Russia’s invasion into Ukraine

[Semafori 1,516]

47 minutes ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

Yeah

So then they will "democratically" choose to be a part of Russia and if Ukraine attempts to reclaim it he will consider it a declaration of war against Russia

Scary seeing what he does when he is backed into a corner huh

the lengths he will go to "protect russian people" is insane, and he must be exterminated as soon as possible. It's fine when people like Obama use JSOC in the middle east  , but all of a sudden its not right now when putin is in the equation.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,741]

44 minutes ago, Semafori said:

the lengths he will go to "protect russian people" is insane, and he must be exterminated as soon as possible. It's fine when people like Obama use JSOC in the middle east  , but all of a sudden its not right now when putin is in the equation.

Aside from the obvious killing and destruction that comes with war in Ukraine (which is, of course, terrible), it's just a shit situation for many other reasons

I honestly thought Putin was smarter than this. After the hosting the Olympics and the World Cup, Russia looked poised to become more "open" to foreign tourism, business and trade - which would've benefited everyone. He even changed the visa laws to make it easier for foreigners to visit - and now he's backflipped and it'll take nothing short of 1. his death, followed by 2. a political turnaround (unlikely) to get back on that path.

I mean he's always been authoritarian and fucky but for awhile, I felt like Russia was slowly moving in the right direction and now it will take many, many years to get back to that place

He needs to go and all the oligarchs and hangers-on need to be dealt with before there can be any real change.

[Trrrrrr 1,157]

4 minutes ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

Aside from the obvious killing and destruction that comes with war in Ukraine (which is, of course, terrible), it's just a shit situation for many other reasons

I honestly thought Putin was smarter than this. After the hosting the Olympics and the World Cup, Russia looked poised to become more "open" to foreign tourism, business and trade - which would've benefited everyone. He even changed the visa laws to make it easier for foreigners to visit - and now he's backflipped and it'll take nothing short of 1. his death, followed by 2. a political turnaround (unlikely) to get back on that path.

I mean he's always been authoritarian and fucky but for awhile, I felt like Russia was slowly moving in the right direction and now it will take many, many years to get back to that place

He needs to go and all the oligarchs and hangers-on need to be dealt with before there can be any real change.

if NATO is dissolved, the world must be more open and cosier

[baddisease 17,938]

3 hours ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

Yeah

So then they will "democratically" choose to be a part of Russia and if Ukraine attempts to reclaim it he will consider it a declaration of war against Russia

Scary seeing what he does when he is backed into a corner huh

 

But Donetsk and Luhansk genuinely voted to be independent. Putin sucks but they deserve to make decisions on their own.

 

1 hour ago, Trrrrrr said:

if NATO is dissolved, the world must be more open and cosier

 

I wanna like this 1000 times.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,741]

3 hours ago, baddisease said:

 

But Donetsk and Luhansk genuinely voted to be independent. Putin sucks but they deserve to make decisions on their own.

 

If you think any Russian-backed vote (and it was) is "independent" then idk what to tell you

And NATO isn't the aggressor here.

[sunday afternoon 1,037]

This war is complex. Russia and Ukraine are not European and have never functioned as such, I think that Europe and the rest of the world should not have interfered in all this, remained neutral and helped families in difficulty only. Not smart of Europe to send billions of euros to Zelensky, then guns to anger Putin, look for him and then complain. We are paying for the consequences of this war (price hikes, little electricity this winter, damage to infrastructure, schools closed because of electricity, etc.) but they don't care.

 

I mean, Europe is at rock bottom. These shitty leaders have never wanted peace and are endangering their people. They prefer to set fire and blood to their countries rather than finding a less selfish solution and asking the opinion of the people because yes, we don't want this war. 

 

Putin has regressed in his politics but Zelensky is a fraud, a beggar 2.0 who asks for money and cries when he has none. If he was a real leader he would have stopped this war and given his billions to families so that they can rebuild themselves abroad, no, he continues to drag us into his bullshit until the day Putin stops laughing and presses the button that will trigger a real world war, what a loser.

