Israel's genocide of Palestinians and war on the Middle East

[American Whore 48,661]

8 minutes ago, Surf Noir said:

@American Whore not gonna lie it somewhat seems like you're trying to say that because people in the middle east are more likely to be homophobic/the middle east itself is homophobic, that it doesn't really matter if their countries are being bombed and destroyed and that their people are being tortured and killed, and i personally find that quite fucked up, you can't automatically assume that everyone in the middle east or palestine hate gay people, especially when we know that a lot of the victims are under 18, they are CHILDREN

 

and, honestly, regardless of whatever views people in a certain region of the world may possibly hold, i don't believe anybody deserves to die or go through immense traumas because they may have different views that we may consider incorrect or backwards, i don't agree with homophobia, and i do believe it's an incorrect viewpoint and it is harmful, but people have opportunities to grow and to change, entire nations and regions of the world have opportunities to grow and to change, but regardless of whatever viewpoints one part of the world may hold, or whatever viewpoints an individual may hold, i do not believe anybody deserves to be killed or tortured, or for entire countries to be completely torn about, i just think it's really messed up to insinuate that violence doesn't matter or that it's somehow different because it happens in a place in the world that may have backwards views, you could honestly say the same for most other parts of the word, even the USA, since the southern US is enforcing very strict laws on abortion, to the point where women who simply have miscarriages are being charged, should we say that anything tragic happening in that region of the world doesn't matter? give me a fucking break

 

When I say I think they're both wrong this is what I mean.

 

Palestine (more specifically, Hamas) shouldn't be doing the fucked up shit they do. Meaning, kidnapping people, killing LGBT people, etc.

Israel shouldn't be killing mass amounts of people in Palestine or bombing them and killing civilians or burning houses, whatever else they're doing

they BOTH suck here. if one held an "am i the asshole" post on reddit, the correct answer would be ESH.

i don't think what either of them are doing is okay and they're both disgusting, horrible evil fucking places in the world. do we blame civilians? clearly, no. but we should hold their governments accountable (and finally, the ICC is doing just that. will we ever see anything fixed by it? doubtful - they did the same thing for Putin a year or so ago after they started trying to take Ukraine.)

 

But when one does something to the other, it makes sense that the other will fight back. And if they fight back, the other will fight again too. it's a never ending cycle.

 

Parts of the southern US should be defunded in ways that encourage progressiveness (obviously, not important things like healthcare or education.) but to me, the middle east will never "matter" to me in the sense that it's somewhere I'll never be able to go to majority of the countries there and find out about their cultures firsthand. Some middle eastern countries are more progressive than others, but I'd still rather not risk it. That doesn't mean I want a bunch of kids in these countries to die - quite the opposite! I'd rather see them all have chances to be themselves. I'd apply the same logic that I apply here. I want people to be able to live their lives how they want to, without oppression of any kind. Unfortunately, those freedoms don't always exist all over the world and i know that.

[Mer 54,952]

You lose an argument when you say “innocent people shouldn’t be killed, but…”

[Dark Angel 193,402]

28 minutes ago, American Whore said:

 

When I say I think they're both wrong this is what I mean.

 

Palestine (more specifically, Hamas) shouldn't be doing the fucked up shit they do. Meaning, kidnapping people, killing LGBT people, etc.

Israel shouldn't be killing mass amounts of people in Palestine or bombing them and killing civilians or burning houses, whatever else they're doing

they BOTH suck here. if one held an "am i the asshole" post on reddit, the correct answer would be ESH.

i don't think what either of them are doing is okay and they're both disgusting, horrible evil fucking places in the world. do we blame civilians? clearly, no. but we should hold their governments accountable (and finally, the ICC is doing just that. will we ever see anything fixed by it? doubtful - they did the same thing for Putin a year or so ago after they started trying to take Ukraine.)

 

But when one does something to the other, it makes sense that the other will fight back. And if they fight back, the other will fight again too. it's a never ending cycle.

 

Parts of the southern US should be defunded in ways that encourage progressiveness (obviously, not important things like healthcare or education.) but to me, the middle east will never "matter" to me in the sense that it's somewhere I'll never be able to go to majority of the countries there and find out about their cultures firsthand. Some middle eastern countries are more progressive than others, but I'd still rather not risk it. That doesn't mean I want a bunch of kids in these countries to die - quite the opposite! I'd rather see them all have chances to be themselves. I'd apply the same logic that I apply here. I want people to be able to live their lives how they want to, without oppression of any kind. Unfortunately, those freedoms don't always exist all over the world and i know that.

 

what we find bothersome is the fact that you've made it a point several times that palestine is a homophobic country, and the way you bring it up makes it sound like you somehow think they're more deserving of genocide because of the fact, or that we shouldn't care

 

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for a pro-LGBTQ+ website, you'd think you'd all see how evil they both are (israel and hamas/palestine). i am not going to stand up for a country that hates me and people like me. do i feel bad for those innocent lives being lost in palestine? yes. do i feel bad for their government, who doesn't give a fuck about their own people which is clear by their own statements that it's not the responsibility of Hamas to protect civilians, but the responsibility of the UN. i don't give a single fuck about their government and i hope something happens to change it there. gay people shouldn't be killed for being gay. but yassss homophobia ftw! 

 

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why aren't we angry that palestine has a history of violence, discrimination, and murder of LGBTQ+ people?

