/24/2024 at 1:23 PM, baddisease said:

 

It comes off as ignoring that the genocide of Palestinians has been a decades long travesty. Have you ever heard perspectives from Palestinians? Because I have. 

Lol Ive been to both Israel and Palestine. I've also heard perspectives from people in Iran but I'm not pretending that qualifies me to understand the full  nuances of the situation in Iran. But you seem to think your passive act of listening to someones perspective makes you what? A UN ambassador? 

 

How is a documentary about what atrocities happened on October 7th somehow retroactively invalidate anything ? That's a bit of a jump your making there. Seems like your afraid to watch it. Shouldn't someone who is masquerading as being educated on the situation at least be exposing themselves to the full spectrum of information available? 

 

What's wrong with watching perspectives from people who suffered that day? Is their suffering invalidated? Doesn't count? 

[baddisease 17,654]

1 minute ago, HellaGood said:

Lol Ive been to both Israel and Palestine. I've also heard perspectives from people in Iran but I'm not pretending that qualifies me to understand the full  nuances of the situation in Iran. But you seem to think your passive act of listening to someones perspective makes you what? A UN ambassador? 

 

How is a documentary about what atrocities happened on October 7th somehow retroactively invalidate anything ? That's a bit of a jump your making there. Seems like your afraid to watch it. Shouldn't someone who is masquerading as being educated on the situation at least be exposing themselves to the full spectrum of information available? 

 

What's wrong with watching perspectives from people who suffered that day? Is their suffering invalidated? Doesn't count? 

 

I never said I knew the full nuances.

 

I just don't wanna watch something that doesn't seem to deal with the full timeline of the situation in Palestine.

 

Does it?

[HellaGood 61]

On 10/24/2024 at 10:31 AM, barttttender said:

 

Late to the convo and pardon me if I don't know the full story. But I would be very cautious about watching any  content sympathetic to Israel.

 

They spend millions to push their agenda and make people see things from their perspective and sympathise with them. They produce films, exhibitions and even immersive experiences to draw folks into their narrative and see things from their victims' POV.
 

Some of the families of hostages in Palestine have started to refuse partaking in the pageantry. Because for them, it's about genuine grief and not trotting themselves out as a tool of justification of the "war on Gaza," aka genocide. The propaganda machine is incessant and perpetually skewed towards "this is another Holocaust, we've been through this before, now we're going through it again". Grief has become their main tool for justifying a genocide. 
 

i'm not saying Israelis haven't been through a lot. But even the birds on trees know by now that October 7 is a drop in the ocean compared to what they've been doing to Palestinians, and now Lebanese.

 

They've even added October 7 to their Holocaust museums as a way or sustaining the victim narrative, which is the only real PR strategy / tool they have at this point, given that they've turned the entire planet against them in one year. 
 

More on that here:

 

 

Dude you sound like a conspiracy theorist. Blaming a multi million dollar media machine for tricking the world into being sympathetic towards Israel. 

 

That's literally hitting so many of the anti semitic dog whistles. 1) control the media 2) being deceptive and tricking the world. 

 

I think you need to go to one of those Holocaust museums your being so critical of. 

 

But hey let's play along with your "logic". So if you believe a media conspiracy can exist on such a widespread scale, then you can't deny  Iran has also been waging its own propaganda machine to villanize Israelis. When Iran has committed some of the most horrible human rights abuses against it's OWN people. Religious extremism is not progressive thinking. 

[HellaGood 61]

5 minutes ago, baddisease said:

 

I never said I knew the full nuances.

 

I just don't wanna watch something that doesn't seem to deal with the full timeline of the situation in Palestine.

 

Does it?

It's a documentary about the nova festival attack on October 7th. Using footage from body cams of Hamas and cell phone footage from all the young adults. It's not about the history of the conflict. It doesn't include the kibbutz or communities that were attacked that day either. 

 

Does every documentary about 9/11 include a full rundown of every political decision that lead up to it?  Or is it about the people who suffered that day? The human lives affected. 

 

If you understand so much about the conflict then you don't need that historical backdrop do you? Or are you worried having new information might challenge your POV? That's the Hallmark of a closed mind. 

[barttttender 4,845]

8 hours ago, HellaGood said:

Dude you sound like a conspiracy theorist. Blaming a multi million dollar media machine for tricking the world into being sympathetic towards Israel. 

 

That's literally hitting so many of the anti semitic dog whistles. 1) control the media 2) being deceptive and tricking the world. 

 

I think you need to go to one of those Holocaust museums your being so critical of. 

 

But hey let's play along with your "logic". So if you believe a media conspiracy can exist on such a widespread scale, then you can't deny  Iran has also been waging its own propaganda machine to villanize Israelis. When Iran has committed some of the most horrible human rights abuses against it's OWN people. Religious extremism is not progressive thinking. 

