Norman Fucking Rockwell - Pre-Release Thread

[Vertimus 8,947]

Also, as a quick aside, Change doesn’t strike me as political. GBA isn’t a bad song and WTWWAWWKD delivers a message about ignoring war and suffering and the political climate and just going on about your pleasure and keeping on to hope, it’s strictly hedonistic and isn’t in anyway PC

 

‘Change’ IS political because it discusses the poisoning of the air and water by nuclear attack or another agent of war and the need for personal change that then might be reflected in the larger culture, as in the philosophy that if everyone took personal responsibility for their own faults and troubles, the entire culture would be transformed.

 

My impression of WTWWATWKD is not that it was hedonistic, but rather that, in the face of an all-out war like WW II, people, in their recognized and acknowledged helplessness in the face of it, felt that dancing was their only means of fighting back, by continuing to enjoy themselves, or at least to pretend to—to use dancing as a show of hope, resistance, fortitude, will and the human spirit.

 

That is EXACTLY what many of the British did during WW II, they continued to hold and attend concerts, poetry readings, the theater, etc., even though the Blitz was on and buildings were blowing up around them night and day, day and night.

[Vertimus 8,947]

By the way, I do think, as an individual and Democrat, LDR does share many contemporary social and political concerns and does broadly care about women as women as well as individuals, and feminism generally.

 

So I don’t think she’s a complete hypocrite. But in the face of the onslaught of vicious attacks, I think she’s just buckled and given in, saying and doing what she feels they want to hear and see so they leave her alone.

 

She has also received praise from liberals like Bruce Springsteen, who included her in a recent list of ‘Desert Island Artists’ someone asked him for. Obviously, she’s been supported and praised by Father John Misty, also a publicly-avowed liberal-leaning artist (and personal friend of hers) and other younger musicians.

[bigspender 8,345]

y'all can't even blame her for waiting. she releases three stand-alone singles, which she verbally says they're STAND ALONE and y'all still be thinking they're on nfr. ofc she's been kind of shady but she's a busy woman. y'all only think its that bad because you listen to peoples conspiracies or get hyped up out of nowhere and then get let down when you don't get the album. just be patient and lets not slander her on her own fan site for reasons that are just invalid.

[Vertimus 8,947]

y'all can't even blame her for waiting. she releases three stand-alone singles, which she verbally says they're STAND ALONE and y'all still be thinking they're on nfr.

 

I have always questioned whether MAC, VB and Hope will be on NFR. She has made contrary statements about them, calling them “end of summer jams,” “ stand-alone singles” and her “favorites from the album.” So what can one conclude? Those comments are part of the mess of this era.

 

We have heard them dozens or hundreds of times, we know them by heart, by this late date—and the even later-date of the album’s eventual release—, it makes little sense for them to be included.

[Flowerbomb 65,555]

In a radio show she literally said VB is on NFR. And at the Apple event she said HTD was also on the album. Let's not start confusing people again.

[GeminiLanaFan 45,841]

y'all can't even blame her for waiting. she releases three stand-alone singles, which she verbally says they're STAND ALONE and y'all still be thinking they're on nfr.

 

I have always questioned whether MAC, VB and Hope will be on NFR. She has made contrary statements about them, calling them “end of summer jams,” “ stand-alone singles” and her “favorites from the album.” So what can one conclude? Those comments are part of the mess of this era.

 

We have heard them dozens or hundreds of times, we know them by heart, by this late date—and the even later-date of the album’s eventual release—, it makes little sense for them to be included.

She never said they were stand alone. 

The October Single (which is probably is Hope) was said to "stand on its own", because it was more serious in tone (she did say before that she had fun doing songs with Jack and that it did reflect in the songs). The Hope press release, in January, said that all 3 singles  were "fan tracks" and that the first lead was coming. So, the three songs will be on NFR, unless she cut them out, which wasn't the case in January. 

