Ethel Cain

[Disx 94]

5 minutes ago, Coloringbooks said:

Even if you don't like Melanie Martinez, saying that storybook is "worse" than explicitly pornographic wank-intended content (clearly meant to resemble a child) is a reach and a half.

you can't tell him he's reaching (not that i fully disagree) while claiming she was drawing nsfw art of a child when that's your nasty interpretation lol. it's clearly art of an original character, not a child in any form with a slightly edgy caption that was posted -eight- years ago

 

this is like the 3rd mess brought up in a month and at this point it's just confusing. none of you like her or wanna hear an explanation that stops you from finding her problematic so why continue to discuss her instead of not coming to her thread? 

[Demonmic03 12,395]

2 minutes ago, Disx said:

this is like the 3rd mess brought up in a month and at this point it's just confusing. none of you like her or wanna hear an explanation that stops you from finding her problematic so why continue to discuss her instead of not coming to her thread? 

This!. If you don't like her then why come to the thread

[Coloringbooks 14,272]

44 minutes ago, Disx said:

you can't tell him he's reaching (not that i fully disagree) while claiming she was drawing nsfw art of a child when that's your nasty interpretation lol. it's clearly art of an original character, not a child in any form with a slightly edgy caption that was posted -eight- years ago

Mmm, but aside from just resembling a child, the caption also implies it's an altar boy being sexually tortured by priests.

The 'chibi' excuse being used to defend it is suspicious when you recognise chibi characters are specifically designed to resemble children. I'm not sure why anyone would go out of their way to draw chibi torture porn.

 

There's also a tweet she made about a year later where she defends pedophilic age gaps, so I understand why @Veinsineon would be disturbed by that drawing. 

44 minutes ago, Disx said:

this is like the 3rd mess brought up in a month and at this point it's just confusing. none of you like her or wanna hear an explanation that stops you from finding her problematic so why continue to discuss her instead of not coming to her thread? 

I wouldn't have joined this conversation, but I think this particular type of deflection - bringing up completely unrelated artists whom no one on here was defending in the first place - is strange and hypocritical. And also saying the Melanie storybook is worse than torture CP, like wtf. I guess she's just not famous or disliked enough yet though because in reality, if those artists drew or said what Ethel has, they would be facing 10x the backlash. 

[domandapiano 12,179]

52 minutes ago, Disx said:

you can't tell him he's reaching (not that i fully disagree) while claiming she was drawing nsfw art of a child when that's your nasty interpretation lol. it's clearly art of an original character, not a child in any form with a slightly edgy caption that was posted -eight- years ago

 

this is like the 3rd mess brought up in a month and at this point it's just confusing. none of you like her or wanna hear an explanation that stops you from finding her problematic so why continue to discuss her instead of not coming to her thread? 

A-FUCKING-MEN

 

(and call me by your name remains one of the most gorgeous films of all time) 

[Future Jazz 9,477]

this is not about wanting to find her problematic lol how are you guys not seeing why people are disturbed by this? you can't chalk it up to 'you hate her anyway' or 'others did worse' in this case

[Dark Angel 205,931]

her drawing is definitely strange, and uncomfortable to look at, but i've heard people online claim it's intended to be someone of age, despite being drawn in a chibi style, so i don't know if it's automatically fair to brand it as CP or CP-adjacent, art is often very subjective and interpretable, and can often be misunderstood as well, i personally think it looks like a young man drawn in a chibi-like style, and also, it's heavily-stylized, and honestly not very anatomically-correct, so in that case, i feel like trying to dissect and analyze whether or not it's intended to be somebody of age is just a losing game, only hayden herself could know that for sure

 

i do think the drawing is very jarring, and absolutely inappropriate, at least, to share online, if it is depicting somebody underage, especially since the caption is pretty cheeky about it, and not taking it and what it depicts very seriously, i'm not one to dictate art, but i do believe it's highly inappropriate for someone to make depictions of children sexually/violently (assuming it is intended to be a child), we can't know for sure what exactly inspired her to draw something like that, but it should be very obvious by now that her work touches on many heavy subjects, of which have been relevant to her life, such as religion, sexuality, trauma, ETC. so perhaps there's more reasoning behind such a drawing, regardless, it likely wasn't appropriate for her to share publicly