[bluechemtrails 26,781]

1 hour ago, Enchanted Mansion said:

This war is complex. Russia and Ukraine are not European and have never functioned as such, I think that Europe and the rest of the world should not have interfered in all this, remained neutral and helped families in difficulty only. Not smart of Europe to send billions of euros to Zelensky, then guns to anger Putin, look for him and then complain. We are paying for the consequences of this war (price hikes, little electricity this winter, damage to infrastructure, schools closed because of electricity, etc.) but they don't care.

 

I mean, Europe is at rock bottom. These shitty leaders have never wanted peace and are endangering their people. They prefer to set fire and blood to their countries rather than finding a less selfish solution and asking the opinion of the people because yes, we don't want this war. 

 

Putin has regressed in his politics but Zelensky is a fraud, a beggar 2.0 who asks for money and cries when he has none. If he was a real leader he would have stopped this war and given his billions to families so that they can rebuild themselves abroad, no, he continues to drag us into his bullshit until the day Putin stops laughing and presses the button that will trigger a real world war, what a loser.

I think in the long run the price would be higher if Putin gets what he wants. Let him feel how difficult it is to violate conventions and attack a country. He will cut his teeth on it. The sanctions are slowly starting to take effect and Putin will finally realize that he has maneuvered himself into a dead end.

[baddisease 17,938]

4 hours ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

If you think any Russian-backed vote (and it was) is "independent" then idk what to tell you

And NATO isn't the aggressor here.

 

It is possible for nationally oppressed people to vote for their own independence no matter how much Americans stick their fingers in their ears and scream out RUSSIA BAD.

 

Normally I agree with you but I strongly disagree here. Also NATO is always bad, even if it isn't the aggressor.

 

4 hours ago, Enchanted Mansion said:

This war is complex. Russia and Ukraine are not European and have never functioned as such, I think that Europe and the rest of the world should not have interfered in all this, remained neutral and helped families in difficulty only. Not smart of Europe to send billions of euros to Zelensky, then guns to anger Putin, look for him and then complain. We are paying for the consequences of this war (price hikes, little electricity this winter, damage to infrastructure, schools closed because of electricity, etc.) but they don't care.

 

I mean, Europe is at rock bottom. These shitty leaders have never wanted peace and are endangering their people. They prefer to set fire and blood to their countries rather than finding a less selfish solution and asking the opinion of the people because yes, we don't want this war. 

 

Putin has regressed in his politics but Zelensky is a fraud, a beggar 2.0 who asks for money and cries when he has none. If he was a real leader he would have stopped this war and given his billions to families so that they can rebuild themselves abroad, no, he continues to drag us into his bullshit until the day Putin stops laughing and presses the button that will trigger a real world war, what a loser.

 

exactly. America is involved in too many wars already. it didn't need to intervene in this one and in Ukraine AGAIN.

2 hours ago, bluechemtrails said:

I think in the long run the price would be higher if Putin gets what he wants. Let him feel how difficult it is to violate conventions and attack a country. He will cut his teeth on it. The sanctions are slowly starting to take effect and Putin will finally realize that he has maneuvered himself into a dead end.

 

Other countries have been sanctioned and it didn't actually work. I don't see it working in Russia.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,741]

7 hours ago, baddisease said:

 

It is possible for nationally oppressed people to vote for their own independence no matter how much Americans stick their fingers in their ears and scream out RUSSIA BAD.

 

Normally I agree with you but I strongly disagree here. Also NATO is always bad, even if it isn't the aggressor.

First of all, I'm not American

Second of all, not to sound cocky, but I have worked in Russia (on the FIFA WC test event and the WC itself). I was there several months. So I befriended many Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians. Whenever we talk about this type o' shit the Russians just roll their eyes when you bring up democracy and voting. Quote, "I can't explain to you why it's impossible for Putin to lose an election because it's complicated, but trust me, he can't lose." The corruption is wild. 

It's difficult for people in the west to understand that this is not a democracy and that Putin does whatever he wants. 

It's a small example, but I remember us having a fight with an FSB agent at the stadium the day before the opening match because they had put huge padlocks on the emergency exits and were manning them. My FIFA boss was like WTF but FSB said it was for "security" because Putin was attending. Those orders came from the very top of the Russian govt. They did not care that 1000s of people could potentially die in an emergency. It took many phone calls, emails and a lot of frustration to fix it.

Putin gives zero fucks about human life; even Russian lives. It's just all about power and ego. 