[Future Jazz 8,944]

I think she totally is part of the tapid liberal consensus that most American celebrities of her range share. They are liberal enough to blame Trump voters for being the underprivileged people falling for populism, not Liberal enough to bring real depth into their perspectives, or look toward places outside America or the Western world, let alone doing it in a way that wouldn't be blatantly neocolonial, giving millions to make them akin to the West but making sure people forget their donations account for 1% of their wealth, and that they support the worst corporations on a daily basis, when they're not advertizing for them. Liberal enough to 'tolerate' or include, to a certain extent, minorities in their content, but not Liberal enough to understand that they won't bring peace in Palestine. Liberal enough to leave aside antifeminist rhetoric, not Liberal enough to stop fueling institutions that are harming minorities, for instance Hillsong but that's only the visible type of ones. To say that climate change is real like 95% of people know but not to take any further action or stop flying private jets two hundred times a year. She's not the only one to do that and I don't think it would be reasonable to ask her to do otherwise, because she's just part of it all, but the media or people acting as if she was taking a stand in ANY WAY by alluding to her disliking for Trump need to stop.

 

Plus her submissive position in her 2010 songs was not an interpretation. It was clearly there, not only in the voice, in the videos, in the overall attitude, it was in the words. It's striking when you discover new songs from that time, like Bad Boy. I'm not saying it's wrong though, it's a fact

[Vertimus 8,947]

The October Single (which is probably is Hope) was said to "stand on its own", because it was more serious in tone (she did say before that she had fun doing songs with Jack and that it did reflect in the songs). The Hope press release, in January, said that all 3 singles were "fan tracks" and that the first lead was coming. So, the three songs will be on NFR, unless she cut them out, which wasn't the case in January.

 

“Fan tracks” is yet another description or designation, adding to the confusion. These various designations are probably just spontaneous conversational descriptions that have varied as a result OF being conversational.

 

I do think at one point LDR or a team member, like Ben, referred to them as “stand-alone singles.”

[Wynwood 19,966]

i swear if there are songs like gba and bpbp on nfr im unstanning

[Vertimus 8,947]

Plus her submissive position in her 2010 songs was not an interpretation. It was clearly there, not only in the voice, in the videos, in the overall attitude, it was in the words. It's striking when you discover new songs from that time, like Bad Boy. I'm not saying it's wrong though, it's a fact

 

I didn’t say some of her lyrics were or were not submissive in fact, only that they were interpreted as such by many in the media and celebrity culture, and then decried as such.

 

While I think there IS a submissive attitude in some of her songs (like ‘Blue Jeans’), there’s also a feeling of simply being overwhelmed by the experience of love, sexual attraction, and her lover in many songs, which is not something only women experience. And she has every right to be true to her own experience, whatever it is, and write about it.

 

However, in ‘Live or Die,’ it’s LDR (or the female narrator) who is totally calling the shots, dominating the man, pushing him around and eventually betraying him. I think it’s one of her greatest songs and as far from PC as one could get. And she’s also giddily slaughtering people and loving every minute of it. Talk about female empowerment.

 

In ‘Summertime Sadness’ she’s celebrating her lover and life, and despite her passion and willingness to die happily in the moment, there’s nothing overtly submissive or masochistic in the lyrics.

 

And in ‘American,’ the narrator is not submissive, but in an apparently happy, ‘equal’ relationship with her male lover.

 

So there’s some truth to the claim that she’s written about being submissive to her male partner, but it’s not the only truth or the only fact about her lyrics from that era.

[Future Jazz 8,944]

Plus her submissive position in her 2010 songs was not an interpretation. It was clearly there, not only in the voice, in the videos, in the overall attitude, it was in the words. It's striking when you discover new songs from that time, like Bad Boy. I'm not saying it's wrong though, it's a fact

 

I didn’t say some of her lyrics were or were not submissive in fact, only that they were interpreted as such by many in the media and celebrity culture, and then decried as such.

 

While I think there IS a submissive attitude in some of her songs (like ‘Blue Jeans’), there’s also a feeling of simply being overwhelmed by the experience of love, sexual attraction, and her lover in many songs, which is not something only women experience. And she has every right to be true to her own experience, whatever it is, and write about it.

 

However, in ‘Live or Die,’ it’s LDR (or the female narrator) who is totally calling the shots, dominating the man, pushing him around and eventually betraying him. I think it’s one of her greatest songs and as far from PC as one could get. And she’s also giddily slaughtering people and loving every minute of it. Talk about female empowerment.

 

In ‘Summertime Sadness’ she’s celebrating her lover and life, and despite her passion and willingness to die happily in the moment, there’s nothing overtly submissive or masochistic in the lyrics.