 

at the end of the day... there's nothing we can do to change what artists have done in the past, we just have to decide whether or not we can look past certain things, and choose to continue to engage with someone's work, or not, not too long ago people here were criticizing her for being pro-life 12 years ago when she was like, 14 (which was RIDICULOUS lol people were just grasping at straws trying to find reasons to hate on her) or for some stupid edgy legalize incest shirt, and it's especially silly to me seeing people here fight about it while simultaneously being fans of artists who have done similarly questionable or worse things, including LDR! some would argue it was really weird for her to use footage from a kiddie pageant documentary in her homemade music videos, something i actually personally feel a bit uncomfortable with, but it's not enough for me to stop supporting her, are we brigading the melanie martinez thread talking about her sexual assault allegations? no, or, at least, i haven't, i can't recall that ever happening in recent times

 

it just seems like fighting over artists and what problematic things they have done just doesn't go anywhere, especially doing it in the artist's designated thread which will be populated by fans, we're all aware of hayden's actions, artistic choices, ETC. we aren't oblivious to it, we still choose to listen to her music anyway, just like with any other fans of artist who have done strange/questionable/bad things

[Demonmic03 12,395]

44 minutes ago, Dark Angel said:

her drawing is definitely strange, and uncomfortable to look at, but i've heard people online claim it's intended to be someone of age, despite being drawn in a chibi style, so i don't know if it's automatically fair to brand it as CP or CP-adjacent, art is often very subjective and interpretable, and can often be misunderstood as well, i personally think it looks like a young man drawn in a chibi-like style, and also, it's heavily-stylized, and honestly not very anatomically-correct, so in that case, i feel like trying to dissect and analyze whether or not it's intended to be somebody of age is just a losing game, only hayden herself could know that for sure

 

i do think the drawing is very jarring, and absolutely inappropriate, at least, to share online, if it is depicting somebody underage, especially since the caption is pretty cheeky about it, and not taking it and what it depicts very seriously, i'm not one to dictate art, but i do believe it's highly inappropriate for someone to make depictions of children sexually/violently (assuming it is intended to be a child), we can't know for sure what exactly inspired her to draw something like that, but it should be very obvious by now that her work touches on many heavy subjects, of which have been relevant to her life, such as religion, sexuality, trauma, ETC. so perhaps there's more reasoning behind such a drawing, regardless, it likely wasn't appropriate for her to share publicly

 

at the end of the day... there's nothing we can do to change what artists have done in the past, we just have to decide whether or not we can look past certain things, and choose to continue to engage with someone's work, or not, not too long ago people here were criticizing her for being pro-abortion 12 years ago when she was like, 14 (which was RIDICULOUS lol people were just grasping at straws trying to find reasons to hate on her) or for some stupid edgy legalize incest shirt, and it's especially silly to me seeing people here fight about it while simultaneously being fans of artists who have done similarly questionable or worse things, including LDR! some would argue it was really weird for her to use footage from a kiddie pageant documentary in her homemade music videos, something i actually personally feel a bit uncomfortable with, but it's not enough for me to stop supporting her, are we brigading the melanie martinez thread talking about her sexual assault allegations? no, or, at least, i haven't, i can't recall that ever happening in recent times

 

it just seems like fighting over artists and what problematic things they have done just doesn't go anywhere, especially doing it in the artist's designated thread which will be populated by fans, we're all aware of hayden's actions, artistic choices, ETC. we aren't oblivious to it, we still choose to listen to her music anyway, just like with any other fans of artist who have done strange/questionable/bad things

This.

And looking back on it I was too dismissive about the drawing. it is inappropriate and shouldn't have been shared online. But honestly I'm tired of arguing about artists in their threads... save it for dms status updates or other threads where it's more welcome... I can already feel that this thread is gonna become the new Taylor thread at this point

However @Veinsineon I apologize. i shouldn't have brought up Melanie into this is I saw your message in the melanie thread and assumed the worst and for that I'm sorry.

[X8deletedUserX 4,822]

Ethel Cain? More like Ethel LAME…..

