Which songs do you think were intended for the new album?

[evilentity 13,343]

Okay. Well you literally started off that one post with "I find the label "outtake" (as people are using it) very problematic and ill-defined."

Yeah, one of the posts I linked to starts out that way because it was part of a completely different discussion where people asked what tracks were BTD outtakes while being really imprecise about what they even meant by an outtake. I linked to that post here because I ended it with my specific objection to the phrase "Paradise outtake" being casually applied to the Nowels tracks with certainty and how I felt that contributed to them leaking sooner.

 

Anyways, the same way you'd like to see my receipts I guess I'd like to see yours. If anything, you're talking way more "factual" then I am, so where's the basis for your clams?

What? How? That makes no sense. I'm not making any claims here. That's the point. I'm saying there's not enough evidence here for anyone to make a factual claim one way or another. Opinions are another matter.

 

From the time they were leaked ( and how), it's assumed that AFFA, Hollywood, JFK, Starry Eyed and Black Beauty were written for the new album. But we're only sure about BB since Lana had already mentioned the song before. But my guess is that Hollywood and JFK were maybe Paradise outtakes because lirically it doesn't even come close to what she described the new sound would be, Hollywood it's really 2011 Lana Del Rey ( that hollywood sound from Hollywood's dead and every man get his wish) and JFK had previously been mentioned at the time we didn't know the tracklist for Paradise.

I agree that "Black Beauty" is the only one we can say for sure, although I personally think AFFA is very likely as well. @@keanefar I don't necessarily assume the other tracks were written for the new album. I just don't assume that they weren't. I don't think there are clear enough similarities ~lyrically or sonically~ between the other tracks and Paradise, or clear enough such distinctions between the other tracks and BB & AFFA to make any conclusions about what they were intended for.

 

As for the early appearance of the title "JFK", that guy who scrobbled those fake Lana Del Ray & the Casinoz titles (and has a history of doing that shit) told me he thought I was bullshitting him about the existence of these tracks before they leaked because (he claims) he made up the title "JFK" as a fake title a long time ago because he thought it would sound like a plausible song title based on all her Kennedy references. So he claims he thought I was bullshitting when I repeated that title back to him. I don't trust that guy farther than I can throw him, and it would be one hell of a coincidence, but it would sorta make sense and could explain why "JFK" seems to be a new-ish song even though the title has been around for ages. (Of course, it could also just be a recent recording of a song she wrote a long time ago, but it always seemed odd to me that I'd never seen evidence of anyone having a demo of this or anything.)

[keanefar 1,007]

@@evilentity sigh. The outtake argument is pointless because clearly we have different views on it.

 

Honest question: (no sarcasm intended) Do you deny Y&B (or Will You Still Love me) as an outtake from Paradise? What about YCBTB from Born to Die? Kinda Outta Luck? Sometimes it's just obvious.....

 

Well, since I'm 'wrong', I guess we'll just say that several 2012 tracks, uploaded with Paradise tracks and definite Paradise outtakes, produced by someone who had a huge hand in Paradise, was merely a coincidence and had no significance at all.

[Creyk 11,697]

She did say that her demo's were written for "later use, or for different artists".

So, obviously she will not put them on an album, but it would be so cool if she gave Noir, Last Girl On Earth, and Damn You professional treatment.

Also, since she wants to rework Mermaid Motel and Kill Kill, one of those songs would likely be on a new album.

[PrettyBaby 2,219]

I think it's useful to be able to speak in terms of opinions as to which songs could be "outtakes" of which albums. (And I don't think anyone is denying that.) But we need to be careful about how we talk about these opinions, because as EE rightly points out, we don't actually "know" which ones are/were for certain projects except for BB. Misinformation can have unintended consequences.

[evilentity 13,343]

@@keanefar Sigh back at you. I'm not saying you're wrong. You could very well be right. I'm just saying there's no definitive proof so it shouldn't be stated as fact. Reasonable people can have different opinions, but nobody knows, so nothing should be stated as fact. I feel like a broken record on this.

To avoid a distracting argument about what should be considered an "outtake", no, I don't think the upload dates or subjective judgments about the sound or lyrics of these tracks are enough evidence to definitively conclude that she recorded these with the intention of possibly using them on Paradise or that she didn't intend to use them on her next album (which she has implied Rick has also been involved with). Nor can we conclude the reverse.

[Miguel3Zero 202]

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts". quote by D.P. Moynihan

[PinUpGaloreLana 1,399]

Will any live performances e.g. Heartshaped Box, Knockin' On Heaven's Door be included as a studio version do you think?

