Kesha Taking Dr. Luke to Court

[trayertrash 7,210]

It's disgusting that people think she's lying because she still worked with him. Does that mean that women in abusive relationships weren't really abused because they were still in a relationship with that person? Does it mean that children who are molested by their parents are lying about it because hey, they didn't tell anyone about it when it happened. As someone who has experienced sexual, emotional and physical abuse I find it disgusting that y'all think she's lying about any of this. It seems that anytime a woman speaks up about past abuse she's labeled a liar or a gold digger or has some sort of alternative motive. Maybe Kesha finally hit a breaking point in her life where should couldn't hold it back anymore. Maybe she has slowly tried to come forward about it over the years but didn't have the strength until now. She's openly tried to get out of contract with him for years, have you ever wondered why? I can't help but to feel anything but heartbreak for Kesha. I know what it's like to have people tell you you're lying about your abuse and your rape. I was raped and abused by an ex boyfriend. The rape was seen as a lie because we were dating and apparently screaming "no" "get off of me" "stop it" "please I'm begging you to stop" "I don't want to do it" "get off now" is consent if you're already in a relationship and the abuse was seen as a lie because I was afraid to talk about it while we were still together, it took me months to even speak about it. I lost friends over it because "if it had happened I would've called the cops". It's fucking hard to call the cops when you fear for your life. When someone who "loves you" is able to do these really awful things to you, you fear what they'll do if they hate you. Same with Kesha, when someone is supposed to build you this amazing career and be supportive of you and your work but realistically controls every aspect of your life it's hard to get away from them. Kesha could have been in fear of what Luke could do to her if she did tell. I'm proud of her for coming forward about this. I think abuse in the entertainment industry is something society completely ignores. Look at how many women in the business stepped forward decades after their abuse, is it really that hard to think it could happen to Kesha? I honestly think a lot of people disbelieve Kesha because of what the media portrays her as (overly sexual, alcoholic, drug addict, party girl) but really, all of those actions are common for victims of abuse. I think everyone needs to shut the fuck up with their conspiracies or whatever negative shit they have to say about her. The way people just casually call her a liar is exactly why so many victims of abuse are afraid to speak up about it. The worse thing you can do to a victim of abuse is to call them a liar and act like anything that did happen was their fault. 

[Viva 3,169]

It's disgusting that people think she's lying because she still worked with him. . It seems that anytime a woman speaks up about past abuse she's labeled a liar or a gold digger or has some sort of alternative motive.

 

I personally believe her as I think no one in their right mind would make such abominable accusations for the sake of getting out of a contract. I believe her YET I do think because is such a terrible thing he also deserves the right of defense and a fair trial. It's a horrible thing what happened to Kesha which makes Dr Luck someone deserving of a life in jail. That said, it has somewhat to be proven. The same way we have to many man who are psycos and far to many woman victims of such loonies we also have a few woman who would take advantage of what happens to actual victims, woman and children lie too that's why we need a justice system.

 

Rape is imo one if the most abominable crime in existence and Kesha's description on how he did it , so planned so calculated and for so long, makes it even worse.

 

I also believe her working with him is not the strange part or at least not the strangest, since victims can somewhat get attached to their predators or be scared. I guess something like that can take your dignity away, self love and respect and when you lose all that, you can be a puppet in the hands of your aggressor. The strange part for me is her family behavior, her brother and mother. Now that's really fucked up imo.

 

Not that things like this case don't happen in the entertainment business, but I struggle to believe her that it was the way she tells it. It is a known fact that Kesha desperately tries to get out of her contract and let's face it, now after a document appeared that she said under oath that she and Luke were never in a sexual relationship, it makes her version less believeable. After all, it was under oath.

 

Once again, there are just too many things that don't come together for me to believe her.

 

Not that it matters, but what I personally believe is that Luke offered her to break her while getting something back from her. Of course in a way that was not articulated this obvious. She agreed or let him take advantage, regretted it, but it was too late. If anything happend at all, it did not happen without her being unaware or forced. At least, that's what I believe.

 

Just like evilentitly said, this is ten years ago and they wrote songs together, went together to award shows, they were very close. If somebody did something so cruel and traumatic, this all would not  have turned out the way it did for years.

 

 

In the document there's only 2 questions that she swore under oath: If Luck gave her roofie and if she had a sexual relationship with him. There are several other drugs that can produce the same effect as roofie like GHB and it's derivatives. You need to do a blood exam in 48 hours to know precisely what was given to you. Since the question is so specific, I wouldn't throw Kesha under the fire just yet.