I'm not saying that other world leaders/countries are without fault but he is not a good person, he does not have good intentions, and he dgaf how many people (Russian or otherwise) die. And his elections are foregone conclusions. 

I don't think RUSSIA BAD (or I wouldn't've gone there), I think most Russian people are perfectly reasonable, peaceful people but their govt sucks. This is likely true of many people with shit govts. 

[Semafori 1,516]

7 hours ago, baddisease said:

 

It is possible for nationally oppressed people to vote for their own independence no matter how much Americans stick their fingers in their ears and scream out RUSSIA BAD.

 

Normally I agree with you but I strongly disagree here. Also NATO is always bad, even if it isn't the aggressor.

 

 

exactly. America is involved in too many wars already. it didn't need to intervene in this one and in Ukraine AGAIN.

 

Other countries have been sanctioned and it didn't actually work. I don't see it working in Russia.

 

the shitty takes keep flowing 

[American Whore 51,340]

11 hours ago, Enchanted Mansion said:

This war is complex. Russia and Ukraine are not European and have never functioned as such, I think that Europe and the rest of the world should not have interfered in all this, remained neutral and helped families in difficulty only. Not smart of Europe to send billions of euros to Zelensky, then guns to anger Putin, look for him and then complain. We are paying for the consequences of this war (price hikes, little electricity this winter, damage to infrastructure, schools closed because of electricity, etc.) but they don't care.

 

I mean, Europe is at rock bottom. These shitty leaders have never wanted peace and are endangering their people. They prefer to set fire and blood to their countries rather than finding a less selfish solution and asking the opinion of the people because yes, we don't want this war. 

 

Putin has regressed in his politics but Zelensky is a fraud, a beggar 2.0 who asks for money and cries when he has none. If he was a real leader he would have stopped this war and given his billions to families so that they can rebuild themselves abroad, no, he continues to drag us into his bullshit until the day Putin stops laughing and presses the button that will trigger a real world war, what a loser.

 

This isn't about being a bum and a fraud. Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked. This has been going on for a long time, they've been standing around their borders for years waiting for the call to invade. The problem is, if Russia takes Ukraine, what's stopping them from taking Latvia? Lituania? Belarus? Poland? Belarus's president would bend over backwards for Putin anyway, but the point is -- this is Hitler territory. Putin has moved women and children, families, into concentration camps. Putin has fucking shelled neighborhoods, and for what? Because you want to take over another country, so you're going to destroy it first??? What sense does that make? How is that useful at all to anyone involved? 

 

It's like this. You see a Tesla driving down the road. You decide you want to run into it. Then, when insurance has paid and the Tesla has been totalled out, you then offer the owner $1 to buy it because "I've wrecked it, the least I can do is take it off your hands :)" 

 

What Putin is trying to go after here is oil. Just like America has done in meddling in the Middle East, it's usually because of oil disputes. That's the root cause. Russia has a lot of oil deposits they can drill from, but Ukraine also has tons of oil deposits. And wheat. It'd be beneficial to Russia if Ukraine became part of Russia again and Russia could exploit the then-former Ukraine for it's oil and strengthen its economy. It's all a game of money here. It's sad because people have died because of it, but that's the root cause.

 

If Russia left Ukraine alone in the first place, things would be fine. Russia would be able to trade like they used to with other countries, they'd be able to have open tourism, etc. I can't tell if you're a Putin simp or not, but he's not some nice guy. He had all the opportunity in the world to change his mind, world leaders called him to talk him down and he decided to do what he wanted to do. Putin should be assassinated for treason -- he has fucked his country and citizens at this point, knowing full well what he was doing. Bread costs more right now because of Putin's actions. Gasoline costs more because of Putin. Getting the Soviet Union back together will not work like he thinks it will and that's kind of what it looks like his end goal might've been, but he can't even take on Ukraine, so I guess we'll see where it goes from here. Clearly nobody has the balls to stop Putin, everyone's just been giving money to Ukraine and telling them "figure it out" like a college kid out of money with bills due and their parents can afford to help. 

 

~~

 

This part isn't meant to be part of my reply to this post, but I will say, Ukraine should've been given NATO membership years ago when the Canadians went over and trained them for membership. NATO fucked up here and part of them blame should be on them. 