 

Cause that'd be great tbh

[DUKE 2,530]

1. Black Beauty Hollywood

2. Hollywood

3. Hollywood

4. Hollywood

5. Hollywood

6. Hollywood

7. Hollywood

8. Hollywood

9. Hollywood

10. Hollywood

 

#sorrynotsorry

What a repetitive album.   The question is... would the iTunes Store charge for each position of "Hollywood" separately? 

[lola 6,640]

Will any live performances e.g. Heartshaped Box, Knockin' On Heaven's Door be included as a studio version do you think?

 

Cause that'd be great tbh

i doubt she'd get courtney's approval for using heart-shaped box even though she went to one of her concerts. idk about knockin' on heaven's door

[Hellish 488]

I feel like people are really digging deep into "what sounds the same" to determine what songs were meant for an album.

I could make arguments for either side. I could argue that Angels Forever sounds like Dark Paradise, based on the composition.

I have to say that I agree with evilentity on the "receipts" debate. There is always an opportunity to create something new, that doesn't quite fit your project at the time...

[Trash Magic 28,302]

I could argue that Angels Forever sounds like Dark Paradise, based on the composition.

You could?

[whitman 1,286]

I feel like people are really digging deep into "what sounds the same" to determine what songs were meant for an album.

 

I could make arguments for either side. I could argue that Angels Forever sounds like Dark Paradise, based on the composition.

 

I have to say that I agree with evilentity on the "receipts" debate. There is always an opportunity to create something new, that doesn't quite fit your project at the time...

 

Lana said that usually she writes the whole album around one world or specific sound. Like In Born To Die she wanted a dark cinematic sound mixed up with heavy hip-hop beats, that's why songs like KOL and DICWB didn't make it for example. So it's right to assume based on her previous works that songs like Hollywood and JFK weren't intended for a new album, because lyrically and *sonically* they're far away from "spiritual and stripped down" ( how she defined her new songs). But again, the only thing we know for sure is BB

[NamiraWilhelm 5,043]

This is possibly the most made thread on these forums, how many have we had for just this subject exactly?

[Hellish 488]

You could?

Ok you're right, im wrong.

 

Lana said that usually she writes the whole album around one world or specific sound. Like In Born To Die she wanted a dark cinematic sound mixed up with heavy hip-hop beats, that's why songs like KOL and DICWB didn't make it for example. So it's right to assume based on her previous works that songs like Hollywood and JFK weren't intended for a new album, because lyrically and *sonically* they're far away from "spiritual and stripped down" ( how she defined her new songs). But again, the only thing we know for sure is BB

I can agree with that, but like I said, just because she isn't (might not) be using them right now, doesn't mean it won't fit a future project.

 

This is possibly the most made thread on these forums, how many have we had for just this subject exactly?

Sorry, new here.

[lflflflflflflflflflf 3,722]

Again, what is this based on?

 

Lana from Nylon: "I base the entire record on one song" = Black Beauty. Black Beauty is undoubtedly a 2013 track. Since the three are from December 2012, yes they could be new songs but I don't think they are for the new record. Seems like Rick uploaded them just to say "I produced these" and add them to his portfolio.

 

Starry Eyed seems to have looped verses and SE/Hollywood/JFK do not seem as polished as AFFA. I know Black Beauty still sounds like an electronic demo so any of those songs could be reworked for the new record.

[leaked_version 10,499]

Will any live performances e.g. Heartshaped Box, Knockin' On Heaven's Door be included as a studio version do you think?

 

Cause that'd be great tbh

Let's hope not. I hate everybody who covers Knocking on Heaven's Door. It's like bad karaoke time.

[Hellish 488]

Lana from Nylon: "I base the entire record on one song" = Black Beauty. Black Beauty is undoubtedly a 2013 track. Since the three are from December 2012, yes they could be new songs but I don't think they are for the new record. Seems like Rick uploaded them just to say "I produced these" and add them to his portfolio.

 

Starry Eyed seems to have looped verses and SE/Hollywood/JFK do not seem as polished as AFFA. I know Black Beauty still sounds like an electronic demo so any of those songs could be reworked for the new record.

I wonder what a stripped down version of Hollywood would sound like....

[LittleFool 1,912]

I feel like Chelsea Hotel No. 2 will make it onto the record. It sounds great with Black Beauty.

[DUKE 2,530]

I feel like people are really digging deep into "what sounds the same" to determine what songs were meant for an album.

I really don't mean to sound rude, but what exactly is there to determine at all? So little, almost nothing, is know about the songs and their respective production information. We can't determine anything. 

 

I could argue that Angels Forever sounds like Dark Paradise, based on the composition.

I don't know what you're referring to as a "composition" here but sticking to its musicological definition I couldn't but disagree with that statement. 

[leaked_version 10,499]

I feel like Chelsea Hotel No. 2 will make it onto the record. It sounds great with Black Beauty.

this one on the other would be a good idea. much better than Nirvana or Dylan.