 

🚪🚶

 

Spoiler

Her music tho… I always liked Preachers Daughter but never really came back to it much. But the for the NEW album, lowkey i should really like it because i like weird brain damage music but ten minutes of BZZZZZZZZZ just isn’t really my thing. Ambient music and “drone” in general is boring in my opinion and you need to be in the right mood for it. If i wanted to listen to that i would leave the fridge open and stand next to it. And i don’t think any Ethel Cain fans are going to be swayed over into this new genre they haven’t heard before because it was executed so great here. Not one Ethel Cain fan on planet earth will start listening to Sunn O))) or The Body because this album exists. A drone or noise project could release this very album and no one would be calling it album of the year or 10/10. It’s only because Ethel Cain released this album that people are calling it so deep and new sounding. But i still think the concept is very cool and i understand why people really like it. Punish and Amber Waves are my favorite songs on it. And idgaf about her dumb ass controversies you mfs are soft

 

[That Venice Bitch 29,864]

i just wish this thread was normal 

[Disx 94]

1 hour ago, Coloringbooks said:

There's also a tweet she made about a year later where she defends pedophilic age gaps

I wouldn't have joined this conversation, but I think this particular type of deflection - bringing up completely unrelated artists whom no one on here was defending in the first place - is strange and hypocritical. And also saying the Melanie storybook is worse than torture CP, like wtf. I guess she's just not famous or disliked enough yet though because in reality, if those artists drew or said what Ethel has, they would be facing 10x the backlash. 

again, this tweet was brought up like a month ago and it's so obviously meant to be funny. it also doesn't defend pedophilia in any way(? unless you think the film does, and if that's the case you're not watching it properly lol

 

I didn't bring up other artists as I also think it makes no sense, my point was what @Dark Angel expanded on: it makes no sense to constantly go over every little thing she's done to determine whether or not she's a good person. if anything you find makes you uncomfortable you can simply ignore it or discuss it in a way that doesn't create more discourse

[dxughterofcxin 29]

1 hour ago, Dark Angel said:

her drawing is definitely strange, and uncomfortable to look at, but i've heard people online claim it's intended to be someone of age, despite being drawn in a chibi style, so i don't know if it's automatically fair to brand it as CP or CP-adjacent, art is often very subjective and interpretable, and can often be misunderstood as well, i personally think it looks like a young man drawn in a chibi-like style, and also, it's heavily-stylized, and honestly not very anatomically-correct, so in that case, i feel like trying to dissect and analyze whether or not it's intended to be somebody of age is just a losing game, only hayden herself could know that for sure

 

i do think the drawing is very jarring, and absolutely inappropriate, at least, to share online, if it is depicting somebody underage, especially since the caption is pretty cheeky about it, and not taking it and what it depicts very seriously, i'm not one to dictate art, but i do believe it's highly inappropriate for someone to make depictions of children sexually/violently (assuming it is intended to be a child), we can't know for sure what exactly inspired her to draw something like that, but it should be very obvious by now that her work touches on many heavy subjects, of which have been relevant to her life, such as religion, sexuality, trauma, ETC. so perhaps there's more reasoning behind such a drawing, regardless, it likely wasn't appropriate for her to share publicly

 

at the end of the day... there's nothing we can do to change what artists have done in the past, we just have to decide whether or not we can look past certain things, and choose to continue to engage with someone's work, or not, not too long ago people here were criticizing her for being pro-abortion 12 years ago when she was like, 14 (which was RIDICULOUS lol people were just grasping at straws trying to find reasons to hate on her) or for some stupid edgy legalize incest shirt, and it's especially silly to me seeing people here fight about it while simultaneously being fans of artists who have done similarly questionable or worse things, including LDR! some would argue it was really weird for her to use footage from a kiddie pageant documentary in her homemade music videos, something i actually personally feel a bit uncomfortable with, but it's not enough for me to stop supporting her, are we brigading the melanie martinez thread talking about her sexual assault allegations? no, or, at least, i haven't, i can't recall that ever happening in recent times