 

And in ‘American,’ the narrator is not submissive, but in an apparently happy, ‘equal’ relationship with her male lover.

 

So there’s some truth to the claim that she’s written about being submissive to her male partner, but it’s not the only truth or the only fact about her lyrics from that era.

 

If the songs are submissive, they can't be 'interpreted' as submissive, they can only be viewed as such, ie there is no bias, and they were - and rightly

 

About the empowerment thing, it's a matter of proportions. I could enumerate at least fifty songs in which she's acting submissive, to a certain degree of course, sometimes very much, sometimes less. But she never was so 'emancipated' in any song as she was submissive in others.

 

And I don't think these songs really convey empowerment. When she played the femme fatale role she wasn't getting out of her submissive character, it's totally coherent with that wannabe fifties attitude. Come on, we know the femme fatale myth is a patriarchical construction made up so that men could fantasize over it. So if today women want to subvert it and turn it into a non-patriarchal attitude, I shouldn't have any problem with that, but Lana clearly wasn't doing that in her songs.

 

plus "baby I can't do it alone, cause you're the one that I want", "would you kill for me? would you die for me?", "I know what you've done and I can be your alibi" yeah super empowered, much more than the man in the song. I don't see any equality in American either

[Vertimus 8,947]

If the songs are submissive, they can't be 'interpreted' as submissive, they can only be viewed as such, ie there is no bias, and they were - and rightly

 

About the empowerment thing, it's a matter of proportions. I could enumerate at least fifty songs in which she's acting submissive, to a certain degree of course, sometimes very much, sometimes less. But she never was so 'emancipated' in any song as she was submissive in others.

 

And I don't think these songs really convey empowerment. When she played the femme fatale role she wasn't getting out of her submissive character, it's totally coherent with that wannabe fifties attitude. Come on, we know the femme fatale myth is a patriarchical construction made up so that men could fantasize over it. So if today women want to subvert it and turn it into a non-patriarchal attitude, I shouldn't have any problem with that, but Lana clearly wasn't doing that in her songs.

 

plus "baby I can't do it alone, cause you're the one that I want", "would you kill for me? would you die for me?", "I know what you've done and I can be your alibi" yeah super empowered, much more than the man in the song. I don't see any equality in American either

I think you’re taking it wayyyyy too far and simply being too doctrinaire. You seem to be seeking, desiring or demanding some perfect, absolutist, almost militant feminist messages in her lyrics, and you’re never going to find that in her or any female songwriter, unless that artist absolutely IS a feminist militant. And there no doubt are some.

 

When you look at the post-50s era of pop music songwriting and recording by women, whether it’s Carole King, Joan Baez, Marianne Faithfull, Nico, the Supremes, Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Patti Smith, Bette Midler, Melanie, Joan Armatrading, Debbie Harry, Linda Ronstadt, Stevie Nicks, Kate Bush, the three Roche sisters, Diana Ross, Christine McVie, Anne and Nancy Wilson, Lene Lovich, Rachel Sweet, Siouxie Sioux, Pat Benatar, Annie Lennox, Madonna and on to Fiona Apple, Natalie Merchant, Tori Amos, Shirley Manson, etc., you find a fair amount of submissiveness as well as vulnerability and hurt, because those are human CONSTANTS, not necessarily FEMALE constants. Men have written about those same human constants. (Look at a song like ‘The Devil In Me’ by Anderson East, which is about how his overwhelming desire for a woman leads him to drugs and drink and suffering, and yet it’s still a beautiful experience for him. There are hundreds of songs by men about the devastating experience of falling in love.)

 

AND, in those female artists’ you also find fight, challenge, resistance, clarity, the desire for freedom, self-awareness, and rejection of romantic partners, male or female, whose behavior was domineering or otherwise not up to standard or simply unacceptable.

 

It would be pretty condescending to say to those diverse individuals, “You weren’t thinking for yourself, ever, or able to, all your life you’ve under the yoke of the patriarchy!”

 

In ‘Live or Die,’ well, the song is clearly not REALLY about female empowerment, it’s about a psychopathic couple, one female, one male, who are spree killing and loving every minute of it, and in which the female is dominant. That’s what makes it so great—it’s clearly role-playing on LDR’s part and not an actual, genuine reflection of who she is in any sense, and she pulls it off masterfully.