[baddisease 17,938]

1 hour ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

First of all, I'm not American

Second of all, not to sound cocky, but I have worked in Russia (on the FIFA WC test event and the WC itself). I was there several months. So I befriended many Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians. Whenever we talk about this type o' shit the Russians just roll their eyes when you bring up democracy and voting. Quote, "I can't explain to you why it's impossible for Putin to lose an election because it's complicated, but trust me, he can't lose." The corruption is wild. 

It's difficult for people in the west to understand that this is not a democracy and that Putin does whatever he wants. 

It's a small example, but I remember us having a fight with an FSB agent at the stadium the day before the opening match because they had put huge padlocks on the emergency exits and were manning them. My FIFA boss was like WTF but FSB said it was for "security" because Putin was attending. Those orders came from the very top of the Russian govt. They did not care that 1000s of people could potentially die in an emergency. It took many phone calls, emails and a lot of frustration to fix it.

Putin gives zero fucks about human life; even Russian lives. It's just all about power and ego. 

I'm not saying that other world leaders/countries are without fault but he is not a good person, he does not have good intentions, and he dgaf how many people (Russian or otherwise) die. And his elections are foregone conclusions. 

I don't think RUSSIA BAD (or I wouldn't've gone there), I think most Russian people are perfectly reasonable, peaceful people but their govt sucks. This is likely true of many people with shit govts. 

 

I just think people need to be more nuanced in dealing with Russia. Sorry for thinking you're an American, and that you're doing the traditional American anti-Russia stance. Also yes, Putin sucks ass.

 

42 minutes ago, Semafori said:

 

the shitty takes keep flowing 

 

hey look, someone who doesn't contribute to anything!

[Semafori 1,516]

Just now, baddisease said:

 

I just think people need to be more nuanced in dealing with Russia. Sorry for thinking you're an American, and that you're doing the traditional American anti-Russia stance.

 

 

hey look, someone who doesn't contribute to anything!

 

ironic coming from someone who wont stop bitching in this forum about this and that ,  im sure you would make a great leader by fucking complaining about everything instead of helping to fix the issues, oh wait thats what got us into this situation. I'm sorry i said us, i didn't mean you, i meant the people that are affected by this and whose safety is at stake at this very moment. 

[baddisease 17,938]

1 minute ago, Semafori said:

 

ironic coming from someone who wont stop bitching in this forum about this and that ,  im sure you would make a great leader by fucking complaining about everything instead of helping to fix the issues, oh wait thats what got us into this situation. I'm sorry i said us, i didn't mean you, i meant the people that are affected by this and whose safety is at stake at this very moment. 

 

what exactly am I supposed to do? this is a forum, where people talk.

[Semafori 1,516]

1 minute ago, baddisease said:

 

what exactly am I supposed to do? this is a forum, where people talk.

i thought my "lack of contribution" was a problem, how about you contribute instead of trying to support a senile geriatric in his imperialistic conquest because "america bad" or whatever it is that makes you come up w this shit

[baddisease 17,938]

Just now, Semafori said:

i thought my "lack of contribution" was a problem, how about you contribute instead of trying to support a senile geriatric in his imperialistic conquest because "america bad" or whatever it is that makes you come up w this shit

 

what I meant was your lack of contribution to the discussion. I'm not interested in supporting Putin or America. is that alright with you?

[sunday afternoon 1,037]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:44 PM, Hydroponic Weeds said:

 

This isn't about being a bum and a fraud. Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked. This has been going on for a long time, they've been standing around their borders for years waiting for the call to invade. The problem is, if Russia takes Ukraine, what's stopping them from taking Latvia? Lituania? Belarus? Poland? Belarus's president would bend over backwards for Putin anyway, but the point is -- this is Hitler territory. Putin has moved women and children, families, into concentration camps. Putin has fucking shelled neighborhoods, and for what? Because you want to take over another country, so you're going to destroy it first??? What sense does that make? How is that useful at all to anyone involved? 

 

It's like this. You see a Tesla driving down the road. You decide you want to run into it. Then, when insurance has paid and the Tesla has been totalled out, you then offer the owner $1 to buy it because "I've wrecked it, the least I can do is take it off your hands :)" 

 

What Putin is trying to go after here is oil. Just like America has done in meddling in the Middle East, it's usually because of oil disputes. That's the root cause. Russia has a lot of oil deposits they can drill from, but Ukraine also has tons of oil deposits. And wheat. It'd be beneficial to Russia if Ukraine became part of Russia again and Russia could exploit the then-former Ukraine for it's oil and strengthen its economy. It's all a game of money here. It's sad because people have died because of it, but that's the root cause.