 

This made me laugh. The way The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and many others frame their news daily is all the proof I need for my "conspiracy theory." Is one a conspiracy theorist if they have a pair of eyes in their head and are literally spotting the evidence of something left and right? I'm not saying it's the Jews who are running that narrative, t's the US and their allies, with the Israelis and Jews. So, please spare me the anti-semitism card. 

 

In November 2023, over 750 journalists signed an open letter alleging bias in U.S. newsrooms against Palestinians in the reporting of the ongoing fighting in the Gaza strip. There are leaked memos proving that the New York Times instructed journalists covering Israel's war on the Gaza Strip to restrict the use of the terms “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing.”

 

There's tonnes of analysis and research proving the editorial whitewash, and social media has been having a global laughing fit at some of these arciles where essentially "Israel fights back" and "Palestinians are tripping over on pebble, falling down and dying - oopsy, nothing to do with Israel."

 

You've got literally puppets like  Julia Hartley-Brewer, who basically mentally abuses her pro-Palestinian guests on  live TV. 

 

I mean, there are tens of thousands of examples of biased journalism. All you need to do is open Instagram. Not only are they all obvious, in terms of being on Israel's and US payroll, but they've become a laughing stock.  "There goes X US media outlet, calling a 7 year old Palestinian girl "a young woman". Etc. Etc.

 

I'm not being an anti-semite. But if the US is happy to funnel billions of dollars for the ethnic cleansing, then yeah, another few billions to fuel propaganda doesn't seem all that unlikely, does it? Lastly, nothing I said here is anti-semitic. I'm anti-Israeli government and the massive money and political machine that supports its APPARENT and wildly proven genocide. Thanks. 

 

[barttttender 4,845]

11 hours ago, HellaGood said:

It's a documentary about the nova festival attack on October 7th. Using footage from body cams of Hamas and cell phone footage from all the young adults. It's not about the history of the conflict. It doesn't include the kibbutz or communities that were attacked that day either. 

 

Does every documentary about 9/11 include a full rundown of every political decision that lead up to it?  Or is it about the people who suffered that day? The human lives affected. 

 

If you understand so much about the conflict then you don't need that historical backdrop do you? Or are you worried having new information might challenge your POV? That's the Hallmark of a closed mind. 

 

Nobody's worried about getting challenged. It's just that there are 400 victims on the one side, and more than 40,000 dead on the other with another 1 million waiting to starve do death.

 

What are we supposed to get out of watching that documentary? Some understanding? A justification? An excuse? Puh-lease.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rorman Nockwell 56,493]

On 10/23/2024 at 1:32 AM, HellaGood said:

How many of the people here have watched "We Will Dance Again" on Paramount Plus? It's a doc about the Nova Festival massacre. 

 

I think anyone who wants to talk big about the conflict has a duty to watch it. Otherwise you're just ill informed. 

 

It's not available in my region, otherwise I would. However - why are you acting as if this particular documentary is the be-all end-all in terms of "being informed"?

The coverage surrounding October 7 went on for days, and there were many interviews and eyewitness accounts. So I just don't know why you're acting as if people have no idea because they haven't watched this one particular documentary.

Maybe you believe that people couldn't POSSIBLY side with Palestinians if they knew about October 7, but everyone DOES know about October 7. More and more, it seems like this is something Israel is using to try to justify terrible acts. Declaring that a UN aid agency is a terrorist organisation is the latest of said acts. When they passed this bill, there were people sitting there with pictures of the hostages, as if this somehow justifies starving thousands of people to death. WTF?

Yes, October 7 was terrible - I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees. But it doesn't mean that Israel should be able to just do whatever it wants in response.

To be clear, I don't condone violence against anyone, at any time, for any reason. But two wrongs don't make a right.

[barttttender 4,845]

49 minutes ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

It's not available in my region, otherwise I would. However - why are you acting as if this particular documentary is the be-all end-all in terms of "being informed"?

The coverage surrounding October 7 went on for days, and there were many interviews and eyewitness accounts. So I just don't know why you're acting as if people have no idea because they haven't watched this one particular documentary.

Maybe you believe that people couldn't POSSIBLY side with Palestinians if they knew about October 7, but everyone DOES know about October 7. More and more, it seems like this is something Israel is using to try to justify terrible acts. Declaring that a UN aid agency is a terrorist organisation is the latest of said acts. When they passed this bill, there were people sitting there with pictures of the hostages, as if this somehow justifies starving thousands of people to death. WTF?

Yes, October 7 was terrible - I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees. But it doesn't mean that Israel should be able to just do whatever it wants in response.

To be clear, I don't condone violence against anyone, at any time, for any reason. But two wrongs don't make a right.

 

Well put. 

 

It's same old, same old, isn't it?  "But on October 7.... ." As step into into the *SECOND CALENDAR YEAR* of genocide, destruction, and mass starvation. One day vs. 2 years. Ummmm, really hard to make out who's the good guy, and who's the bad guy.