[Future Jazz 8,944]

I think you’re taking it wayyyyy too far and simply being too doctrinaire. You seem to be seeking, desiring or demanding some perfect, absolutist, almost militant feminist messages in her lyrics, and you’re never going to find that in her or any female songwriter, unless that artist absolutely IS a feminist militant. And there no doubt are some.

 

When you look at the post-50s era of pop music songwriting and recording by women, whether it’s Carole King, Joan Baez, Marianne Faithfull, Nico, the Supremes, Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Patti Smith, Bette Midler, Joan Armatrading, Debbie Harry, Anne and Nancy Wilson, Lene Lovich, Rachel Sweet, Pat Benatar, Diana Ross, Madonna and on to Fiona Apple, Natalie Merchant, Tori Amos etc., you find a fair amount of submissiveness as well as vulnerability and hurt, because those are human CONSTANTS, not necessarily FEMALE constants. Men have written about those same human constants.

 

AND, in those female artists’ you also find fight, challenge, resistance, clarity, the desire for freedom, self-awareness, and rejection of romantic partners, male or female, whose behavior was domineering or otherwise not up to standard or simply unacceptable.

 

In ‘Live or Die,’ well, the song is clearly not REALLY about female empowerment, it’s about a psychopathic couple, one female, one male, who are spree killing and loving every minute of it. That’s what makes it so great. It’s clearly role-playing on LDR’s part and not an actual, genuine reflection of who she is.

 

don't pretend you don't know all-pervasive male domination characterizes our societies and can be found in the type of submissiveness she shows in her songs more than in others. Such submissiveness is not a human constant, it's part of the culture and more precisely part of that vintage subculture she used in 2010. And I'm not saying Live or Die isn't good but once again, it can't be used for debunking her submissiveness

 

I'm not asking her to be a feminist militant in any way, I'm asking for her to be considered what she is, that is to say NOT an activist, nor somebody who's politically committed, and i'm not saying that not being such a person is wrong

[poetic jess 2,323]

 

Long rant ahead. I come in peace.. I promise!!

 

I’m a longtime lurker and used to be a member of the original message board and I feel like sharing my opinion.

 

We are fucking spoiled.

 

We have unlimited tracks. Songs that we aren’t supposed to have and that are worthy of standing alone. We have 6 albums... or 7/8.. May Jailer etc??? I can’t keep up anymore. We can make at least 5 sub category albums with quality material and I know some of us have already stitched stuff like this together.

 

Let the woman live. Jesus. Who knows what’s going on with her. Did we forget that some dude tried to kidnap her a year ago? That can be pretty terrifying no?

 

I feel like she has been pretty generous thus far. There are other artists that rarely interact with their fans. This is an emotionally exhausting career x100 - and yeah she chose it - but we choose our emotionally exhausting careers also. Any of you work retail? We turn on the charm for the annoying as fuck customers that supply us a paycheck right? Let's not be that "hehe job security right??" customer. Imagine your needy customers bothering you on your days off? Yikes. We need vacations and time to unwind and so does she.

 

I’ve never thought of Lana as a “pop star” that puts an album out every other year, but I guess that’s what has happened so far. She hasn't been completely inactive. She just dropped Doin Time & ya'll still aren't happy. Can you believe there are other fan bases that have to wait 10 years for a new album (Robyn), 6-7 years (Fiona Apple). RiRi I need that Anti follow up.....

 

Trust me. I want another album. I can’t fucking wait. I drop everything I’m doing to listen to new ig snippets. I check this place everyday hoping for news. I want a release date to look forward to also, but let’s not take it too far. Badgering her team, calling her lazy, saying she doesn’t give a fuck about us, and some of the other criticism is embarrassing. Saying we are going to stop supporting her.. really? I keep reading that her music has helped some of you during hard times (me too) and now it's our turn to help her in a way by respecting her silence on NFR. There has to be a good reason & the album will hopefully come out eventually I seriously hope she pulls a Beyonce and surprises us one day.

 

I get some of it is throwing shade & joking - shout out to whoever made the Lula Del Roe joke haha. I'm constantly cackling at some of the shit you all say!! I'm a fellow Lana Phag and I do live for the sarcastic drama. I'm also not delusional fan that has her on pedestal. LFL was disappointing and the first album I did not buy on vinyl ☹ The last music video I visually loved was Shades Of Cool......