 

About the sexual relationship: rape is not a sexual relationship. Rape is rape, that said if she was raped she didn't lie, she never had a sexual relationship with him since was never consensual.

 

The problem with using the adversarial system in criminal law proceedings is that the victim is presumed lying until proven innocent

 

Well, this case in particular is extremely difficult for the justice system to take measures. Imagine throwing a man in jail over such accusations without proof? rape itself is hard to prove if the victim doesn't make a rape report (that rape exam ), you don't have a video or pictures with actual credible testimonies, in resume is fucked up for the victim to start with, imagine something that happened 10 years ago. I feel really sorry for Kesha because is fucked up and they will do everything to discredit her character and intentions.

 

I also strongly believe a psyco that gets away with such thing for so long wouldn't stop at Kesha. There's a bunch of other girls that need to take a stand for Kesha to have a chance on this. If all this is true, which I believe it is, those girls exist and they need to speak up.

[evilentity 13,343]

I just wanted to clarify my earlier post in case any subsequent posts were directed at it. First, I want to stress that I never said I think she's lying nor do I assume that or think it would be right to do so. At the same time, I also think taking allegations of sexual assault seriously should not entail presuming guilt of the accused.
 
That said, it may be indelicate or politically incorrect to say so, but there simply are aspects to her allegations that make them less credible (if even only marginally less so) than they might otherwise be. All other things being equal, an allegation made shortly after the fact is more credible than one made years later against an adversary. An allegation made by someone who cuts off contact with an alleged non-romantic, non-familial perpetrator is more credible than someone who continues to interact normally. (I personally have a hard time understanding this one because I've never wanted anything bad enough that I would tolerate a hypothetical abuser to get it, but everyone's different.) An allegation made without any possible ulterior motive is more credible than one with one. An accuser also seeking redress for a criminal act in a criminal court is more credible than one only seeking financial redress for a criminal act in civil court. Does any of that mean she's lying? Of course not. But it's simply a fact that the combination of these factors will affect any assessment of the credibility of her allegations by a neutral third party. As will other factors that weigh more in her favor.
 
Assuming she is telling the truth I really hope she pursues criminal charges. I have to say I find the idea of being just fine with your rapist going free so long as you can get out of your contract with him rather off-putting.
 
 

The problem with using the adversarial system in criminal law proceedings is that the victim is presumed lying until proven innocent

I'm actually not quite sure what you mean by this. I'm no lawyer, but my understanding of our system in the US is that the accused are presumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Yes, it places the burden of proof on the accuser, but renders no judgment on the accuser's honesty-- unless the accuser is later tried for defamation (as may happen here) where the accuser (now the accused) is presumed innocent unless proven otherwise. Ke$ha may face a high burden proving he raped her, but Dr. Luke would also face a high burden proving he didn't.
 
There are obvious drawbacks to this system, but I can't think of an alternative where the drawbacks aren't worse.

[PrettyBaby 2,219]

I should have qualified that having the adversarial system in criminal proceedings ***opens the door*** to treating victims this way, and rape cases are exactly the type where the problem occurs.

 

There's plenty of room between the adversarial system and presuming guilt

 

I'll add more details soon.

[leaked_version 10,499]

Trial in April 2016. Goodbye to ha career...

[TRENCH 15,450]

Trial in April 2016. Goodbye to ha career...

THAT far? daamn

[PrettyBaby 2,219]

I should have qualified that having the adversarial system in criminal proceedings ***opens the door*** to treating victims this way, and rape cases are exactly the type where the problem occurs.

 

There's plenty of room between the adversarial system and presuming guilt

 

I'll add more details soon.

 

I don't pretend to be any sort of expert on criminal law in general, or rape law in particular, but I promised to get back with further thoughts.

 

What I had in mind was an inquisitorial system in serious criminal cases like rape or murder, either replacing the adversarial system, or incorporating elements of the inquisitorial system into the existing system (which might be easier). In an Iq. system, the judge/magistrate acts as factfinder. In such a system, the goal is to uncover the truth through investigation and consideration of all evidence, as opposed to the Adv. system's emphasis on competition to make the best case (which arguably puts too much of a focus on *winning*). An Iq. system allows more evidence to be considered, because prejudicial effect is not (as much of?) a concern. Apparently conviction rates under both systems are similar -- they are different approaches with similar results -- but the Iq. approach itself seems more appropriate in cases of rape.