 

it just seems like fighting over artists and what problematic things they have done just doesn't go anywhere, especially doing it in the artist's designated thread which will be populated by fans, we're all aware of hayden's actions, artistic choices, ETC. we aren't oblivious to it, we still choose to listen to her music anyway, just like with any other fans of artist who have done strange/questionable/bad things

this. I think the drawing isn't appropriate at all, and it's important to hold artists accountable to their pasts, but we also have to use context clues and critical thinking when mentioning things in the past. when Hayden posted the art, Hayden didn't have the platform she has today, and as Dark Angel said, it's a worthless battle to fight over the fictional age of the subject. people grow, and denounce a lot of things they do in the past, and whether Hayden chooses to is up to her. if the drawing is worth not supporting her as an artist to you as an individual, then that's okay! I just think some critical thinking is needed when approaching these subjects, and I see it up to every individual to determine whether they can look past their actions to appreciate the art an individual makes. but anyways, that's my take, and I think Dark Angel put this into a constructive perspective.

[traleon 5]

5 hours ago, Coloringbooks said:

Or maybe let's compare the actual drawings being discussed?  How is this fetishisation but not this:

"The priests like to keep him chained up"? The implication is that this is an altar boy. On top of that, the caption says the (underaged looking) victim is enjoying it. 

 

Nobody was talking about Melanie Martinez before y'all brought her up to deflect, but I think bias is playing into it if you say Melanie's is "worse". Ethel's drawing was posted to a private instagram account dedicated to pornographic NSFW artwork. The confirmation of it being sexually-motivated fetish art makes it inherently worse than Melanie's, a storybook where nothing sexual happens. And for clarity - Melanie didn't draw hers', but at the time of its release, she was the exact same age as Ethel was when posting this photo. Both 19-20 years old.

 

Even if it's a 'chibi' like the 2024 caption edit claims... chibi porn is still weird, idk. A chibi is a miniature, child-like version of a character- sometimes an actual child. The body, the face, the overall look all reinforce that. Children are often nicknamed "chibi" in Japan. Chibi proportions:

 

I'm not saying anyone needs to be cancelled, but the hypocrisy is showing. I feel like if any other artist posted that - such as Melanie, or even Lana who gets dragged for pedophilia-based songs such as Lolita and Put Me In A Movie - they'd be torn apart. I haven't seen any backlash towards Ethel outside of this thread and its mostly fans defending her.

were you not on the internet in the 2010's when chibi/kawaii character torture was a big thing in emo/goth art spaces? ethel did not invent the idea of putting cutified cartoons in gore/bdsm situations for her own perverted satisfaction lmao. like, you can think its weird but its not pedophilic, she was just copying an edgy trend which itself was also never pedophilic.

 

and again, it is a *drawing* of a *19 year old* who does not even look like a child (children do not have large genitalia, defined musculature, broad shoulders, piercings, etc...). the drawing simply has a big head bc its a drawn caricature and I guess you believe big cartoon heads has to mean child. sorry ig?

 

also melanie raped someone lolol, shockingly, a drawing is not worse than rape.

[Terrence Loves Me 73,070]

2 hours ago, X8deletedUserX said:

Ethel Cain? More like Ethel LAME…..

 

[fl0r1dakil0s 21,994]

7 hours ago, Coloringbooks said:

Even if you don't like Melanie Martinez, saying that storybook is "worse" than explicitly pornographic wank-intended content (clearly meant to resemble a child) is a reach and a half

 

"clearly meant to resemble a child" is a reach and a half.. like literally who cares what she was drawing

[Coloringbooks 14,272]

5 hours ago, Disx said:

again, this tweet was brought up like a month ago and it's so obviously meant to be funny. it also doesn't defend pedophilia in any way(? unless you think the film does, and if that's the case you're not watching it properly lol

A 31-year-old fucking a 17-year-old is gross, and it's statutory rape. To imply that age gap is acceptable, and also that anyone who finds discomfort with it is "just mad they're too ugly" to be taken advantage of sounds like an explicit defence of pedophilic age gaps to me.

 

3 hours ago, traleon said:

were you not on the internet in the 2010's when chibi/kawaii character torture was a big thing in emo/goth art spaces? ethel did not invent the idea of putting cutified cartoons in gore/bdsm situations for her own perverted satisfaction lmao. like, you can think its weird but its not pedophilic, she was just copying an edgy trend which itself was also never pedophilic

and again, it is a *drawing* of a *19 year old* who does not even look like a child (children do not have large genitalia, defined musculature, broad shoulders, piercings, etc...). the drawing simply has a big head bc its a drawn caricature and I guess you believe big cartoon heads has to mean child. sorry ig?

also melanie raped someone lolol, shockingly, a drawing is not worse than rape.