 

If Russia left Ukraine alone in the first place, things would be fine. Russia would be able to trade like they used to with other countries, they'd be able to have open tourism, etc. I can't tell if you're a Putin simp or not, but he's not some nice guy. He had all the opportunity in the world to change his mind, world leaders called him to talk him down and he decided to do what he wanted to do. Putin should be assassinated for treason -- he has fucked his country and citizens at this point, knowing full well what he was doing. Bread costs more right now because of Putin's actions. Gasoline costs more because of Putin. Getting the Soviet Union back together will not work like he thinks it will and that's kind of what it looks like his end goal might've been, but he can't even take on Ukraine, so I guess we'll see where it goes from here. Clearly nobody has the balls to stop Putin, everyone's just been giving money to Ukraine and telling them "figure it out" like a college kid out of money with bills due and their parents can afford to help. 

 

~~

 

This part isn't meant to be part of my reply to this post, but I will say, Ukraine should've been given NATO membership years ago when the Canadians went over and trained them for membership. NATO fucked up here and part of them blame should be on them. 

 

 

I answer it anyway: You are right in the end. But I sincerely think that the countries should not have taken sides, that's why I say that they should have given priority to helping the reconstruction of families abroad to offer them what they need and that they feel better than continuing to put money and men into this war.

And then what to do? It's delicate. Europe took the risk of dragging all its people into this collapse, they shouldn't have. They could temper. Putin was already talking about this war in 2005 but no one listened or took his words seriously and it continues...

It's too late, the war is too well started. I know it's for shit (oil, materials...) but Ukraine should have been preparing for a very long time already, if only to protect their people. Not all Russians are pro Putin either.

[Rorman Nockwell 56,741]

This is becoming more fucked up by the second

Lukashenko has accused Ukraine of wanting to invade Belarus, Putin is bombing the shit out of Ukrainian cities in retaliation for them blowing up the bridge in Crimea and has also appointed a new commander

And Medvedev keeps writing all this inflammatory shit on Twitter which may not seem like a big deal, but he is touted as one possible replacement for Putin if/when Putin leaves office. He makes Putin seem restrained in his words and actions; Medvedev openly says shit about dropping nukes and how all Westerners are devious scumbags, etc.

He has often been criticised in Russia as lacking ambition and I feel like he would try to prove a point if he took office.

Oh yeah, Russian friends say that the Russian govt is setting up mobilisation offices at all the borders and in the major cities. It's widely suspected that if the reserves + the Belarusians that Lukashenko is mobilising can't win the war, there may be a wider mobilisation.

My friend's husband (the one I posted about ages ago who got arrested) got kicked in the head by a police officer at a protest in Moscow so they have gone to the US because otherwise it would've been really, really bad for him.

[The Siren 30,521]

1 hour ago, Rorman Nockwell said:

This is becoming more fucked up by the second

Lukashenko has accused Ukraine of wanting to invade Belarus, Putin is bombing the shit out of Ukrainian cities in retaliation for them blowing up the bridge in Crimea and has also appointed a new commander

And Medvedev keeps writing all this inflammatory shit on Twitter which may not seem like a big deal, but he is touted as one possible replacement for Putin if/when Putin leaves office. He makes Putin seem restrained in his words and actions; Medvedev openly says shit about dropping nukes and how all Westerners are devious scumbags, etc.

He has often been criticised in Russia as lacking ambition and I feel like he would try to prove a point if he took office.

Oh yeah, Russian friends say that the Russian govt is setting up mobilisation offices at all the borders and in the major cities. It's widely suspected that if the reserves + the Belarusians that Lukashenko is mobilising can't win the war, there may be a wider mobilisation.

My friend's husband (the one I posted about ages ago who got arrested) got kicked in the head by a police officer at a protest in Moscow so they have gone to the US because otherwise it would've been really, really bad for him.

I have zero words 

[Semafori 1,516]

the russian idiots bombed a german consulate in ukraine