 

AKA, BTD & Paradise are fucking solid. I love most of Ultra & Honeymoon - but LFL has like 3 songs I still listen to & the whole era was kinda just meh. VB & MAC are flawless. IMBSFBSH is so sweet and heartbreaking. HTD... omg. And the snippets like Cinnamon & HIAB... fuck. I've been listening to IYC a lot the last few days. This era has the potential to produce another solid album & I’d prefer that over another LFL. So yeah, take all the time you need bitch!!

 

In the meantime.. rediscover some of the HUNDREDS of unreleased songs we have. Or better yet, discover other artists that can fill that Lana void temporarily. Send me a DM if you want recommendations of other bad ass female artists that have helped me just as much as Lana has.

You really wrote all this...... after you get a thorough answer that acknowledges all these points and explains perfectly why we’re frustrated a page or two back? I can’t even.

[MJA 738]

y'all can't even blame her for waiting. she releases three stand-alone singles, which she verbally says they're STAND ALONE and y'all still be thinking they're on nfr. ofc she's been kind of shady but she's a busy woman. y'all only think its that bad because you listen to peoples conspiracies or get hyped up out of nowhere and then get let down when you don't get the album. just be patient and lets not slander her on her own fan site for reasons that are just invalid.

 

I agree with this. I see a lot of outrage on LB because of things people created in their head.

 

"Lana is doing a folk album!"

*Lana releases a non-folk track*

LB response: She said she was doing a folk album! I'm unstanning!

 

I think there is lots that we are not privy too and it makes sense considering all the leaks she has had in the past.

 

Ben said the album is coming this year. It's June. I'm sure we'll have a single before end of summer and an album after that. 

[Vertimus 8,947]

 

don't pretend you don't know all-pervasive male domination characterizes our societies and can be found in the type of submissiveness she shows in her songs more than in others. Such submissiveness is not a human constant, it's part of the culture and more precisely part of that vintage subculture she used in 2010. And I'm not saying Live or Die isn't good but once again, it can't be used for debunking her submissiveness

 

It’s not a matter of pretending. Yes, has Western society been dominated by men during the last 2,000 years? Yes. Who built the contemporary, ‘modern’ world most of us live in, benefit from and enjoy, and which has spread across the globe? Western European men primarily, with the direct help and support of women and people from other cultures. In 1870 and even significantly later, men in parts of America were still fighting bears and mountain lions to protect their wives, female family members and children. The idea of male oppression at every turn is not one I buy into.

[cherriesinthespring 5,486]

We really gonna hit 2k on a scrapped album huh

[Future Jazz 8,944]

 

don't pretend you don't know all-pervasive male domination characterizes our societies and can be found in the type of submissiveness she shows in her songs more than in others. Such submissiveness is not a human constant, it's part of the culture and more precisely part of that vintage subculture she used in 2010. And I'm not saying Live or Die isn't good but once again, it can't be used for debunking her submissiveness

 

It’s not a matter of pretending. Yes, has Western society been dominated by men during the last 2,000 years? Yes. Who built the contemporary, ‘modern’ world most of us live in, benefit from and enjoy, and which has spread across the globe? Western European men primarily, with the direct help and support of women and people from other cultures. In 1870 and even significantly later, men in parts of America were still fighting bears and mountain lions to protect their wives, female family members and children. The idea of male oppression at every turn is not one I buy into.

what the hell does it have to do with male domination? oh so just because the Nazis suffered from extreme conditions in the Russian winter during WWII means they were guilty of no oppression? it's the same thing here. Overall male domination is not something to trust in or not to, it's a fact, just as scientific as global warming, except if you choose to dismiss social sciences, which would be a shame. Just because men have built things - and why have women not? do you really think that they could do what men did, while being dominated? and do you say all things that have been created are good? is humans putting themselves and LIFE in general in jeopardy good? the Western culture is not the ultimate stage of civilization as people in the 19th century used to think, others never were subordonate to it, and we don't even have the full consequences of it yet, though I don't doubt they are going to come within a century.

 

sorry for going so off-topic though

 

PS society is still dominated by men and some people are doing their best to fight that whether you want it or not

[Chiunzhan 1,472]

She deleted a post on instagram! what was it??????

[Veinsineon 70,690]

Jesus. Don’t you all have college essays you could be writing instead?