 

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continue being evil by dickriding a country that hates and displays violence towards gays 

 

nobody's supporting palestine because of what views on gay people they may have (and not everyone in the middle east is homophobic, even if their governments are or even if more people there are, not everybody is) people are in support of palestine because INNOCENT people are being killed by the thousands, palestine is being bombed and destroyed, it DOES NOT MATTER what viewpoints are prevalent there, nobody deserves to DIE, or to be TORTURED, or to have their home DESTROYED, whether or not palestine as a whole is homophobic is not relevant whatsoever right now

 

also i somewhat feel like your viewpoint of palestine being super homophobic by default is a bit... discriminatory, like, yes, the middle east isn't known for being very LGBT-friendly, but not everyone who lives in middle eastern countries hates gay people, like, how is any of that even relevant right now? and you'll find homophobic people, politicians, and laws literally everywhere, it just sounds like you're trying to single in on an area of the world that is already going through enough and it's very strange

 

oh, and one last thing, the actions of hamas do NOT represent palestine as a whole, AND INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND CHILDREN SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BARE THE EXTREME CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE DID, would it be right for me to say that everyone who lives in israel is in support of what the israeli government is doing? would it be right for me to say that every jew is a zionist? of course not, so why the hell are you generalizing an entire country like this?

 

might i remind you once again that backwards, offensive, and harmful viewpoints can be found and displayed literally everywhere on the planet, not just in palestine

[Mer 54,952]

@American Whore do you know how many gay Muslims there are in this world? Do they not also deserve peace? Should that peace not extend to Palestinians as a whole? 
 

Currently in Palestine, a gay person is 100% more likely to be killed by an airstrike than by homophobic civilians. 

[never2heaven 6,215]

im absolutely appalled reading this stream of thought. 

 

palestine is not wrong. hamas is wrong, but you absolutely cannot fucking group palestine as a whole into hamas. with all due respect to my lgbtq friends, when you are living in an oppressed and occupied state where death is nigh at any point, gay rights is definitely not the highest thing on the agenda, and that should be a testament as to how unsafe palestine has been for palestinians for YEARS.

 

i think it is a very westernised view to think “But how would i be treated there?” when in reality if you were there, you being gay would not be at the forefront of your mind, being unlawfully arrested and abused at an israeli prison, or killed for no other reason than you are in palestine, would be.

[Embach 26,587]

Talking about the hostages - correct me if I'm wrong - I remember that around November-December 2023, Hamas offered Israel to return the hostages, not all of them, but a certain number of them. But what did the Israeli prime minister Netanyahu did? He didn't even want the hostages back and refused the offer, there was even a video in the news how some of the parents of the hostages ran to the government building and were very angry that Netanyahu refused the offer. He doesn't even give a shit about his own people, he keeps using hostage situation as an excuse to bomb Gaza. Israel could've had many others ways to react to the hostage situation but they chose the worst option possible and they made the current situation even worse and worse by bombing and killing innocent and already helpless Gaza people (which majority of them are CHILDREN, even INFANTS!!!!) intensively without of any kind of mercy for almost 8 months straight. Almost 40 000 Palestinians have been killed, they have no access to electricity, water and food. All the buildings are destroyed and the shelters are being bombed as well. Even Israel takes advantage of the humanitarian aid given to the Palestinians, for example like in March, Palestinians were given food and other supplies (like flour and something like that), they all were running for their lives to grab the supplies as fast as they could but Israel took advantage and bombed them. Media outlets described that as "an incident" but we know it was malicious and intentional. Israel even killed World Kitchen food aid staff members, who were Polish and Australians, in airstrikes. It's a definition of a modern genocide and Israel does that all for what? To defend themselves as a country that illegally occupied another country whose civilians they are killing right now. I know that "it's a war and countries have to defend themselves in a war" but this isn't even "defending", they're commiting a genocide. Palestine can't even defend themselves against a huge military backed by the United States. I don't really understand why the huge countries like the US and UK are supporting Israel by giving them bombs to kill thousands of innocent civilians. Instead of a ceasefire, they offer bombs. I don't understand what do they accomplish with that. I saw a list of countries that do not recognize Palestine and I noticed that most of these countries used to be colonizers in the past. Probably that tells the reason. Big businesses like McDonalds and Starbucks supporting or giving money to Israel doesn't make sense to me as well. What have they to do with it, they're not the government?

 

I know that many people have said that already here but being pro-Palestine isn't definitely anti-semitic. Religion and origin have nothing to do with the actions of a government.

 

Don't forget that before October 7th, Israel had conducted series of airstrikes on Gaza in May 2023, leaving over a hundred of Palestinians wounded and dead. There were also similar cases in 2022, 2021, 2019, 2018 and so on, all the way back to 1948.

 

And talking about the LGBTQ+ rights in the Middle East, I know that there are many countries there where homosexuality is illegal and gay people there are oppressed but let's not pretend that the US is innocent, there's a whole list of acts of violence against LGBTQ+ people commited in America, so the goverment should focus on their problems first before pointing out what's wrong outside their country and what's not. That being said, it's very sad that in the 21st century there are still countries where LGBTQ+ rights doesn't exist or there are still violent acts committed against them. That goes for any country. This just doesn't sit right with me because LGBTQ+ rights are human rights!!!!!

 

I don't know what else I've got to say. I feel like everything I said now is controversial but isn't it the sad truth? The situation really pains me when I think about it, because the whole time we were arguing here, dozens and dozens of Palestinians were probably killed during that time. There is nothing we can really do but raise awareness and donate money. All eyes on Rafah. Free Palestine!!!!!

[Nahime 427]

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[Coloringbooks 13,256]

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The baby in the stroller… this is wild