I was on the internet in the 2010s and it was never a trend for adults to draw altar boys being raped by priests.. at least not in my circle. Most people would find that disturbing. Whether you think the porn account drawing is acceptable or not, it hardly resembles actual chibi characteristics, it's basically shotacon. If you don't care about what she was drawing then that's your prerogative, but majority who look at it are going to see it as torture porn of a visibly underaged boy.

 

I can't comment on its penis because I've only seen the version I posted with it censored (lmao), but regarding your other points, the average age for shoulders to broaden is 12-13. Mine started when I was 11. Defined musculatures? Since when do children not have ear piercings? My mother got hers' pierced when she was a baby. That's pretty close to how my body looked when I was underaged so these traits you're mentioning don't add up. 

 

I wasn't talking about Melanie's allegation, only the storybook drawings after someone brought those up. Ethel's drawing, on the other hand, is actual pornographic fetish content from her private porn account. My main point was that bringing up other artists to deflect from Ethel's actions is pointless. 

 

I apologise for jumping into this thread since its a fan space and most Ethel fans are going to justify her behaviour anyway, but I just felt the urge to speak and point out what I view as hypocrisy. I agree with the stance here;

6 hours ago, Dark Angel said:

her drawing is definitely strange, and uncomfortable to look at, 

 

at the end of the day... there's nothing we can do to change what artists have done in the past, we just have to decide whether or not we can look past certain things, and choose to continue to engage with someone's work, or not,

 

it just seems like fighting over artists and what problematic things they have done just doesn't go anywhere, especially doing it in the artist's designated thread which will be populated by fans, we're all aware of hayden's actions, artistic choices, ETC. we aren't oblivious to it, we still choose to listen to her music anyway, just like with any other fans of artist who have done strange/questionable/bad things

 

[fl0r1dakil0s 21,994]

the fact this is even "discourse" is bizarre like who cares what she was doing in her bedroom and to 20 followers on an instagram account when she was young ?? like it's so dumb and it's also nothing crazy lmfao like any pedo allegations are fully being projected onto her bc it isn't giving that at all  

[Lindsay Lohan 11,804]

This thread is so funny to assume people were actively looking for "chibi/kawaii character torture" maybe you're just a freak idk

[Lanaparadiserey 24,607]

11 minutes ago, Lindsay Lohan said:

This thread is so funny to assume people were actively looking for "chibi/kawaii character torture" maybe you're just a freak idk

LMAO😭

[dxughterofcxin 29]

7 hours ago, Coloringbooks said:

I'm not sure what you think is worse than the torture drawing then, but it's @dxughterofcxin who was talking about the storybook thing to distract from Ethel's drawing. I quoted their post alongside yours.

just now seeing this, but I only brought up the storybook as an example of something similar (not better or worse) that Melanie has done, and how people are still supporting Melanie after that. I wasn't trying to deflect from anything, and further in my post, I acknowledge that hayden's drawing is absolutely weird, and that we have to be willing to apply one's morals in any situation, not just certain ones. I apologize if my original posts were confusing, and I'm sure I could have worded things better, but I think if you're going to denounce one piece of media, you have to denounce other pieces of media that have similar themes or concepts (such as many parts of the crybaby project). I think both pieces are weird, and I am more than willing to say that Hayden has said and done some weird shit in the past, but I am also willing to apply those same opinions on other projects. My example of the storybook was not to defend or distract from Hayden, it was to show that there is a inferred bias between the two artist's fanbases. the drawing is absolutely inappropriate, and frankly, makes me uncomfortable, (but that truly is my opinion.) not trying to drag melanie's whole past into this, because honestly, I couldn't give two fucks about her. sorry if my previous comments were phrased weirdly, I'm not always confident in expressing my opinions, especially through text

[RIP ivory almond 17,401]

idgaf what Ethel or Melanie drew/released when they were 19, I listen to both of them because I appreciate the art they’re releasing today

 

even with the rape allegations against Melanie, I still listen to her bc her music is good and lowkey that’s all I care abt when it comes to singers im not invested in like Lana