 

Presumption of innocence and burden of proof on the prosecution *could* change under Iq. systems, but do not always. That is not at all what I had in mind; I have studied American criminal procedure in the past, and it's hard for me to imagine putting the burden of proof on the accused as a good thing.

 

There are other alternatives to the pure adversarial system: rape shield laws which limit evidence concerning the victim, restorative justice, and specialized courts/police to deal with rape cases. Those are not what I had in mind, but I see potentially beneficial elements in those ideas as well.

http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy/supporting-victims/sexual-violence/improvements

 

Bottom line: I believe rape prosecution is in need of serious reform in the U.S. I am interested to hear perspectives from other people about the state of rape law/prosecution in their own countries.

 

(Of course, none of this applies directly to a civil proceeding, as in Kesha's case. I will only point out that I suspect she has a much better chance of actually accomplishing something by pursuing a civil remedy as opposed to a criminal sentence. *If* she is successful in her suit, I do hope she pursues a criminal charge as well... but probably the statute of limitations has kicked in by now.)

 

One more note: I don't know how to explain this adequately to people who haven't experienced it, but I'm not inclined to hold Kesha's apparent passivity up until now against her. I really think an individual's upbringing has *a lot* to do with how equipped they are to protect themselves/problem-solve/confront people who take advantage of them in life. It is entirely possible for a person to live with abuse, without having the thought process be so much "I want to keep/achieve such-and-such so I'll put up with it," so much as "this sucks, but it's part of normal life." To some extent, one needs to experience healthy relationships with appropriate boundaries, before one can identify which relationships need to be ended/renegotiated.

[PARADIXO 32,940]

This is so depressing. But well, she doesn't care about money/fame/#1s anymore... she wants to be free and happy. Literally can't wait for her new music, I don't care if it's released in 2016 or 2020.

[Viva 3,169]

Trial in April 2016. Goodbye to ha career...

 

That long? How is even possible? Isn't rape considered a heinous crime in US? Is it because it's a civil and not criminal lawsuit? Wtf! That's terrible for her in every sense, career, state of mind . Imagine waiting that much to restart your life. 

[leaked_version 10,499]

That long? How is even possible? Isn't rape considered a heinous crime in US? Is it because it's a civil and not criminal lawsuit? Wtf! That's terrible for her in every sense, career, state of mind . Imagine waiting that much to restart your life. 

That seems to actually be rather normal in the US

[TRENCH 15,450]

That long? How is even possible? Isn't rape considered a heinous crime in US? Is it because it's a civil and not criminal lawsuit? Wtf! That's terrible for her in every sense, career, state of mind . Imagine waiting that much to restart your life. 

Anything that has to do with the court systems takes its own time

[Viva 3,169]

That seems to actually be rather normal in the US

 

Can she record and release anything without Dr Liuke's authorization? A feature or a duet in someone else's album?

[TRENCH 15,450]

Can she record and release anything without Dr Liuke's authorization? A feature or a duet in someone else's album?

Probably not, but I would LOVE to see her contract.. I've only seen Jimi Hendrix's 

Edited October 29, 2014 by W7edwin

[krystal 33]

Can she record and release anything without Dr Liuke's authorization? A feature or a duet in someone else's album?

She can record stuff, but no music of hers can be sold without his permission until her contract with him is broken.

[leaked_version 10,499]

K, sorry y'all but today was the final nail to the coffin for me when Keshir's lawyer tweeted back to somebody (with a Lana avi btw) that Gaga was also one of Luke's victims.

 

This is just a stunt to get attention. Not believing anything of this. Even IF true, this is such an unprofessional move. So fishy

 

a

[Peachycream 3,648]

K, sorry y'all but today was the final nail to the coffin for me when Keshir's lawyer tweeted back to somebody (with a Lana avi btw) that Gaga was also one of Luke's victims.

 

This is just a stunt to get attention. Not believing anything of this. Even IF true, this is such an unprofessional move. So fishy

 

a

It was me. 

 

Worst mistake was responding to his tweets but i was genuinely curious as to what he was going to say. 

[TRENCH 15,450]

and now:

 

Dr. Luke Sues Mark Geragos Over Lady Gaga Rape Allegations

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/1679602/dr-luke-sues-mark-geragos-over-lady-gaga-rape-allegations/

[TRENCH 15,450]

[Hundred Dollar Bill 21,804]

[Benvolio 329]

What a mess.

Can't he just fucking break his contract with her and let her go?